Another Unsavory Obama Associate a Communist

independent_thinker2002 · 07-21-08, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

I'm of the belief that we can suggest our political affiliation and if we are honest and knowledgeable or if we are honest and our political views tend toward the extreme on every subject, only then can our political affiliations be accurately labeled by ourselves.

But I often find people who, for an example, call themselves conservative, but their posts suggest they are Conservatively Islamist rather than Conservative using the American standard.

And then there are some who just plainly attempt to deceive the readership by calling themselves Independent or Conservative.

Ahhhh, if I had a dollar for every time someone made a play on my name.

galenrox · 07-21-08, 11:09 PM

I think it's wrong to suggest that Obama shouldn't be President because he has communist supporters, it's just like when people tried to hold Ron Paul for having white power support, it in and of itself means nothing. The larger question is why do these communists support Obama? And that's where the issue with Obama lies, his economic plan relies on an acceptance of the premise that government distribution is superior to market distribution. Increasing capital gains taxes, corporate taxes, taxes on the wealthy, while still even after their own obscenely optimistic estimations as to the revenue effects of these tax hikes still expecting to increase the deficit due to his massive increases in spending, that appeals to people of a generally socialist world view. We should not choose to focus on the superfluous over the substantive, there are real problems with Obama we shouldn't focus on the asinine stuff.

disneydude · 07-21-08, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jallman

Well, we are in a microcosm of people who feel passionately about the topics we discuss as evidenced by the fact that we spend part of our leisure time actually discussing the issues with virtual strangers.

Virtual strangers or virtual friends?

bhkad · 07-22-08, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iriemon

Every so often I am reminded of how much certain posters depend on us to help them blend in. Posters who claim to represent American views and yet immediately label anyone who criticizes US foreign policies as terrorist sympathizers or who disagree with right wing laissez-faire economics as "communists".

And then I am reminded of how they take shoddy evidence as "fact" and misrepresent them to suite their right wing, neocon, laissez-faire agenda.

Case in point.

Here are the "facts" the article cited in the OP and adopted by certain posters as true "prove" that Mr. Graham-Felsen is a communist:

Quote:

Who They Are: Sam Graham-Felsen

Obama certainly attracts a colorful bunch of supporters. One is his official campaign blogger Sam Graham-Felsen, who has written for publications like The Nation and Socialist Viewpoint; the latter helpfully offers a page explaining Who We Are:

The Socialist Workers Organization was formed to advance the revolutionary Marxist political program in the United States. Our members are long time active participants in the socialist and labor movements. We agree with Karl Marx that society is divided into social classes whose interests are irreconcilable.

The capitalist ruling class of the United States exercises a virtual dictatorship not only over American society, but also over the entire world. This capitalist class rule is the basic cause of the poverty, wars, and the degradation of the natural environment. […]

To break the stranglehold of the capitalist minority over all of society, workers need their own political institutions. Workers and their unions need to break definitively with Democrats, Republicans, and other capitalist parties, all of which are dedicated to preserving and advancing the capitalist system of social, economic and political injustice.

Socialism, the ownership and democratic control of the means of production by the working class, and the removal of profit from the system of production, is the aim of Socialist Viewpoint, which reflects the political views of the Socialist Workers Organization.

This ideology has been tried more than once. Governments based on it killed over 100,000,000 of their own people in the course of the twentieth century, enslaving those who survived.

There's no need for Graham-Felsen to follow the part about breaking with the Democrat Party — not now that it is on the verge of being overrun by Marxists.

Graham-Felsen has also written for the Harvard Crimson, where he encouraged ultra-left anti-American zealot Noam Chomsky to tone down his repugnant rhetoric enough to gain wider acceptance. You can see why he would affix himself to Obama, who follows the strategy of smoothly saying nothing while surreptitiously advancing the same ideology our nuclear arsenal was built to keep at bay.

Moonbattery: Who They Are: Sam Graham-Felsen

If someone knowingly gave a terrorist advice on how to kill more people wouldn't he be said to actively or tacitly endorse his actions or ideology?

Of course!

Graham-Felsen gave Chomsky his 'advice' because he endorses Chomsky's views.

Let's also look at Obama's socialist and communist connections in general.

Google this:

"Marxists/Socialists/Communists for Obama"

And this is what you will find.

And Obama's $845 Billion Global Poverty Bill to cut poverty in OTHER COUNTRIES, should be enough to convince the most stubborn among us of Obama's Socialist bent.

No?

How about Obama's support of Bernie Sanders of Vermont who said we need a better way to re-distribute wealth in America. Giving commentary is syndicated right wing talk show host, Michael Savage:

Quote:

SANDERS [audio clip]: We have got to address the reality that, in the United States today, we have by far the most unfair distribution of wealth and income of any major industrialized country --

SAVAGE: Kiss my behind, you psycho.

SANDERS [audio clip]: -- and that we have a moral obligation --

SAVAGE: Screw you, you jealous loser.

SANDERS [audio clip]: -- and we have a growing gap between the rich and the poor --

SAVAGE: Go to hell. How's that? Go to hell. I worked all my life for what I have and you'll have to kill me to get it from me, you rat. You know the thing about socialists that kills me is they're just jealous losers. They want the government to take away from those who made it on their own and give it to the schmucks or the idiots, or the lazy. Listen to this. It gets even worse. It's ugly. It's disgusting. Listen to this dirty socialist in clip two.

SANDERS [audio clip]: How often do we hear people say, "USA, number one"? And I share that sentiment. Unfortunately, in terms of childhood poverty in the industrialized world, we are also number one --

SAVAGE: Oh God!

SANDERS [audio clip]: -- and that is not being number one.

SAVAGE: Go to hell. How about going to hell? Get him out. Get him out of my headphones. Now, how did child poverty become an issue all of a sudden? The Democrats won by a hair and, suddenly, all of the old issues are back. Now, we're back to childhood poverty. Two weeks ago, we heard that -- before the elections, three months ago -- that children were overweight and fat from eating too much McDonald's; they were dying of diabetes from being little piglets. Now, we hear about childhood poverty, childhood poverty. Listen to Bernie Sanders, socialist bum, in clip three.

SANDERS [audio clip]: In 1999, the British government -- six years later, child poverty in the United Kingdom had been cut by 20 percent. Similar progress, as I understand it, has been made in Ireland.

SAVAGE: Ooh, wow. So, they've cured child poverty in the UK by -- what? Giving houses to Muslim immigrants and teaching the children how to set off a suicide bomb on an underground [subway train]? Poverty's over? All right, listen to clip four now from this lunatic.

SANDERS [audio clip]: Unfortunately, at the same time that Britain was taking important steps to reduce childhood poverty, in the United States, childhood poverty increased by about 12 percent.

SAVAGE: Right, that's the exact number of illegal aliens who invaded the country: 12 percent of the population. So, that's where the poverty came from, we imported child poverty.

[...]

SAVAGE: There is a solution, Bernie, to curing the childhood poverty: deport the 12 percent of children who shouldn't have been here to begin with because their parents came here illegally, and poof, there goes childhood poverty.

Media Matters - Savage on Sen. Bernie Sanders: "a dirty socialist" who should "go to hell"

Here's Obama supporting the Socialist Sanders.

YouTube - Bernie and Barack Address Overflow Crowd

bhkad · 07-22-08, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002

Ahhhh, if I had a dollar for every time someone made a play on my name.

I never mentioned you or your name.

jallman · 07-22-08, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

I never mentioned you or your name.

I was thinking that him using paranoia as a descriptor was akin to the a pot calling a kettle when he made that post.

obvious Child · 07-22-08, 12:15 AM

The ironic thing is, we may need the authoritarian tendencies that come with Communism to get anything of value done in this country. Congress is a death trap for good ideas.

bhkad · 07-22-08, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galenrox

I think it's wrong to suggest that Obama shouldn't be President because he has communist supporters, it's just like when people tried to hold Ron Paul for having white power support, it in and of itself means nothing. The larger question is why do these communists support Obama? And that's where the issue with Obama lies, his economic plan relies on an acceptance of the premise that government distribution is superior to market distribution. Increasing capital gains taxes, corporate taxes, taxes on the wealthy, while still even after their own obscenely optimistic estimations as to the revenue effects of these tax hikes still expecting to increase the deficit due to his massive increases in spending, that appeals to people of a generally socialist world view. We should not choose to focus on the superfluous over the substantive, there are real problems with Obama we shouldn't focus on the asinine stuff.

There are ears that hear only certain messages. Obama has something that rightfully bothers most everyone.

His associations with criminals, terrorists, bigots and others. His questionable Muslim background. His lack of experience. His flip-flopping. His willingness to have committed the US to a losing course in Iraq. The elitism. The 400 (more or fewer???) undisclosed bloggers on his payroll. His wife's comments. His indications of a lack of patriotism. The unresolved questions regarding his Gay sex, crack cocaine use and a connection to the murder of Obama's alleged Gay lover in Chicago. And, of course, his willingness to re-distribute your wealth to create worldwide Communism but with Obama as the head of the US version of the Kremlin.

Yes, there's something about Obama to offend most everyone who loves America.

Quote:

Obama mentor identified as communist
Frank Marshall Davis 'discussed American imperialism, colonialism, exploitation'
Posted: February 19, 2008
9:27 pm Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily

The mysterious "Frank" cited as a friend and adviser by Democratic president contender Barack Obama while he was growing up in Hawaii has been identified as Frank Marshall Davis, a member of the old Moscow-controlled Communist Party USA.

The identification comes from Cliff Kincaid in his column, "Obama's Communist Mentor," which was made available on the Accuracy in Media website.

"Let's challenge the liberal media to report on this," he wrote in his column. "Will they have the honesty and integrity to do so?"

Kincaid, who earlier reported on Obama's pending plan to ship $845 billion overseas to battle "global poverty" as evidence of his socialist leanings, said the newly revealed connection is even more worrisome.

"Obama's communist connection adds to mounting public concern about a candidate who has come out of virtually nowhere, with a brief U.S. Senate legislative record, to become the Democratic Party frontrunner for the U.S. presidency," he wrote.

In Obama's book, "Dreams From My Father," he repeatedly refers to his friend and adviser as "Frank."

"The reason is apparent: Davis was a known communist who belonged to a party subservient to the Soviet Union. In fact, the 1951 report of the Commission on Subversive Activities to the Legislature of the Territory of Hawaii identified him as a CPUSA member. What's more, anti-communist congressional committees, including the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), accused Davis of involvement in several Communist front organizations," Kincaid said.

Kincaid noted Obama has admitted attending "social conferences" and seeing Marxist literature. "But he ridicules the charge of being a 'hard-core academic Marxist,' which was made by his colorful and outspoken 2004 U.S. Senate opponent, Republican Alan Keyes."

He described the link as "ominous."

"Decades ago, the CPUSA had tens of thousands of members, some of them covert agents who had penetrated the U.S. government. It received secret subsidies from the old Soviet Union," Kincaid wrote.

He noted even Obama describes "Frank" has having "some modest notoriety once."

Kincaid notes that a history professor in Houston reported that Davis "befriended" a family whose son was named Barack Obama, "who retracing the steps of Davis eventually decamped to Chicago."

"It was in Chicago that Obama became a 'community organizer' and came into contact with more far-left political forces, including the Democratic Socialists of America…," Kincaid wrote. "The SDS laid siege to college campuses across America in the 1960s, mostly in order to protest the Vietnam War, and spawned the terrorist Weather Underground organization."

He also reported Kathryn Takara, a professor of Interdisciplinary Studies at the University of Hawaii at Manoa, confirmed that Davis is the "Frank" in Obama's book.

She did her dissertation on Davis, and wrote that he brought, "an acute sense of race relations and class struggle throughout America and the world" and that he openly discussed subjects such as American imperialism, colonialism and exploitation, according to AIM.

Obama mentor identified as communist

I wish people would actually research their choices before they help create a groundswell of support for these candidates.

It's like, "Let's all do this! It sounds fun." But then they discover the ugly truths long after they have helped lead others down the same dead-end road.

How do you feel about $845 Billion in U.S. tax dollars to help cut poverty in other countries?

$845 Billion Dollar Obama Bill at Sunflower Desert

Global Communism.

jallman · 07-22-08, 12:44 AM

That's one road I can't go down with you, bkhad. I stopped short when the road marker said "Worldnet Daily".

bhkad · 07-22-08, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jallman

That's one road I can't go down with you, bkhad. I stopped short when the road marker said "Worldnet Daily".

I'm sorry that you judge books by their cover. But I still admire you.

If you will at least check the sources hyperlinked within the text of the WND story you may find yourself making an exception for WND's supposed lack of journalistic integrity, at least this one time.

I ran across the Communist mentor story elsewhere and before now and I'm sure it checks out. And there is no doubt about the $845 Billion Obama Global Poverty bill, either.

07-21-08, 11:09 PM	#162
galenrox ROCK AND ROLL MASTER Join Date: Jun 2005 Last Online: 07-02-09 10:17 PM Location: Chicago, Il Posts: 11,321 Thanks: 535 Thanked 1,109 Times in 777 Posts Lean: Conservative Gender: Total Awards: 3	Re: Another Unsavory Obama Associate a Communist I think it's wrong to suggest that Obama shouldn't be President because he has communist supporters, it's just like when people tried to hold Ron Paul for having white power support, it in and of itself means nothing. The larger question is why do these communists support Obama? And that's where the issue with Obama lies, his economic plan relies on an acceptance of the premise that government distribution is superior to market distribution. Increasing capital gains taxes, corporate taxes, taxes on the wealthy, while still even after their own obscenely optimistic estimations as to the revenue effects of these tax hikes still expecting to increase the deficit due to his massive increases in spending, that appeals to people of a generally socialist world view. We should not choose to focus on the superfluous over the substantive, there are real problems with Obama we shouldn't focus on the asinine stuff.
	__________________ "Men cannot escape being governed. Either they must govern themselves or they must submit to being governed by others." - Theodore Roosevelt

07-22-08, 12:15 AM	#167
obvious Child Aiming Anti-Stupid Gun Join Date: Apr 2008 Last Online: 07-01-09 03:21 AM Location: Land of the Anti-Stupid Posts: 5,695 Thanks: 302 Thanked 1,034 Times in 756 Posts	Re: Another Unsavory Obama Associate a Communist The ironic thing is, we may need the authoritarian tendencies that come with Communism to get anything of value done in this country. Congress is a death trap for good ideas.
	__________________ "DPRK is the only country in the world that has turned intransigent sabre-rattling into a viable economic model." - blackkodiak

07-22-08, 12:44 AM	#169
jallman Nagasaki 2.0 Dungeon Master Join Date: Jul 2005 Last Online: Today 01:24 AM Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 24,902 Thanks: 6,964 Thanked 6,831 Times in 4,147 Posts Lean: Centrist Gender:	Re: Another Unsavory Obama Associate a Communist That's one road I can't go down with you, bkhad. I stopped short when the road marker said "Worldnet Daily".
	__________________ The Prime Rule of discussing politics: ethical paradoxes will be generated. Learn to live with it or back out now.

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