WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED? Trump? Hillary?

Does anyone else find themselves thinking this every time they see the news? Is this like a majority view? Do people actually believe these 2 nitwits are capable of the highest office in the land? The corruption and the idiocy and the lies and subversion...it is so damn high on both sides. I cannot be the only person who refuses to vote for either simply to save my soul and my integrity?

So. Maybe. Just share your thoughts on how ridiculous these choices are in this election and pontificate who your better candidate for the front runner for each party, and then for the president.

Personally? As a republican? Cruz was ok. But I liked Rubio and Paul and Carson better. I'd take any one of them over trump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

blackjack50 said:

Does anyone else find themselves thinking this every time they see the news? Is this like a majority view? Do people actually believe these 2 nitwits are capable of the highest office in the land? The corruption and the idiocy and the lies and subversion...it is so damn high on both sides. I cannot be the only person who refuses to vote for either simply to save my soul and my integrity?

So. Maybe. Just share your thoughts on how ridiculous these choices are in this election and pontificate who your better candidate for the front runner for each party, and then for the president.

Personally? As a republican? Cruz was ok. But I liked Rubio and Paul and Carson better. I'd take any one of them over trump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Unless something very disturbing happens, Trump is toast and a subject to be studied and no more.

blackjack50 said:

Does anyone else find themselves thinking this every time they see the news? Is this like a majority view? Do people actually believe these 2 nitwits are capable of the highest office in the land? The corruption and the idiocy and the lies and subversion...it is so damn high on both sides. I cannot be the only person who refuses to vote for either simply to save my soul and my integrity?

So. Maybe. Just share your thoughts on how ridiculous these choices are in this election and pontificate who your better candidate for the front runner for each party, and then for the president.

Personally? As a republican? Cruz was ok. But I liked Rubio and Paul and Carson better. I'd take any one of them over trump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Trump was chosen in the Primaries because the GOP underestimated that the majority of its registered voters were so angry over their economic situation that they would ignore all other considerations, e.g. the qualities and inexperience of the champion they chose to speak for their concerns.

Clinton was chosen in the Primaries because of the pervasive narrative that she was the only one who could defeat a Republican candidate.

And here we are.

blackjack50 said:

Does anyone else find themselves thinking this every time they see the news? Is this like a majority view? Do people actually believe these 2 nitwits are capable of the highest office in the land? The corruption and the idiocy and the lies and subversion...it is so damn high on both sides. I cannot be the only person who refuses to vote for either simply to save my soul and my integrity?

So. Maybe. Just share your thoughts on how ridiculous these choices are in this election and pontificate who your better candidate for the front runner for each party, and then for the president.

Personally? As a republican? Cruz was ok. But I liked Rubio and Paul and Carson better. I'd take any one of them over trump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Simply go back and trace how each acquired the necessary delegates to be nominated at a party convention.

For Trump, some of the big reasons are
1- a seriously divided field of over a dozen other competitors dividing the vote making his minority share appear larger
2- winner take all primaries which allowed him to take 100% of a states delegates despite winning a minority of the vote there
3- dedicated group of voters who would support him no matter what
4- party leaders and elders failed to unite early against him and repudiate him

For Clinton
1- Joe Biden did not run
2- African Americans supported Clinton in huge numbers and they make up a large part of the Dem primary voters
3- the DNC stacked the deck against Sanders and in favor of Clinton
4- a large number of super delegates who disproportionately favored Clinton

So change it next time around simply get rid of winner take all primaries on the GOP side and reduce the Democratic DNC role and that of the super delegates.

haymarket said:

Simply go back and trace how each acquired the necessary delegates to be nominated at a party convention.

For Trump, someof the big reasons are
1- a seriously divided field of over a dozen other competitors dividing the vote making his minority share appear larger
2- winner take all primaries which allowed him to take 100% of a states delegates despite winning a minority of the vote there
3- dedicated group of voters who would support him no matter what

For Clinton
1- Joe Biden did not run
2- African Americans supported Clinton in huge numbers and they make up a large part of the Dem primary voters
3- the DNC stacked the deck against Sanders and in favor of Clinton
4- a large number of super delegates who disproportionately favored Clinton

So change it next time around simply get rid of winner take all primaries on the GOP side and reduce the Democratic DNC role and that of the super delegates.

Click to expand...

there was nothing stacked against bernie sanders, he just couldn't win the states that he needed to and now is a shill for Clinton. Up until the last week of his campaign he was saying the superds will definitely turn towards him. It never happened because he didn't have the full support of the party and only 30% or so of the base.

ModerateGOP said:

there was nothing stacked against bernie sanders, he just couldn't win the states that he needed to and now is a shill for Clinton. Up until the last week of his campaign he was saying the superds will definitely turn towards him. It never happened because he didn't have the full support of the party and only 30% or so of the base.

Click to expand...

The fact that there were so many super delegates and the DNC establishment for Clinton worked against the insurgent - which was Sanders.

haymarket said:

Simply go back and trace how each acquired the necessary delegates to be nominated at a party convention.

For Trump, some of the big reasons are
1- a seriously divided field of over a dozen other competitors dividing the vote making his minority share appear larger
2- winner take all primaries which allowed him to take 100% of a states delegates despite winning a minority of the vote there
3- dedicated group of voters who would support him no matter what
4- party leaders and elders failed to unite early against him and repudiate him

For Clinton
1- Joe Biden did not run
2- African Americans supported Clinton in huge numbers and they make up a large part of the Dem primary voters
3- the DNC stacked the deck against Sanders and in favor of Clinton
4- a large number of super delegates who disproportionately favored Clinton

So change it next time around simply get rid of winner take all primaries on the GOP side and reduce the Democratic DNC role and that of the super delegates.

Click to expand...

Sadly, I think we both know that neither group will actually fix these problems.

haymarket said:

The fact that there were so many super delegates and the DNC establishment for Clinton worked against the insurgent - which was Sanders.

Click to expand...

While I'm not especially thrilled at the concept of superdelegates myself, they didn't single handedly tip the Primaries to her. She was legitimately handed overwhelmingly more votes than Sanders. This is not getting into how you may or may not feel about the media's lack of inclusion for Sanders.

There's another candidate that makes complete sense. But you won't vote for him because "He can't win."

Do you realize the irony in that logic?

It the Republicans controlled their process like the elite mullahs of the democrat party we wouldn't be having this conversation. We'd have an establishment republican promising the same ol', same ol', and nothing would get done. No one would have known that it was even possible to bring up the things Trump has, since no republican would dare. Someone might get mad at them and not invite them to parties anymore.

Inflation would keep eating away at stagnant wages, more jobs would be shipped out of the country, no one would get to tax reform beyond talk. Obamacare would include more and more illegals and working citizens would be paying more and more for less and less. Hillary's corruption would be swept under the carpet by both parties with a promise to "be good" while in office.

Trump has given the "other America" a voice. Win or lose, the direction of the country will forever be changed. Hillary will only be a footnote in history as being not only the first woman president, but the most corrupt of all.

But Trump may still win. What he did in his thirties, should be less important that what Hillary is going to do to us now.

Brewdog said:

There's another candidate that makes complete sense. But you won't vote for him because "He can't win."

Do you realize the irony in that logic?

Click to expand...

I will be voting for "him." He is the only choice I can make without feeling dirty. But I'm not a libertarian. I'm the new republican. Not a Neo con. I want fiscal conservative policies. I am socially liberal, for a republican, I don't care about gays and weed. Abortion is law now. I want us to spend time protecting other rights and the economy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

blackjack50 said:

Does anyone else find themselves thinking this every time they see the news? Is this like a majority view? Do people actually believe these 2 nitwits are capable of the highest office in the land? The corruption and the idiocy and the lies and subversion...it is so damn high on both sides. I cannot be the only person who refuses to vote for either simply to save my soul and my integrity?

So. Maybe. Just share your thoughts on how ridiculous these choices are in this election and pontificate who your better candidate for the front runner for each party, and then for the president.

Personally? As a republican? Cruz was ok. But I liked Rubio and Paul and Carson better. I'd take any one of them over trump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Trump sucks. I would have voted for any of the other 15 over Hillary Clinton. Thanks to the Trumpettes, I have a choice between dying by fire or dying by ice.

tres borrachos said:

Trump sucks. I would have voted for any of the other 15 over Hillary Clinton. Thanks to the Trumpettes, I have a choice between dying by fire or dying by ice.

Click to expand...

Ice. Totally ice. With hypothermia or frostbite at least you lose feeling. In fact I even hear you feel warm at first.

Brewdog said:

There's another candidate that makes complete sense. But you won't vote for him because "He can't win."

Do you realize the irony in that logic?

Click to expand...

Which candidate is that?

Jesse Booth said:

Sadly, I think we both know that neither group will actually fix these problems.

Click to expand...

You could be right - especially about the Republicans. About the Dems - I am not so sure. Apparently Clinton and Sanders had some agreement about changing future super delegate where they will be based on the proportional vote in the state. We shall see.

As far as no winner take all primaries in the GOP - it clearly bit them in the ass this time and clearly helped Trump screw the party establishment. If even after this they do not change it - they deserve all the grief they get in future election cycles where the same thing happens again.

Cardinal said:

While I'm not especially thrilled at the concept of superdelegates myself, they didn't single handedly tip the Primaries to her. She was legitimately handed overwhelmingly more votes than Sanders. This is not getting into how you may or may not feel about the media's lack of inclusion for Sanders.

Click to expand...

I agree and readily concede that they did not decide the nomination. They did however work to the disadvantage of Sanders as every week on Tuesday we saw the numbers including the super delegates and saw how far he was behind. And that perception figured into reality for Sanders.

blackjack50 said:

Does anyone else find themselves thinking this every time they see the news? Is this like a majority view? Do people actually believe these 2 nitwits are capable of the highest office in the land? The corruption and the idiocy and the lies and subversion...it is so damn high on both sides. I cannot be the only person who refuses to vote for either simply to save my soul and my integrity?

So. Maybe. Just share your thoughts on how ridiculous these choices are in this election and pontificate who your better candidate for the front runner for each party, and then for the president.

Personally? As a republican? Cruz was ok. But I liked Rubio and Paul and Carson better. I'd take any one of them over trump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I cannot stand that the next president will be the wife of a former two-term president, bringing the former president back into the White House, and I would have done everything in my power to prevent that from happening, including sending money to her opponent.

However...Trump.

I cannot believe the morons who hijacked the GOP voted this buffoon to lead the ticket. As a result, I will vote for the opponent most likely to beat him. Unfortunately that opponent is the wife of a two-term president.

UGH!

haymarket said:

I agree and readily concede that they did not decide the nomination. They did however work to the disadvantage of Sanders as every week on Tuesday we saw the numbers including the super delegates and saw how far he was behind. And that perception figured into reality for Sanders.

Click to expand...

Do you have stats for that? As I remember it, the concept of the super delegate was more alarming than what it actually did to the voting results.

blackjack50 said:

Does anyone else find themselves thinking this every time they see the news? Is this like a majority view? Do people actually believe these 2 nitwits are capable of the highest office in the land? The corruption and the idiocy and the lies and subversion...it is so damn high on both sides. I cannot be the only person who refuses to vote for either simply to save my soul and my integrity?

So. Maybe. Just share your thoughts on how ridiculous these choices are in this election and pontificate who your better candidate for the front runner for each party, and then for the president.

Personally? As a republican? Cruz was ok. But I liked Rubio and Paul and Carson better. I'd take any one of them over trump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Trump is an outsider and that is his greatest strength. He might actually upset the applecart and change something. I'm a Green, but abhor Clinton and so won't waste my vote on Jill Stein. Trump is against the wars in Iraq, Syria, and Libya and suggests a withdrawl from NATO is not out of the question. I am supportive of everything in that sentence. He thinks friendly relations with Russia are possible and I agree. Hillary is a WARMONGER. She was the driving force behind the Libya debacle and she wants to enact a no-fly zone in Syria. DUMB. She's a NEOCON and supporter of permanent war for the MIC and the Pentagon. She thinks the NWO is a good thing. She is a walking example of the embeciles that run the Nation. The inmates running the Institution, don't ya' know?

Trump: In 2012---- The GOP said NOTHING about him running around the country with his birther nonsense. That energized Trump AND energized the 30-40% of the GOP base that really wanted to believe Obama was/is a Muslim traitor who never deserved to be POTUS.

Disrespecting the POTUS like that. Basically saying he wasn't an American, and he didn't deserve being POTUS? And the GOP and Romney not saying a thing. Them even joking about it, them liking what he was doing? That lead to Trump 2016. Him, and that 30% realized they could say, and do anything without repercussions. Hell, in 2012 they had the blessings of the GOP. Problem was that monster the GOP let run wild in 2012 came back to bite the GOP in the ass in 2016.

Clinton---- The name. The political machine. Biden was wishy washy about running because his son died. The Dem party is more unified, but the reality with them is they really don't have any up and coming 'media' stars. GOP had 14-15 people in the primary. 6-8 of them were pretty well known. The Dems? 2 in the primaries and no one outside of Vermont knew who the hell Sanders was. So it was Clinton.

Cardinal said:

Do you have stats for that? As I remember it, the concept of the super delegate was more alarming than what it actually did to the voting results.

Click to expand...

this from wikipedia

This list tracks the support for given candidates among the 716 unpledged delegates (commonly known as superdelegates) who were eligible to cast a vote at the 2016 Democratic National Convention, held July 25–28, 2016 in Philadelphia.[1][2][3] The 8 unpledged delegates from Democrats Abroad carry half-votes at the convention, yielding a total of 712 votes.[4] Unpledged delegates represent about 15% of the overall convention votes (4,767 delegates, 4,763 votes) and come from several categories of prominent Democratic Party members:

437 elected members (with 433 votes) from the Democratic National Committee (including the chairs and vice-chairs of each state's Democratic Party)
20 distinguished party leaders (DPL), consisting of current and former presidents, current and former vice-presidents, former congressional leaders, and former DNC chairs
191 Democratic members of the United States House of Representatives (including non-voting delegates from DC and territories)
47 Democratic members of the United States Senate (including Washington, DC shadow senators)
21 Democratic governors (including territorial governors and the Mayor of the District of Columbia).

Click to expand...

blackjack50 said:

Does anyone else find themselves thinking this every time they see the news? Is this like a majority view? Do people actually believe these 2 nitwits are capable of the highest office in the land? The corruption and the idiocy and the lies and subversion...it is so damn high on both sides. I cannot be the only person who refuses to vote for either simply to save my soul and my integrity?

So. Maybe. Just share your thoughts on how ridiculous these choices are in this election and pontificate who your better candidate for the front runner for each party, and then for the president.

Personally? As a republican? Cruz was ok. But I liked Rubio and Paul and Carson better. I'd take any one of them over trump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

there are people who feel as you do, but are going to vote for one of them, why? because they are banking on USSC judges, its predicted that several of the judge positions will change in the next 4 years, and the left and right want judges appointed who will support their political agenda , instead of the constitution.

SenorXm/Sirius said:

Trump: In 2012---- The GOP said NOTHING about him running around the country with his birther nonsense. That energized Trump AND energized the 30-40% of the GOP base that really wanted to believe Obama was/is a Muslim traitor who never deserved to be POTUS.

Disrespecting the POTUS like that. Basically saying he wasn't an American, and he didn't deserve being POTUS? And the GOP and Romney not saying a thing. Them even joking about it, them liking what he was doing? That lead to Trump 2016. Him, and that 30% realized they could say, and do anything without repercussions. Hell, in 2012 they had the blessings of the GOP. Problem was that monster the GOP let run wild in 2012 came back to bite the GOP in the ass in 2016.

Clinton---- The name. The political machine. Biden was wishy washy about running because his son died. The Dem party is more unified, but the reality with them is they really don't have any up and coming 'media' stars. GOP had 14-15 people in the primary. 6-8 of them were pretty well known. The Dems? 2 in the primaries and no one outside of Vermont knew who the hell Sanders was. So it was Clinton.

Click to expand...

Dems have a few rising stars in the wings, but they didn't want to muddy themselves running against the Clinton Machine. That is why we saw only a 74 year old Socialist from Vermont who is not even a Democrat give it a shot.

Hillary's biggest threat would have been Warren. But, she took a pass. Next up is Castro down in San Antonio. He too didn't want any part of Clinton, and his best bet anyway is to wait 8 years for the demographics to shift even more in his favor.

Future stars: any one of the female US Senators from Maria Cantwell to Debbie Stabenow. Next up might be any of a few popular governors like Jay Nixon of Missouri, Andrew Cuomo of NY and Tom Wolf of PA. Also, don;t count out a longshot bid by some of the more popular ethnic House Dems from California like Judy Chu, Juan Vargas or Ted Lieu.

blackjack50 said:

Does anyone else find themselves thinking this every time they see the news? Is this like a majority view? Do people actually believe these 2 nitwits are capable of the highest office in the land? The corruption and the idiocy and the lies and subversion...it is so damn high on both sides. I cannot be the only person who refuses to vote for either simply to save my soul and my integrity?

So. Maybe. Just share your thoughts on how ridiculous these choices are in this election and pontificate who your better candidate for the front runner for each party, and then for the president.

Personally? As a republican? Cruz was ok. But I liked Rubio and Paul and Carson better. I'd take any one of them over trump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

If Cruz and Rubio and the rest hadn't given us the same old song-n-dance, they might have won the primary.

blackjack50 said:

Does anyone else find themselves thinking this every time they see the news? Is this like a majority view? Do people actually believe these 2 nitwits are capable of the highest office in the land? The corruption and the idiocy and the lies and subversion...it is so damn high on both sides. I cannot be the only person who refuses to vote for either simply to save my soul and my integrity?

So. Maybe. Just share your thoughts on how ridiculous these choices are in this election and pontificate who your better candidate for the front runner for each party, and then for the president.

Personally? As a republican? Cruz was ok. But I liked Rubio and Paul and Carson better. I'd take any one of them over trump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Look - I see why you feel the way you do. However, not voting is also a choice. If I could do one think, it would be to try and convince anyone who would listen why choosing Trump is a better choice over Hillary. Is he an a&*(*)( when it comes to saying stupid things? Yes. Is he a bit self centered? Yes. Is he often living a tad bit in the past? Yes. Did he use his power and money to manipulate pretty women in his earlier years? Yes.

Now, compare that to Hillary. The woman is on tape laughing about getting a man off on a failed lie detector result who raped a 12 year old girl. Raped so badly, she was never able to have children. She with her husband ran the white house and used their power to basically do whatever they wanted to do. Including, affairs in our highest office with interns who were later made out to be bimbos and tramps. She was so horrible as the SOS, the men in Benghazi lost their lives horribly and she can't even be honest bout any of it. She's created the sneakiest of all foundations for charity. One that while she taunts as being great, has made her and her husband millions and one that cannot be truly rated by charitable organizations because it doesn't operate in a normal manner. Now, why does it not operate in a normal manner? Because it is linked to Hillary Clinton. Just like her private email server, she is the sneakiest of sneaky and never, ever plays by the books. By doing it the way she does, she gets to say that she donates 89% of the money but really, no one has any measure to track her. Look at some of the news reports from those she's supposedly helped - all lies. And, then we have her time as SOS and all her lies and her pay for play scandals that netted her millions. How dare she use the office of the SOS to benefit and to betray the American people.

Look, you have a choice to make and deciding not to vote is actually helping put her in office. I hope that you reconsider because while it is easy to say that we are faced with difficult choices because our candidates simply don't measure up, to do nothing is doing something and maybe doing something that will harm our country for decades to come.