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The "ugly women's vote"?

JumpinJack said:
You are obviously suffering from a "size matters" complex.

Referring to women as "ugly" is one way for a misogynist to denigrate all women generally. You also don't know much about women. ALL women are criticized for their appearance at some time. ALL of them. Apparently even beauty queens.

So there is no "ugly woman" vote. There is just the "woman" vote. You should realize that Trump can't win a national election without it. Ask Mr. "bindersfullofwomen" Romney about it. The loss of that vote cost him the election. Will history repeat itself? I think so.

Alienating the female vote and the hispanic vote isn't smart. You can't be President unless you're smart.
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your posts demonstrate they obviously are suffering from the "I want to be offended" syndrome and your posts are now unable to understand the point I was making which was a parody of DNC heavyweight Ed Rendell's comment.
 
TurtleDude said:
two Hillary ads are playing constantly in SW Ohio. One shows pictures of Hillary at various stages of her life and her talking about how she cares so much for children. Then next ad is the one I am asking about. It has snippets of Trump referring (a woman I assume) to being flat chested, a pig etc.

So is the purpose of this advertisement to gain Hillary the ugly female vote? to make women who have been criticized for their looks to vote for her?
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1st off, this isn't for the "ugly women's" vote. All women, even miss universe contestants, can be self conscious or have insecurities about their bodies or looks. There's plenty of hit women out there that will still get plenty pissed off hearing a guy talk about women as though they were being judged in a dog show.

And for your constant excuse of "well he ran a beauty contest!" First that's no excuse, and second, he's insulted the looks of numerous women who weren't in a Beauty pageant. Just look at what he said about Carly fiorina.
 
TurtleDude said:
LOL weak response. all proven. You are denying 5 of her associates took the fifth?
or that wall street loves her Crony Capitalism

I bet you will claim she and Bill aren't worth 110 million either
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Actually, everything on your list was debunked YEARS ago. Only a partisan hack would think otherwise.
 
roughdraft274 said:
1st off, this isn't for the "ugly women's" vote. All women, even miss universe contestants, can be self conscious or have insecurities about their bodies or looks. There's plenty of hit women out there that will still get plenty pissed off hearing a guy talk about women as though they were being judged in a dog show.

And for your constant excuse of "well he ran a beauty contest!" First that's no excuse, and second, he's insulted the looks of numerous women who weren't in a Beauty pageant. Just look at what he said about Carly fiorina.
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yeah his comments about Fiorina were stupid but there is no evidence he has prevented women from advancing in his company. And its clear Hillary is trying to pander to any and all women who have been offended by men for whatever reason. Of course if you really follow things, its hard to pretend that Hillary is some sort of avenging Joan of Arc for scorned and insulted women given her support of her philandering husband where she took an active role as part of "bimbo eruption suppression squad" and was known to refer to his victims with such wonderful terms as "trailer park trash"

I think many smart women realize Hillary's continued relationship with Bill Clinton is a case of Hillary being more interested in the power she can gain by trading off being Bill's wife than anything else. Its something Machiavelli would have taken note of
 
Moot said:
Actually, everything on your list was debunked YEARS ago. Only a partisan hack would think otherwise.
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you are claiming that the five taking the fifth is not true

or that she has received millions and millions from wall street

or that she and Bill are not worth over 110 million dollars?
 
TurtleDude said:
yeah his comments about Fiorina were stupid but there is no evidence he has prevented women from advancing in his company. And its clear Hillary is trying to pander to any and all women who have been offended by men for whatever reason. Of course if you really follow things, its hard to pretend that Hillary is some sort of avenging Joan of Arc for scorned and insulted women given her support of her philandering husband where she took an active role as part of "bimbo eruption suppression squad" and was known to refer to his victims with such wonderful terms as "trailer park trash"

I think many smart women realize Hillary's continued relationship with Bill Clinton is a case of Hillary being more interested in the power she can gain by trading off being Bill's wife than anything else. Its something Machiavelli would have taken note of
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You're only talking about how's she's pandering because you don't like her. Every politician that's trying to get votes could be described as pandering. We get it. She was mean to a handful of women that accused her husband of things. So therefor she's not allowed to bring up all of the nasty things trump has said about every woman he's ever argued with ever? Come on dude. You're not fooling anyone. Hillary Clinton was at least defending her husband. Trump calls women ugly for fun.
 
roughdraft274 said:
You're only talking about how's she's pandering because you don't like her. Every politician that's trying to get votes could be described as pandering. We get it. She was mean to a handful of women that accused her husband of things. So therefor she's not allowed to bring up all of the nasty things trump has said about every woman he's ever argued with ever? Come on dude. You're not fooling anyone. Hillary Clinton was at least defending her husband. Trump calls women ugly for fun.
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tell us in the great scheme of things-with massive terrorist threats, unchecked immigration, cops being shot in the streets at a rate we haven't seen in years, etc why this is so important given that there is no evidence Trump has prevented women from achieving in his business empire
 
TurtleDude said:
you are claiming that the five taking the fifth is not true.
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Clinton urged them to cooperate with the FBI. But they had their own lawyers that advised them to take the fifth.

or that she has received millions and millions from wall street Did it say that on her tax returns?

or that she and Bill are not worth over 110 million dollars?
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I assume it's all accounted for on her tax returns. Too bad, Trump can't say the same, eh?
 
Moot said:
Clinton urged them to cooperate with the FBI. But they had their own lawyers that advised them to take the fifth.

I assume it's all accounted for on her tax returns. Too bad, Trump can't say the same, eh?
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so you admit I was right about the five. OK. and you admit that I was telling the truth about her net worth too

so why waste a post claiming I was wrong when you both knew I was right and you ultimately admitted it?
 
TurtleDude said:
tell us in the great scheme of things-with massive terrorist threats, unchecked immigration, cops being shot in the streets at a rate we haven't seen in years, etc why this is so important given that there is no evidence Trump has prevented women from achieving in his business empire
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Where have I ever said this is one of the most important issues regarding the election?

Or were you just changing the topic cause your other bull**** wasn't working lmao.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Where have I ever said this is one of the most important issues regarding the election?

Or were you just changing the topic cause your other bull**** wasn't working lmao.
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I am asking you-a hillary supporter-why this matters
 
TurtleDude said:
Its something Machiavelli would have taken note of
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That may be the case, because while Trump would ordinarily be more interesting to hang around with for the women, Machiavelli could only tolerate being in Trump's presence with a set of modern ear plugs.
 
TurtleDude said:
so you admit I was right about the five. OK. and you admit that I was telling the truth about her net worth too

so why waste a post claiming I was wrong when you both knew I was right and you ultimately admitted it?
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Huh? I said your list was debunked....because it was. It's all political BS to bring Hillary's high ratings down before the election so the low lifes, bigots and racist republican candidates could compete...and it was easier than trying to bring their own ratings up. The GOP partisan hacks did a lot of undeserved damage to her reputation, I'll give you that....but Hillary is still standing strong and by the looks of it...she's going to be our next president. :)
 
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Moot said:
Huh? I said your list was debunked....because it was. It's all political BS to bring Hillary's high ratings down before the election so the low lifes, bigots and racist republican candidates could compete...and it was easier than trying to bring their own ratings up. The GOP partisan hacks did a lot of undeserved damage to her reputation, I'll give you that....but Hillary is still standing strong and by the looks of it...she's going to be our next president. :)
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tell us true moot, do you think Hillary is fundamentally a "good person"? or do you support her merely because you like her pro choice-anti gun, big government crony capitalist platform
 
Fiddytree said:
That may be the case, because while Trump would ordinarily be more interesting to hang around with for the women, Machiavelli could only tolerate being in Trump's presence with a set of modern ear plugs.
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you're someone who actually enjoys listening to the screeching Shillary? both of them suck but her voice makes one want to hurl
 
TurtleDude said:
you're someone who actually enjoys listening to the screeching Shillary? both of them suck but her voice makes one want to hurl
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She's fine.
 
TurtleDude said:
wow, even my family members in NY who are hard core hillary fans think her voice is disturbing
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She's not Madeline Kahn in Blazing Saddles or anything.
 
TurtleDude said:
I am asking you-a hillary supporter-why this matters
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Well it's pretty obvious to everyone why it matters. People want a president who isn't an asshole to everybody. That's why you have continually and nonstop brought up how Hillary treated the women that accused bill badly.

But like I said I've never said it's important or even on the top 5 list of important issues. But you'd have to be damn near retarded to not understand that **** like this will be talked about during a presidential campaign.

The one aspect I think is important to note is that your candidate is such a big whining bitch-boy that he's staying up at night and early morning to go on Twitter rants about this. The guys a petty **** head. Hillary takes criticism like an actual mature adult. Your guy is a walking man baby. And you want him to run the country.
 
nota bene said:
Actually, I'm not at all sure that there is some monolithic "woman" vote.

But I agree with you that "Referring to women as 'ugly' is one way for a misogynist to denigrate all women generally. You also don't know much about women. ALL women are criticized for their appearance at some time. ALL of them. Apparently even beauty queens."

Several years ago there was a study done that revealed that the most ordinary of guys ranked themselves very highly while beauty queens were likely to think of themselves as "7's" or "8's." I'm Googling now but haven't found yet what I'm looking for. I did find this, though: How to Rate Girls: The Base Ten Scale Defined | Real Men Drink Whiskey

(snip)
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Oh, she has her problems, that's for sure. But my response was not about Clinton at all. It was about the OP's "ugly woman vote" post.

I am saddened to see some men not stand up for women being name-called, as women have supported men, for the most part, all their lives. Some men have no idea how women's looks are commented on and criticized or praised all their lives...to me, the praise is almost as bad as the criticism, when it comes from someone you don't know well and it's about a body part or something. It's as if some men (not all) think of women as parts, not whole human beings, and something "less than" they are, so the men have a right to discuss the parts, as if we were cars. ("Yeah, the wheels are great, but the carburetor needs an overhaul").

I've had many parts (and behaviors) commented on by men. The comments have been bad and good. They include:

Hair quality
Hair color
Hair style
Eye shape
Eye color
Eye size
Face symmetry
General figure
Hips
Feet
Toes
General appearance
Chest
Neck
Ears
Stomach
Legs
Being a beauty
Not being a beauty
Nose
Teeth
Age (both when I was younger, and now that I'm older)
And of course, the main thing: weight. I've been told I was too thin, and that I weighed too much. (Note that I've never been too thin, and I'm not fat. Always been within the normal range.)

The comments were made by various men, from total strangers to those I knew casually, to bfs, some even yelled at me from across the street by a guy hanging out a truck window while he passed. The comments were sometimes approving, sometimes disapproving. The intent is the same: to let you know that they think they have a right to critique your parts. Doesn't matter where you are, what you're talking about, where you're going. You could be having a nice day, going about your business, when some guy shouts out some horrible word to you while passing, or says it to you to your face as you enter a convenience store.

I can't imagine how a man would take it, living a life where no matter what he does, people he encounters make comments on his various parts. Even strangers yelling at him from across the street. People he is having a conversation with respond by commenting on his eyebrows or hair. Women get hardened to this, I think. When something happens repeatedly, you sort of get used to it.

I would like to think that the younger generation of women, little girls, would not have to deal with this as much, as they grow up.

So to have someone in power target women with ugly name-calling really hits home to many women, whether they are attractive or not so attractive. And to read posts where men refer to the ugly woman vote is very insulting, and sad to think they would stand for their sister or mother or daughter being the object of such ridicule. American men have traditionally, by and large, stood up for women when it counted. But not all men.
 
Fletch said:
I think that's right. The idea that Trump hates women is total nonsense. What he is is childish and shallow, not hate filled. It is the collectivist and political nature of the left to take an insult hurled at one member of a pressure group as an insult to all members of that group. Trump once referred to Rosie as a fat pig, the left twists this into an insult of women rather than an insult of a particular woman, which it was. That's not excusing Trumps behavior but his reaction to a substantive criticism of him, is to say 'well, you are just stupid and/or ugly.' That's childish and shallow, not racist or misogynistic.
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Though I can agree with you to some extent, one does have to look at a pattern of behavior. If someone insults a woman or two, they might just be a childish, shallow, ignoramus. If, however, this is a consistent pattern of behavior, there may be more to it.
 
JumpinJack said:
Oh, she has her problems, that's for sure. But my response was not about Clinton at all. It was about the OP's "ugly woman vote" post.

I am saddened to see some men not stand up for women being name-called, as women have supported men, for the most part, all their lives. Some men have no idea how women's looks are commented on and criticized or praised all their lives...to me, the praise is almost as bad as the criticism, when it comes from someone you don't know well and it's about a body part or something. It's as if some men (not all) think of women as parts, not whole human beings, and something "less than" they are, so the men have a right to discuss the parts, as if we were cars. ("Yeah, the wheels are great, but the carburetor needs an overhaul").

I've had many parts (and behaviors) commented on by men. The comments have been bad and good. They include:

Hair quality
Hair color
Hair style
Eye shape
Eye color
Eye size
Face symmetry
General figure
Hips
Feet
Toes
General appearance
Chest
Neck
Ears
Stomach
Legs
Being a beauty
Not being a beauty
Nose
Teeth
Age (both when I was younger, and now that I'm older)
And of course, the main thing: weight. I've been told I was too thin, and that I weighed too much. (Note that I've never been too thin, and I'm not fat. Always been within the normal range.)

The comments were made by various men, from total strangers to those I knew casually, to bfs, some even yelled at me from across the street by a guy hanging out a truck window while he passed. The comments were sometimes approving, sometimes disapproving. The intent is the same: to let you know that they think they have a right to critique your parts. Doesn't matter where you are, what you're talking about, where you're going. You could be having a nice day, going about your business, when some guy shouts out some horrible word to you while passing, or says it to you to your face as you enter a convenience store.

I can't imagine how a man would take it, living a life where no matter what he does, people he encounters make comments on his various parts. Even strangers yelling at him from across the street. People he is having a conversation with respond by commenting on his eyebrows or hair. Women get hardened to this, I think. When something happens repeatedly, you sort of get used to it.

I would like to think that the younger generation of women, little girls, would not have to deal with this as much, as they grow up.

So to have someone in power target women with ugly name-calling really hits home to many women, whether they are attractive or not so attractive. And to read posts where men refer to the ugly woman vote is very insulting, and sad to think they would stand for their sister or mother or daughter being the object of such ridicule. American men have traditionally, by and large, stood up for women when it counted. But not all men.
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My "fave" is "carrying a wide load."

But you're preaching to the choir, sister. And it's not just the comments on physical appearance; it's also the lingering notion, stupid as it is, that a woman can either be pretty or smart.
 
TurtleDude said:
tell us true moot, do you think Hillary is fundamentally a "good person"? or do you support her merely because you like her pro choice-anti gun, big government crony capitalist platform
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Yes, I think Hillary is fundamentally a good person. I think she truly wants to make a positive difference in the world and has her whole life. I know she's not perfect and makes mistakes...but then who doesn't? I admire her perseverance and that she never gives up. Frankly, I've never seen anyone, male or female who has shown as much stamina, tolerance and grace against the kind of vicious smearing and hate that she has had to endure from her political enemies over the last thirty five years and still come out standing tall. I could care less about her policy on guns...which I suspect will be the same as Obama's. I'm more concerned how she will handle foreign policy, global warming, economy and jobs, race and women's issues, SCOTUS judges, etc. I worry that she will compromise too much with republicans but understand that some compromise is necessary to get things done. But guns...guns aren't even on my list of priorities, TD.


I don't think Trump has a moral center...and that alone makes too dangerous to get near the red button.
 
Moot said:
Yes, I think Hillary is fundamentally a good person. I think she truly wants to make a positive difference in the world and has her whole life. I know she's not perfect and makes mistakes...but then who doesn't? I admire her perseverance and that she never gives up. Frankly, I've never seen anyone, male or female who has shown as much stamina, tolerance and grace against the kind of vicious smearing and hate that she has had to endure from her political enemies over the last thirty five years and still come out standing tall. I could care less about her policy on guns...which I suspect will be the same as Obama's. I'm more concerned how she will handle foreign policy, global warming, economy and jobs, race and women's issues, SCOTUS judges, etc. I worry that she will compromise too much with republicans but understand that some compromise is necessary to get things done. But guns...guns aren't even on my list of priorities, TD.


I don't think Trump has a moral center...and that alone makes too dangerous to get near the red button.
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I think that has to be one of the silliest things I have ever read on this board.
 
TurtleDude said:
I think that has to be one of the silliest things I have ever read on this board.
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Not nearly as silly as someone who would vote for Trump.
 
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