Lies - Page 3

FluffyNinja · 02-28-08, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niftydrifty

cool. post all the lies you can find. all of them. number them. each specific lie gets one count, no matter who's telling it. post a link to the lie and a refutation for each.

as for quality, we'll try to see about that, too.

Lies told about McCain and Obama.

LIE #1: John McCain isn’t a loyal Republican.

LIE #2: McCain represents a betrayal and rejection of the Reagan coalition.

LIE #3: John McCain organized “The Gang of Fourteen” to Block the Confirmation of Conservative Judges.

LIE #4: John McCain supports higher taxes.

LIE #5: McCain is an advocate of “amnesty” and “open borders.”

LIE #6: McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform represents a devastating assault on free speech.

The first 6 lies above were propagated by the Romney Campaign and the Liberal media and are refuted by Michael Medved on the site below:
Discovery Institute - Article Database - Six Big Lies About John McCain

LIE #7 - Here’s a front-page article published by the N.Y. Times on 2/21/2008 - unsubstantiated
The Times was forced to publish a correction on 2/26/2008 but still didn’t tell the complete truth.

For McCain, Self-Confidence on Ethics Poses Its Own Risk

WASHINGTON — Early in Senator John McCain’s first run for the White House eight years ago, waves of anxiety swept through his small circle of advisers.

A female lobbyist had been turning up with him at fund-raisers, visiting his offices and accompanying him on a client’s corporate jet. Convinced the relationship had become romantic, some of his top advisers intervened to protect the candidate from himself — instructing staff members to block the woman’s access, privately warning her away and repeatedly confronting him, several people involved in the campaign said on the condition of anonymity.

Full article w/ partial correction: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/us...=1&oref=slogin

Correction: February 26, 2008
A front-page article on Feb. 21 about Senator John McCain’s record on lobbying and ethics, including his role in the Keating Five case, described incorrectly the reprimand delivered to three other members of the Senate in 1991 for intervening with government regulators on behalf of Charles H. Keating Jr. The Senate Ethics Committee rebuked the three senators for improper behavior, but under a parliamentary agreement the full Senate did not censure them or take any other vote on the matter.

LIE #8 = Internet bloggers have recently produced a list of US Senators who voted to give full Social Security Benefits to all illegal immigrant workers with McCain at the top of the list. The story does not give the full details of the bill. This lie can be found on Urban Legends Reference Pages as well as all over the World Wide Web. While I don’t count Snopes as an investigative authority - it is a good source for locating recently circulating stories about candidates.

LIE#9 - Here is a quote published on the website VoteVets.org | The Voice of America’s 21st Century Patriots attributed to McCain. It has been taken completely out of context and reveal only snippets of the actual interview.

McCain: "[M]ake it a hundred" years in Iraq and "that would be fine with me." [Derry, New Hampshire Town Hall meeting, 1/3/08]

LIE #10 - Here’s another one from the same website above(same circumstances):

McCain on how long troops may remain in Iraq: “A thousand years. A million years. Ten million years. It depends on the arrangement we have with the Iraqi government.” [Associated Press, 1/04/08]

Here a few lines from McCain’s campaign website concerning recent attacks. I’ll have many more lies to post a bit later - it’s dinner time!

“National Liberal Democratic groups are rolling out their strategy for the General Election. It appears that the politics of "hope and change" are euphemisms for even more vicious attacks than we've ever seen before. All the usual liberal suspects; MoveOn.org, the Democratic National Committee, The New York Times and others are adding to the efforts under way by VoteVets and are plotting to spend over $20 million to smear John McCain. A line has been drawn in the sand.
The smoke and mirrors of the democrats' rhetoric betray the negative campaign tactics of their confederates. Now the shadowy 527 groups allied with them are spending unchecked millions. For them, it's not about what's best, it's all about winning. It is a sad day in our county's history that it has come to this. “ John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President

niftydrifty · 02-28-08, 10:36 PM

niftydrifty · 02-28-08, 10:37 PM

#42 On O'Reilly, Newsmax's Kessler misrepresented Obama and Clinton vote on FISA, Edwards statement on "global war on terror"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711140009?f=s_search

#43 Russert misleadingly cropped Obama comment to claim he wasn't "firmly wedded against the war"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711110004?f=s_search

#44 Citing NPR story, Wash. Post's Kornblut falsely claimed Obama was "unresponsive to a voter in a campaign stop"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711080009?f=s_search

#45 Krauthammer falsely claimed Obama's Iran policy "takes all aggression, all threats, everything serious off the table"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711050003?f=s_search

#46 After teasing story by saying "Obama makes a little girl cry," Fox News' Kelly acknowledged it was not true

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711020007?f=s_search

#47 NY Times quotes 2005 blog post claiming Obama compared himself to Christ

http://mediamatters.org/items/200710300009?f=s_search

#48 Media figures call Obama supporters' behavior "creepy," compare them to Hare Krishna and Manson followers

http://mediamatters.org/items/200802080014?f=s_search

#49 MSNBC's Shuster falsely suggested Mark Penn first brought up Obama drug use issue on Hardball

http://mediamatters.org/items/200802070002?f=s_search

Alter falsely asserted Clinton's "chief strategist" "raised" Obama's drug use

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801180014?f=s_search

#50 Wash. Times editorial cropped Obama quote to falsely claim he argued against protecting "babies who survive botched late-term abortions"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200802050010?f=s_search

#51 Wash. Times left out Obama statements that undermine its claim that "Obama '04 at Odds with Obama '08"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200802010011?f=s_search

#52 Once again, NBC's Myers ignored Obama's specific response countering suggestion that Rezko "may have essentially subsidized" Obama's home purchase

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801300012?f=s_search

UPI baselessly asserted that Obama paid "substantially lower than market value" for Rezko property

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801250006?f=s_search

NBC's Myers ignored key facts in reporting on controversy over Obama's home purchase

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801290015?f=s_search

#53 Carlson -- who has said Obama "seems like kind of a wuss" and "sounds like a pothead" -- now claims he "give[s] the guy a pass at every turn"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801290014?f=s_search

Citing "Clintonian answer," Carlson found another reason to call Obama "a wuss"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711290001?f=s_search

#54 Morning Joe hosts launched misleading attacks on Obama over state Senate votes

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801250005?f=s_search

#55 Beck falsely claimed Dem candidates have not supported striking writers

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801250004?f=s_search

#56 Media falsely characterized Bill Clinton, Obama as having "lashed out," "fire[d] back angrily" at reporters

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801240005?f=s_search

#57 Chicago Tribune religion writer ignores Obama's comments urging "respect and dignity" for Muslims

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801240004?f=s_search

#58 On Hannity & Colmes, Rev. Peterson compared Obama's church to KKK

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801230010?f=s_search

#59 AP debate "Analysis" ignored Obama's response to allegations he refused to support sexual abuse bill

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801230009?f=s_search

#60 Imus and Carlson invoke Chavez to smear Dem presidential candidates

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801220009?f=s_search

#61 Fineman falsely asserted Obama "admitt[ed] he can't manage his way out of a paper bag" during Las Vegas debate

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801160014?f=s_search

On MSNBC, Corke and Cillizza falsely claimed NV paper quoted Obama admitting he lacks "experience" to "run a bureaucracy" and "be a CEO"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801150017?f=s_search

#62 Shelby Steele on Michelle Obama's 60 Minutes comments: She was "facilitating her race's manipulation of the American mainstream"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801160005?f=s_search

#63 Columnist Prelutsky: Obama "sort of reminds me of David Duke"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801160004?f=s_search

#64 Investor's Business Daily: "Would Obama put African tribal or family interests ahead of U.S. interests?"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801160003?f=s_search

#65 NY Times cited anonymous "critics" claiming Obama camp "raising the specter of violence ... to raise Senator Obama to mythic stature"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801150020?f=s_search

#66 Carlson: "many black churches are basically political organizations"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801150019?f=s_search

#67 NewsBusters' Motley: Ineligibility for presidency "could reasonably be extended to Obama"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801150013?f=s_search

#68 Kurtz misrepresented Obama's 2004 remark on Iraq war stance

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801140002?f=s_search

#69 ABC's Ross gave misleading account of Obama statements in order to assert inconsistency

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801110016?f=s_search

#70 Savage smeared Obama with false name, "Barack Madrassas Obama"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801110013?f=s_search

Syndicated columnist Mackenzie falsely claimed Obama was educated in a "madrassa school"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801110009?f=s_search

Conservative radio host Cunningham falsely referred to "Barack Mohammed Hussein Obama," advanced madrassa falsehood

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801100003?f=s_search

NewsMax's Ponte falsely claimed Obama's "thinking was shaped by childhood in a Muslim madrassah in Islamic Indonesia"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801070005?f=s_search

Daniel Pipes relied on disputed LA Times article to revive Obama-Muslim falsehood

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801020004?f=s_search

Wash. Post's Bacon reported only Obama's denials of madrassa smear, not media debunkings

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711290005?f=s_search

#71 Echoing Limbaugh, Cal Thomas falsely claimed Obama has "no legislation he can point to that has his name on it"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801110003?f=s_search

Limbaugh falsely asserted that "you won't find a Senate bill with [Obama's] name on it"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801090009?f=s_search

#72 On MSNBC, Jonah Goldberg claimed "you can draw a line" from Mussolini to Clinton and Obama

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801100016?f=s_search

#73 CNN aired Kenyan saying of some Americans about Obama, "[T]hey don't want someone who is closer to Islamic"; failed to note Obama is Christian

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801100011?f=s_search

Dobbs falsely claimed that Obama's "relationship with his faith [was] heretofore ... unexpressed"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711070008?f=s_search

#74 Matthews didn't challenge DeLay's claim that Obama will "surrender the war on terror"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801100002?f=s_search

#75 NY Post column: Obama "is like a woman," Clinton "has long been accused of androgyny," Edwards is "a cute 8-year-old boy"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801080002?f=s_search

#76 During NH debate, ABC's Gibson characterized Obama's Pakistan position as "essentially the Bush doctrine," ignoring Bush contradictions

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801080001?f=s_search

#77 FoxNews.com headline: "Obama: No Cash From Denzel, Spike, Motown, Despite Oprah Backing"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801070002?f=s_search

#78 During NH debate, co-moderator Spradling "revved up the Republican attack machine" on Obama

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801060005?f=s_search

#79 O'Reilly falsely claimed "Obama has dodged every tough interview"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801040005?f=s_search

#80 Hannity on Obama's pastor: "It seems like he's supporting a segregated church"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200712200007?f=s_search

#81 Kurtz asserted little media attention to Wash. Post report on Obama's PAC, but he omitted reported problem with article

http://mediamatters.org/items/200712200001?f=s_search

#82 Fox News' Father Morris, MacCallum ascribed political motives to "Merry Christmas" in Obama ad

http://mediamatters.org/items/200712190011?f=s_search

#83 Ignoring key bill, Wash. Post's Milbank attempted to refute Obama's statement that he "expanded health care in Illinois"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200712170003?f=s_search

#84 Wash. Post's Givhan suggested political motivation for Obama's choice of tie colors

http://mediamatters.org/items/200712140007?f=s_search

#85 Sun-Times omitted key information in suggesting Obama conflict of interest

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711290009?f=s_search

#86 Wash. Post's Hiatt distorted Obama's education remarks, touted McCain's "principles"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711260004?f=s_search

#87 Fox News' Hill claimed Obama's reaction to Novak's thinly sourced column means he "could have something to hide"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711200001?f=s_search

#88 CNN ignored McCain's missed vote while highlighting Obama's missed vote

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711190002?f=s_search

CNN reported on Obama's missed Senate votes, but ignored McCain's

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711020015?f=s_search

#89 LA Times claimed Obama was "less than definitive" on human rights vs. national security, but omitted his specific statements

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711160010?f=s_search

#90 Ignoring Obama's actual statements, CNN and Fox News claimed Obama "waffled" on driver's licenses

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711160008?f=s_search

GMA, NY Sun, Politico cut out part of Obama sentence in claiming he "stumbled" on driver's license question

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711160003?f=s_search

#91 Malveaux misrepresented Obama's statements about Clinton on Meet the Press

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711160006?f=s_search

#92 On CNN, Gergen distorted Obama's response regarding U.S. deaths in Iraq

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711160004?f=s_search

#93 AP falsely suggested Obama said his state Senate records do not "exist at all"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711150016?f=s_search

#94 AP claimed Obama's "mining lobbyist ties" are "raising questions" but did not say with whom

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711150015?f=s_search

FluffyNinja · 02-28-08, 11:48 PM

Wow Nifty! That's an impressive list of "lies." I'm glad we're not in a "formal" debate here. I just happened to notice that 99.9%.......wait, I mean ALL of your "lies" are referenced from Media Matters - that lovely, dignified, George Soros-sponsored, "non-profit" media "watch-dog" organization. Weren't these the same guys who brought down the Almighty Don Imus??? Wow! What a victory for American freedom and equality there! I mean Imus is such an influential media figure and all (detect a tinge of sarcasm here).
Well, I'll obviously never be able to come up with as many "lies" as Media Matters, since it seems it is THEY whom I'd be debating here and not YOU at all; however, I will end by providing a bit of info on the Media Matters "Stars" David Brock and Eric Alterman that some may not be aware of.

David Brock, the leader of Media Matters, it should be pointed out, is a self-proclaimed liar who strong-armed sources that didn’t agree with him. While writing the article “Blinded by the Right,” Brock was hospitalized in a mental facility where he spent time in a “quiet room” and “had delusions, he thought people were trying to kill him.” This story comes from The Drudge Report.

MSNBC pundit Tucker Carlson called Brock out for lying about him in Brock’s coming-out book, and for attacking David Horowitz as anti-gay without any verification. And a writer from the leftist Salon.com nailed Brock for fabrications. Brock admitted that he had misreported an issue in his book.

Brock also claims he lied about liberals when he acted conservative. But now that he’s come out of the closet as a liberal, he’s a truth teller without a trace of dishonesty??????? Okay.

Eric Alterman, one of the primary researchers and contributors for Media Matters wrote in the Nov. 9, 2000, issue of The Nation.:

“I got a call one day from a Republican Party functionary telling me that Hillary Clinton supported a Palestinian state and took money from groups that supported terrorist organizations "like the one that just blew up the USS Cole. I told the sorry sonofabitch that like Israel's Prime Minister, I, too, support a Palestinian state. And, if there was any justice in the world, Hillary's "terrorist" friends would blow up Republican headquarters while we were still on the phone, so I could enjoy hearing the explosion,”

Alterman's words sound like those of a TRUE AMERICAN "looking out for the best interests of us all" don't they????? I didn't think so. Media Matters does its part to uncover some of the inconvenient truths in our media; however, many, many of their reports involve snippets and soundbites taken completely out of context. One could argue that Snopes.com does a better job of research and source verification. Also, it is obvious that Media Matters is completely biased against conservative reporting and commentary. They're one of the driving forces behind the Far Left-wing fringe movement in politics as well as the media. Are these the people whom we've resorted to trusting blindly to bring us the truth? I'll pass.

niftydrifty · 02-28-08, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluffyNinja

[snip non arguments]...Well, I'll obviously never be able to come up with as many "lies" as Media Matters, since it seems it is THEY whom I'd be debating here and not YOU at all ....[snip non-arguments]

I've noticed you tend to shoot the messenger and make assumptions. sounds like you didn't know that I'm a professional researcher and an occasional contributor at mediamatters. I have even corresponded with Eric Alterman. he's a very cool guy. it was a dumb, poorly worded, tasteless joke. it also has nothing to do with what lies the media are telling about Obama in 2007-2008.

and, sure, you'd never find as many lies about McCain, even if you tried, or had help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluffyNinja

Media Matters does its part to uncover some of the inconvenient truths in our media; however, many, many of their reports involve snippets and soundbites taken completely out of context.

mmmmkay. how about disproving any single one of the lies I've listed here? any one of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluffyNinja

Are these the people whom we've resorted to trusting blindly to bring us the truth? I'll pass.

you'll pass. how convenient for you, seeing as how you don't have a case.

FluffyNinja · 02-29-08, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niftydrifty

I've noticed you tend to shoot the messenger and make assumptions. sounds like you didn't know that I'm a professional researcher and an occasional contributor at mediamatters. I have even corresponded with Eric Alterman. he's a very cool guy. it was a dumb, poorly worded, tasteless joke. it also has nothing to do with what lies the media are telling about Obama in 2007-2008.

and, sure, you'd never find as many lies about McCain, even if you tried, or had help.

mmmmkay. how about disproving any single one of the lies I've listed here? any one of them.

you'll pass. how convenient for you, seeing as how you don't have a case.

Shoot the messenger? That's entertaining. Don't you guys at Media Matters portray yourselves as "The Messengers" of "Truth" in the media?

I also find it quite amusing that whether it's Alterman, Brock, Sharpton or John Kerry; when a crude, racially biased or insensitive statement is made by anyone on the Left it was just " a poorly stated joke" or a "poor choice of words," but when it's Imus, Limbaugh or Karl Rove who "slips," it suddenly becomes a disatrous attack on human rights deserving of world import! Anyone who fails to see the double-standard exemplified by this type of "reporting" and "research" is blind........ and they have my pity.

And I've already admitted that Little ol' Fluffy Ninja, on his underpowered PC would never be able to counter every one-liner pulled off the web and the air waves by your multi-million dollar spin machine. I'm sure that if I had until 2012, and providing my CPU didn't crash, I could retrace each story and find the full text of every media "lie" that Media Matters has produced. I'm sure I'd come up with more than one "poorly chosen phrase" or statement taken out of context; however, I'll leave that to the David Horowitzs, Karl Roves, and Rush Limbaughs of the world - these people get paid to do it.

niftydrifty · 02-29-08, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluffyNinja

Shoot the messenger? That's entertaining. Don't you guys at Media Matters portray yourselves as "The Messengers" of "Truth" in the media?

"shooting the messenger" is a figure of speech. what it means is that instead of making a valid point [key word: "valid"] about what is said, what the logically challenged person will do is make ad hominems about where the information is coming from. if you're entertained by me pointing that out, then you should educate yourself about what an argument or a debate is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluffyNinja

I also find it quite amusing that whether it's Alterman, Brock, Sharpton or John Kerry; when a crude, racially biased or insensitive statement is made by anyone on the Left it was just " a poorly stated joke" or a "poor choice of words," but when it's Imus, Limbaugh or Karl Rove who "slips," it suddenly becomes a disatrous attack on human rights deserving of world import! Anyone who fails to see the double-standard exemplified by this type of "reporting" and "research" is blind........ and they have my pity.

read the article. did you notice that Alterman was lied to? no you didn't. did you notice that Alterman was responding to the liar with lies and ridiculous fabricated conjecture about what might happen if the lies were true? it was lost on you. but it was still dumb. I can admit that too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluffyNinja

And I've already admitted that Little ol' Fluffy Ninja, on his underpowered PC would never be able to counter every one-liner

prove that they were one-liners. they weren't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluffyNinja

pulled off the web and the air waves by your multi-million dollar spin machine.

show me how it's spin. it isn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluffyNinja

I'm sure that if I had until 2012, and providing my CPU didn't crash, I could retrace each story and find the full text of every media "lie" that Media Matters has produced.

I asked you to disprove just one. I'm asking you again. don't dodge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluffyNinja

I'm sure I'd come up with more than one "poorly chosen phrase" or statement taken out of context;

yet another assumption

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluffyNinja

however, I'll leave that to the David Horowitzs, Karl Roves, and Rush Limbaughs of the world - these people get paid to do it.

there are right leaning sites that do this stuff. copy and paste from them. when you do, I'll look at the merits of the content you post, not the source you pull it from.

regardless, the problem here for you is that there just aren't as many lies being told about McCain. and who needs to lie about him anyway? the fact is, it's the truth that's going to fatally wound him.

Ikari · 02-29-08, 09:49 AM

For the record. McCain/Feingold is horrible horrible legislation put into place to protect incumbents, it effectively shuts the door on people who are not championed by the establishment or independently wealthy. People have been saying that before Romney, and it is true that it is horrible, an act against free speech, and legislation which further separates the People from the government.