Republican 2008 Primary Election: The DP Edition - Page 6

American · 01-18-08, 09:02 PM

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Originally Posted by Curious George

You can't really expect a mainstream candidate to support that position though. The truth is that, in most cases, the constitution, as it is written, no longer applies. Congress has passed so many laws that just completely override or abridge it over the years and, in most cases, the Supreme Court has incredibly upheld those laws as constitutional.

So now whenever Congress passes a law that says a President can do this or that, they follow that law and not the constitution, truly believing that what they are doing is constitutional because the Supreme Court has said that it is and the rest of the country abides that decision.

It doesn't matter what the constitution says, it matters what the Supreme Court says it means (which can be anything, including the exact opposite of it's literal interpretation). As long as everyone agrees with that, Presidents will continue to do what is legally allowed and those decisions will be widely accepted as the normal way things are done. To expect a candidate to go against the norm in such a "radical" way is to expect him to be a radical and to never get elected. So you'll probably never vote for a winner.

You want to live your life with the belief that the Constitution is dead, and that good people cannot take back their country, you go ahead. Not me, if I get like you there won't be any reason to love this country any longer. Those soldiers fighting and dying over there believe in the Constitution, you go tell them it's dead.

Curious George · 01-19-08, 04:54 AM

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Originally Posted by American

Those soldiers fighting and dying over there believe in the Constitution, you go tell them it's dead.

Demagogue much?

You sound like the constitutionalist version of John McCain.

Everybody knows the constitution is dead including the soldiers fighting and dying. They know because they're fighting a war in Iraq that is, wait for it... unconstitutional! You think they didn't notice that their Congress never declared war on Iraq or Afghanistan?

Then again, when we invoke these large numbers of citizens, let's remember that the percentage of people who care more about Britney Spears than the constitution is probably just as high in the military as it is in the general population. "Our soldiers," as much as we apparently like to think so, don't all think the same way or have the same core beliefs.

Anyway, the point was not that the constitution was dead, even if I believe that it is. The point is that the constitution is what the Supreme Court says it is, regardless of what it actually says, and that politicians don't care what is right, they care what is legal. Expecting a President to require Congress to declare war before he commits troops to battle, when both the Congress and the Supreme Court say it's legal to do otherwise, is expecting a President to jump through invisibile hoops. It will take a special person to do that. It will take a George Washington or a Ron Paul. George Washington is dead and Ron Paul isn't ever going to be elected President.

Binary_Digit · 01-22-08, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curious George

they're fighting a war in Iraq that is, wait for it... unconstitutional!

"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land"

Any international treaty that we sign effectively becomes part of the Constitution. Under the UN treaties that we signed on to, we are obligated to defend any UN member country who comes under attack (Kuwait). The 1991 Iraq war technically didn't end; hostilities were suspended on condition that Hussein abide by the cease-fire agreements. Since he didn't abide by them, we are legally and constitutionally justified to be in Iraq today.

If not for the UN treaties, then yes, it would be unconstitutional.

Rebelman · 01-22-08, 05:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Curious George

For a few reasons:

4. Paul supporters would throw a fit of epic proportions if he was left out.

It wouldnt hurt people who go beyond youtube or beyond online's feelings at all

I picked McCain since Thompson dropped out.

ahyesindeedasexpected · 01-25-08, 08:08 PM

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Originally Posted by Rebelman

I picked McCain since Thompson dropped out.

How can you go from Thompson to McCain? Thompson was at least somewhat pro-liberty where McCain is anything but.

I do think this election is a point where people need to decide whether they embrace liberty or government control.

I'm pretty much going to vote libertarian if it is Huckabee or McCain as the Republican nominee...

Either one of those candidates will screw up our country just like Obama or Clinton. Socialist policies don't work and never have, even with the semi-socialist George W. Bush. Let the Democrats get the blame and maybe a Republican will reclaim some sense of liberty and be a candidate with some balls.

Then again, maybe it is time for the Republican party to wither away. It's been pretty worthless, in terms of liberty, since Bush came into office.

feioncastor · 01-31-08, 11:28 PM

Anyone catch on to what's going on with Huckabee yet?

If Huckabee were to drop out, his 10-15% would almost certainly go entirely to Romney, which would bump McCain out for the nomination. So as long as Huckabee stays in, McCain will continue winning. I think there might be a VP slot in store for Huckabee if he stays in long enough to rob enough votes from Romney to help McCain win.

Plus McCain is obviously weak on the economy, which is an issue that Huckabee is more familiar with (having been a Governor), so adding Huckabee to McCain's ticket will make McCain more electable in the general election.

RightinNYC · 02-01-08, 01:18 AM

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Originally Posted by feioncastor

Anyone catch on to what's going on with Huckabee yet?

If Huckabee were to drop out, his 10-15% would almost certainly go entirely to Romney,

What makes you say that? If you look at the exit polls, McCain actually does very well amongst many of the same groups that Huckabee does well with.

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which would bump McCain out for the nomination.

Even if that full 10-15% went to Romney, I don't think it would swing the election to Romney.

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Plus McCain is obviously weak on the economy, which is an issue that Huckabee is more familiar with (having been a Governor), so adding Huckabee to McCain's ticket will make McCain more electable in the general election.

Huckabee isn't strong on anything except maybe praying and raising children who pull Michael Vicks.

feioncastor · 02-01-08, 11:14 AM

Well, sure, but Huckabee does certainly have more executive experience than McCain, considering that Huckabee has served as a governor.

Hey, I wanna ask, does anyone else think it's weird that Huckabee is always talking about abolishing the IRS and scrapping our current tax code? I don't know everything about the US Government, but I'd imagine that the President doesn't have the power to completely undo a rather important piece of legislation and then replace it with something he thought up without the approval of Congress. Even if Huckabee was president, I doubt he'd actually be able to successfully replace our entire Federal tax system.

hrdman2luv · 02-20-08, 12:37 PM

After watching, researching, listening and reading all that I have about all the other candidates, I can't see myself voting for anyone but Ron Paul.

He has more tax breaks for Americans. More tax breaks, pay raises, benefits, and health care for our soldiers and Vets than anyone. We wouldn't have to worry abouyt never ending wars. We could actually open up trade with Iran, which would drop the cost of fuel over night.

It's like the difference between steak dinner & burned bologna.

Damn the media for blocking him, his record and his conservative beliefs. And damn the GOP for not endorcing him.

hrdman2luv · 02-20-08, 12:46 PM

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Originally Posted by feioncastor

Well, sure, but Huckabee does certainly have more executive experience than McCain, considering that Huckabee has served as a governor.

Though he has more experience, that doesn't mean he is any good at it. My brother lives in Arkansas. I asked him about Huckabee several months ago. He told me " They don't call him tax hike mike for nothing"

Hey, I wanna ask, does anyone else think it's weird that Huckabee is always talking about abolishing the IRS and scrapping our current tax code? I don't know everything about the US Government, but I'd imagine that the President doesn't have the power to completely undo a rather important piece of legislation and then replace it with something he thought up without the approval of Congress. Even if Huckabee was president, I doubt he'd actually be able to successfully replace our entire Federal tax system.

Considering that Mike was a governor of a state that has a state income tax, and not one time did he ever try to do away with it, I doubt very seriously he is sincere about his Federal Income Tax plans. After all, there would be no change in the amount of money that we actually get to keep. His 25% increase in sales tax, would take all of the federal income tax that we saved on our checks. It would actually hurt the poorer people.

I believe that the only reason Mike is even staying is too keep the media off of Ron Paul. Because, everyone I know, who used to support any other candidate, but starts supporting Ron Paul, never goes back to any other candidate. Now, it's kind of irrelevant, because Ron Paul is so far behind, and has no chance of winning. But keeping Huckabee in the race, keeps McCain from loosing everything. Because I think alot of Huckabee supporters would definately turn democrat against McCain.