Democrats release new McCain ad. - Page 3

Redress · 06-07-08, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

Hi, you're new here, so I'm going to be nice and assume you just haven't read things.

McCain isn't "My candidate". I'm not a fan, nor am I supporting McCain.

Nor am I "upset" by the Ad. I think its an excellent ad to be honest.

What I'm laughing at is the hypocracy of many of the liberals who tout out the "fear mongering" card when republicans also say factual things such as "Hamas endorsed Obama", "Obama would like to have talks with terrorist supporters like Ahmadinejad" stating that they're trying to imply Obama is a terrorist.

I agree with you hautey on those things being Fear mongering type things. But there have been times in the past where Republican ad's or statements that may be "fear" motivated speak facts that point out something legitimate but people on the left try to paint it that they're trying to "Convince" people that if we vote in a liberal we'll get hit, or that obama is a terrorist in the subtext of the message.

Sigh, I hate the whole Hamas endorsed Obama thing, it sounds bad, and is innacurate.

Source: FactCheck.org: Did Hamas endorse Barack Obama?

Quote:

Yousef: We don't mind. Actually, we like Mr. Obama, and we hope he will [inaudible] the election. I do believe he is like John Kennedy, a great man with great principles, and he has a vision to change America, to make it in a position to lead the world community, but not with domination and arrogance.
......
Whether this constitutes a political endorsement is debatable, as Yousef is in no position to vote for Obama himself, nor did he recommend that others vote for him. And endorsements are usually sought-after and greatly publicized, whereas Obama has in no way welcomed Yousef's supposed endorsement

A member of hamas saying that he likes Obama is not the same thing as Hamas the organization endorsing Obama for president. It's spinning it to present it that way, just as the add in this thread subtely(though it is hard to use that word with that add) spins McCain's lobbiests problem to suggest that McCain is likely to support things he probably does not.

Redress · 06-07-08, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlbqOwl

It is the 'over the top in its imagery and suggestions' that makes the ad dishonest. Most people will not analyze the facts stated in the ad and evaluate those on their own merits--they will see only the insinuations and orchestrated implications and will not respond intellectually but with the a knee jerk negative emotional response that is fully intended by the ad maker.

I am not arguing the point there. It is over the top. With that horrid horror music playing, it's almost a parody of itself. I also think that if this is the worst it gets, this will be a pretty mild election. This is nothing compared to the swiftboat adds as an example.

Hatuey · 06-07-08, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

What I'm laughing at is the hypocracy of many of the liberals who tout out the "fear mongering" card when republicans also say factual things such as "Hamas endorsed Obama", "Obama would like to have talks with terrorist supporters like Ahmadinejad" stating that they're trying to imply Obama is a terrorist.

This would have a pound of relevancy if it wasn't for the fact that they are both examples of guilty by association and miscontextualizing. The McCain ad is based on ACTUAL associations and what they mean in terms of McCain's own's stance.Example : Hamas endorses Obama. Obama knows nobody in Hamas and cares little about whether or not Hamas endorses him. McCain opposes lobbyists and plans to fight them because of their unethical practices. McCain however has hired well known lobbyists who are all guilty of such unethical practices. Do you see the difference yet? The Obama guilty by association fallacy is like claiming that because I've met a few of the living members of the BPSD(Black Panther Party For Self Defense), I'm a Marxist. The second is like saying that I am hypocrite for saying people shouldn't engage in illegal activity but then turning around and smoking weed in my basement.

Quote:

I agree with you hautey on those things being Fear mongering type things. But there have been times in the past where Republican ad's or statements that may be "fear" motivated speak facts that point out something legitimate but people on the left try to paint it that they're trying to "Convince" people that if we vote in a liberal we'll get hit, or that obama is a terrorist in the subtext of the message.

Can you show how this ad is fear motivated? It's motivated by McCain's hypocrisy on this issue.

AlbqOwl · 06-07-08, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redress

I am not arguing the point there. It is over the top. With that horrid horror music playing, it's almost a parody of itself. I also think that if this is the worst it gets, this will be a pretty mild election. This is nothing compared to the swiftboat adds as an example.

Even some of the Swiftboat ads were on target, however, and it was fair game for people who were actually there to point out the discrepancies in Kerry's stories. For instance take Kerry's line on how sitting in his boat in a hostile Cambodia on Christmas Eve was seared seared SEARED into his memory. Those who were there felt it appropriate to point out that this story was in fact a lie as Kerry was never in Cambodia anytime in that decade. Likewise it was fair game to take Hillary to task for a manufactured story about ducking sniper fire when she arrived in Afghanistan. Those who were there knew better and it was appropriate for them to tell it like it was. It was made appropriate because Kerry himself made it a big deal part of why we should elect him President. He put the issue into play, not the Swift Boaters.

Politicians have to realize that the most minute aspects of their lives are going to be closely scrutinized. Personally I think their private lives, family, etc. should be off limits UNLESS it is pertinent to their overall record and how they might be expected to govern. And it is always pertinent when the candidate himself makes those things pertinent.

There is absolutely wrong with scrutiny of McCain's or Obama's associations. It is dishonst to link those to nonexistent relationships, however, or distort the implications of those associations.

independent_thinker2002 · 06-07-08, 03:48 PM

What exactly is this ad supposed to make us afraid of?

Rightwing86 · 06-07-08, 10:14 PM

LOL I love the scary music, and the bad facial expressions, not to mention the dark backgrounds... but seriously, EACH PARTY needs to get above this fear mongering bull****. MCcain does not support dictators that want to rape and kill Americans abroad, just as Obama does not support the ideas of his wacked out preacher. C'mon people both republicans and democrats, lets start looking at real policies here, lets back up our claims with voting records etc. Lets not say Obama wants to enslave white people for Africans or say MCcain wants to bomb Iran because he made a improper joke, and that he wants to go to war for 100 years because that MAKES SENSE and he is too old and dumb to realize that 100 years of war would be retarded.. I mean w t f is wrong with you people! It makes me sick. Get over this stupid non issue crap! It's so frustrating to see people bicker over stupid **** and make up lies and spin things horrendously, and It's BOTH PARTIES, im sick of people like Navypride saying "ALL DEMOCRATS WANt america to lose the war." and i'm sick of the damn democrats saying "ALL RePUblicans are fear mongers who want to support leaders who love to support ruthless dictators!" I mean just STOP!

Hatuey · 06-07-08, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rightwing86;10576
39949

LOL I love the scary music, and the bad facial expressions, not to mention the dark backgrounds... but seriously, EACH PARTY needs to get above this fear mongering bull****.

You're the second person to talk about 'fear mongering'. Can you show how saying that McCain hires the very people he claims to oppose is 'fear mongering'?

Quote:

MCcain does not support dictators that want to rape and kill Americans abroad, just as Obama does not support the ideas of his wacked out preacher.

The ad didn't say he did. What you just did is called a strawman. Which is exatcly what Zyphlin did. The ad makes reference to McCain's stance on lobbyists and how he has been in a very vocal opposition to their unethical practices(like lobbying on behalf of dictators) yet he is hiring these very people to run his campaign.

Quote:

C'mon people both republicans and democrats, lets start looking at real policies here, lets back up our claims with voting records etc. Lets not say Obama wants to enslave white people for Africans or say MCcain wants to bomb Iran because he made a improper joke, and that he wants to go to war for 100 years because that MAKES SENSE and he is too old and dumb to realize that 100 years of war would be retarded.. I mean w t f is wrong with you people! It makes me sick. Get over this stupid non issue crap! It's so frustrating to see people bicker over stupid **** and make up lies and spin things horrendously, and It's BOTH PARTIES, im sick of people like Navypride saying "ALL DEMOCRATS WANt america to lose the war." and i'm sick of the damn democrats saying "ALL RePUblicans are fear mongers who want to support leaders who love to support ruthless dictators!" I mean just STOP!

This is a huge misdirection made to appeal to some patriotic sentiment. McCain has made his opposition to lobbyists an issue. That is what the ad addresses. When you're ready to talk about that instead of what you wish the ad said then you're welcome to come back.

mikhail · 06-07-08, 11:20 PM

this aint a wise ad or tactic the republicans are much better at playing this game for a start and also most Americans dont know who these people are.

Redress · 06-07-08, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatuey

You're the second person to talk about 'fear mongering'. Can you show how saying that McCain hires the very people he claims to oppose is 'fear mongering'?

If the add had stopped at showing all the lobbyists that McCain has working for him, you would be 100 % right(and it should, it would be less controversial, and would not generate any potential negative backlash). Unfortunately, the add does go on, and makes a point of who the lobbyists had worked for, with scary images and music. None of that was really germaine to the point that McCain hires a bunch of lobbyists.

Rightwing86 · 06-07-08, 11:49 PM

Thank you Redress for addressing what i obviously was talking about in my post, poor little Hatuey seemed to not get that part.