John1234

(This is long but i think if you can make it through the first 6-7 paragraphs you might find the point this leads to, to be interesting.)

Just before 911 i had zero interest in politics.
In my opinion that made me a typical American.
I do not believe that most Americans cared much.
I only identified the 2 main parties based on their economic views which from my perspective were (Help the super rich and this will trickle down) vs (Help the poor).
I also had an awareness that the 2 parties were split on abortion.

Just after 911, i started to really listen to Bush and watched or read anything I could get my hands on.
To be frank, i became obsessed with it. (I think many Americans did.)
The first thing I noticed after 911 is that our media was only giving 1 perspective.
So i started talking to people from all over the world through the internet and getting all the foreign news sources i knew how to.

I came to many conclusions such as the African documents we presented to the UN were likely fake, There were no WMD in Iraq, we were not there to "save the Iraqi people", and much more.
I was not wrong on 1 single issue.

I took up an anti Iraq Invasion stance long before any politician and prior to the actual Invasion.
I think the Dixie Chicks were the only other people on the planet that shared my views. (I am aware there were probably others, but there were not many and i had no knowledge of them.)
I presented my views to my social outlets.
I lost friends, was called a traitor, was threatened with violence, and was told to move to Canada.
This really got me going because at this point i saw so much in common with the mind set of our people compared to the mind set of the people of Germany prior to WW2 that i could not even sleep at night.
I watched in horror for years as we plunged straight down on the moral ladder.

I had never really heard of a "Liberal" before. I honestly just thought a Liberal was a homosexual. (Note that i only looked upon the parties as Republican and Democrat.) I know that makes me look moronic, but hey its true lol.
After a few years I started to see voices say the same things i had been saying for years about everything that has occurred since 911.
These voices were called "Liberals".

What i would like to know is where the heck these "Liberals" were just after 911 when i was standing alone. Completely alone in this country full of people rushing to war against an innocent nation.
Completely alone in this country where to voice your opinion was a very very dangerous thing to do.
Nothing i say today has changed one bit from what i said just before our Invasion. Yet when i said these things i was told i am not an American because i have a different opinion.
Now what i have to say to all these Liberals, is shame on every one of you.
If you see the truth now, why could you not see it any sooner?
Why could you not get off your lazy butts and read international news instead of riding Bush and our puppet 1 sided special interest media.

I've been watching both parties and how they interact with the terms "Liberal" and "Conservative" very closely for some time now.
And this is what bothers me...

It is totally illogical that people split down the party lines the way they do.
It makes no sense that if one is gay they must be anti war.
It makes no sense that if one is pro war they must be pro tax breaks to the rich and only the rich.
It makes no sense that if one is anti war they must be in favor of stem cell, abortion, and so on.

I am noticing that conservatives who say they do know that the Iraq invasion was terribly wrong, still find some way to justify supporting McCain. (Some better than others).
And to be honest i now think Liberals are even worse in the sense of simply following "Political Correctness".
None of these anti war Liberals existed when i was in the trenches fighting to have reason be heard.
Now that their party stands for anti war... they are all over the place.
And what bothers me the most about Liberals is that they generally want to pull out of Iraq due to our own selfish interests. (The economy and lost soldiers).
Well if this war was a just war to begin with, then the lost soldiers were lost with honor and out of dire need for this Nation.
Since the Liberals all supported the war initially, does this mean they only are against it now because it costs money and because of a weak stomach?

The morally correct reason to oppose the war are the 1 million dead Iraqi's most of which were completely innocent.
When you go to war you lose the moral right to think about self interests.
All that matters is whether or not the war is for a just and honorable cause.
And if it is a just and honest war, no amount of loss is too great to win.
If it was a just and honest war, i myself would be willing to risk my life for my Country.

I am tired of selfish people and i am tired of political correctness.
And there is no logic what so ever involved when our Nation splits so perfectly on every issue.
People are following like sheep in a heard and not thinking for themselves.
And i see little difference in the way our people rally behind one political party
or another and the way people rally behind a NFL sports team.
They pick their team and simply stick with it for all it stands for.
Throwing their own belief and value system right out the window.

Out of everything, what bothers me the most is the idea that one must be pro invasion and pro global conquest in order to be Christian in this country.
It makes me sick because it goes against everything Jesus tried to teach us.
When political correctness reaches our religion, there is definitely a huge problem. And when that political correctness causes the people of that religion to turn against the god they pray to, it reaches far beyond sickness and into the realm of utter insanity.
Most of the lessons of Christianity teach us how to treat others. Not how to build a global empire.
The bible even teaches us to stay out of politics altogether. Yet we have preachers running for President and the war factions largest support group are Christians.

We are demonstrating the characteristics of herd animals more so than human beings.
Maybe this can all be summed up in the sense that people value 1 certain issue the most and so in order to get progress on their main issue they join a party that does not agree with the rest of their issues.
But I don't think so.

I believe it is much more than that.
I think the true division line is between those that view how we treat others as the most important vs those that believe our own self interests are the most important.
And the intriguing part of this is that these 2 groups do not follow party lines.

I've also noticed some really weird things since i came to this forum.
You can reason someone to death and prove your point beyond any possible doubt, yet people will stick to their party on every issue and will not yield to reason.
I've noticed this on both sides.
I notice it the most from the conservatives, but i concede that this is probably just because i am so against our Nazi like mentality towards other nations.
In reality i am sure that i am just as guilty.
But the thing is, i am not a democrat and most definitely not a liberal.
I would never consider blindly supporting my choice of candidate on all issues just because he hits home with my most important issue.

When it comes to freedom of speech, expression, and thought... I believe we are the most free Nation on earth.
But we as a people are surrendering that freedom to Political Correctness.
In our daily lives, in our politics, and even in our religion.
If we do not open our eyes to this soon, we will wake up and find that freedom of speech no longer exists.
And those Liberals that support freedom of Speech so strongly, will be just as guilty as everyone else.

MARifleman

I don't think that political choices have anything to do with "sports teams". many people support a party because they agree with the majority of what the Party stands for. if you are pro life, pro taxcuts, pro gun but anti war you will probably still vote for a republican because the majority of your views are matched by republicans. unless you are dead set against the war, feel we should be out yesterday, then you would have to support a democratic candidate but take your losses on the other issues.

John1234

I respect your opinion as valid but i think there is much more to it than that.
From what i see most people accept the full package of their party aside from minor things. Too many agree on issues that would not seem to go hand in hand.
And we also have the tremendous pressure each group places on people to accept the full package.
The political correctness was so intense that it created violence towards anyone that did not agree. Even extreme hostility towards Allied and even Nato nations that did not agree.
The combination of these things with a leader that has an agenda for war is dangerous.
And while we have it under control to an extent, if or when we are attacked again things could get out of control real quickly.
I just wish i had a solution to offer. I'm merely pointing it out.

Rightwing86

Interesting post. Though i disagree. I lean towards the right. But i do not vote party over preference. I don't think many Americans do either. Most Americans i have met are very easy to talk to if they have a disagreement. I talk to people on a daily basis about our differences on the war, abortion, gay rights etc. Most people are calm, collective, and thoughtful of the other persons thoughts/beliefs. That is what I see. I do meet the occasional your wrong bla bla. just shrug those people off. I disagree with you on most of your post about the war, it does not mean we can not have a normal peaceful discussion about our differences. It's very simple, and common at that. Thanks for your post.

John1234

Right now, today, yes i agree with you.
I was referring to that time period after the attack but before the Invasion.
When people refused to go to concerts or buy albums from entertainers that voiced the very same opinions that 50% have today.
When the Media talk shows were shouting for deporting citizens that were against the Iraq Invasion.
When the Media was suggesting it might legally be treason to be against the war. And having in length serious discussion on how there must be a way to get those type people.
Well today 50% of America are those type people.

I don't think many would deny political correctness exists.
My worry is that if we are attacked again in a significant way things would get completely out of control if we do not become more aware of why these things are happening.
Most people, maybe not this forum, but most just think "the Muslims are out to kill us. We must get them before they get us".
I have a family member that firmly believes our best option is to completely nuke the entire middle east.
I guarantee you that if a national poll was conducted that at least 10% would vote this way. But what about the day after 911?

Note: that i am not saying we'd nuke the middle east. I was using it as an example of hate and fear.