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Devout Hillary Supporters[W:634]

Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

Trump says he will get "good" people but he really means "yes men" and he is "owned" by his drive to benefit himself more than any other candidate. Which other candidate has billions and still wants more? What is clear is that he will say ANYTHING to get elected but what he will do if he succeeds is anybodies guess. I do know that Trump always puts Trump FIRST though and feathering his nest is a priority for him.

So that was the problem with JFK he was a billionaire driven by money. Look at the money Hillary & Bill have made thanks to their political careers. Try again.
Trump doesn't need politics to make money. He has already proven that. When He wants information he doesn't hire yes men. Otherwise he would have lost all his money. But a nice try.
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

Donald attitude seems to be my way or the highway. He is already proving that. He is not working to unify the party. He is doing the complete opposite.

That is what I like about him. The party, actually both parties, are bought and paid for by bankers, special interest, and big business. The fact that he is standing his ground and doing what he believes is right is his greatest asset. We have enough puppets in government.
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

Well, by Reagan that strategy had already been set in stone for 12 years before Reagan, and although I agree that the repealing of the Fairness Doctrine wasn't a good thing, it would have in no way stopped the birth of corporate media (Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, all basic cable channels) with its corporate biases and shortcomings. However, yes, the combination of these things has been destructive for race relations, letting religiosity bleed into politics, and the advancement of the Far Right ideology.



I think what you've said above is the key, defining distinction between the two major groups of the Democratic party (exemplified by the candidates who rose to the top). That being said, I simply don't agree with you on this point. I believed this firmly in early 2008, when I switched from a Libertarian to a Democrat and campaigned for Barrack Obama. And then I watched as my generation and other progressives promoted Barrack Obama against long odds to become the Democratic nominee, I campaigned and contributed to him to win the presidency in 2008, I voted for him and for the wholly Democratic congress, the crushing win he had over John McCain, the promotion of "good progressive" Democrats (including Hillary) into high-level positions, we switched the House and the Senate over to the Democrats with a nearly veto-proof majority. And in return, we got the weakest form of healthcare reform you could imagine, we got the weakest form regulations on Wall Street that could still be called regulations, and Wall Street got a huge, huge bailout. And I watched as a Democrat-controlled House and Senate fought against all of the things that the they allegedly stood for. My generations prospects got worse, the economic policies explicitly were written in a way that absolutely devastated the poor and middle-class, the entire country has slipped further and further into debt (individually, not nationally, the national debt is, as you probably know, more or less irrelevant) the only jobs that were created were jobs that created more underemployment and were underpaid, and so on and so on --and that's not even getting into foreign policy.

And all of the deregulating laws that created the financial collapse by either removing regulations or never creating them in the first place? All of the laws that set our fiscal and monetary policies policies? All of the laws that regulate the financial industry and corporations? All the laws that help the interest of workers, like trade deals and labor laws? For forty long years, the issues that lie in the interests of the middle-class and especially the poor all have been undermined whether there was a Democratic president in office with a Republican congress, and vice versa, whether there was a Republican in office with a Republican congress, and yes, whether there was a Democrat in office with a Democratic congress. If you were looking for a great defeat of Republicans, you couldn't have done much better than 2008, and we have the history of how that turned out. Needless to say, for me, the idea that "all that needs to happen is for the Republicans to lose big" was bombastically falsified.

(We can ask, "Well why is that?" and that's another long subject, but I think the highlights are: Corporate/Wall Street money in politics, the elitist bubble in Washington, and corporate media. So when you talk about Fairness Doctrine, the Southern Strategy, and so on, but I'd definitely add Buckley v Valeo to that list to things that went tits up in before Reagan hit the Oval Office.)

Damned fine post! Right on the money. :bravo:
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

Damned fine post! Right on the money. :bravo:

Poor GOP

They really do not see that the demographics are changing, and they eye it with suspicion and anger, thus you have Trump.
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

We agree on pretty much all of this, we just disagree on how to fix it..

You (sanders supporter correct?) - Take from the rich to give to the poor - socialism
Me (Trump) - We don't have to take from the rich directly, maybe change some economic rules, just get jobs back for the middle class so they can build themselves back up.


You support taking from the poor and the dwindling middle class and giving it to the rich?
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

Poor GOP

They really do not see that the demographics are changing, and they eye it with suspicion and anger, thus you have Trump.

Bull**** statement. Whites, and white males in particular have been targeted as fair game for the past 30 years by the media, Hollywood, race baiter's, and white guilt liberals. They are getting a little tired of the BS, and just want to get by without people like you adding to the fodder.
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

That is what I like about him. The party, actually both parties, are bought and paid for by bankers, special interest, and big business. The fact that he is standing his ground and doing what he believes is right is his greatest asset. We have enough puppets in government.

He is not a one man show, although he thinks he will be which shows how little he knows amout politics works.
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

Poor GOP

They really do not see that the demographics are changing, and they eye it with suspicion and anger, thus you have Trump.

Reality is that Millennials will make the nation more progressive. It is the demographic Washington (both ruling corpgov parties) have largely ignored and continue to ignore. That is going to happen. It is happening now and the establishment is doing all it can to ignore it and downplay it.

It used to be "20 years of schooling and they put you on the day shift", but now it's 20 years of schooling and making $12.00 an hour, still living with mom and dad and facing school loan debt of over $100,000. That is the future most Millennials face. The GOP's answer is that young people just need to work harder and save money. LOL!
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

So that was the problem with JFK he was a billionaire driven by money. Look at the money Hillary & Bill have made thanks to their political careers. Try again.
Trump doesn't need politics to make money. He has already proven that. When He wants information he doesn't hire yes men. Otherwise he would have lost all his money. But a nice try.

JFK was NOT a billionaire.
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

He got laid like he was. Hi Frank.

Hey, CJ...good to see ya here.

Yeah...he did some fine ladies. But he did it on millions...not billions.
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

He is not a one man show, although he thinks he will be which shows how little he knows amout politics works.

That is what people like about Trump. He will fight for the people and not bow to party politics as usual. Most candidates are beholding to the people who paid their way. They don't own Trump and he will not be their puppet. Just the opposite Hillary owes party and every special interest group in the country. The only thing we get from party puppets is the bill when the rich and powerful as well as special interest start calling in their markers
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

JFK was NOT a billionaire.


JFK was estimated to be worth 1/2 billion at his death which at today's current value makes him a billionaire. Gold was approximately $35.00 an ounce in 1963. Do the math.
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

That is what people like about Trump. He will fight for the people and not bow to party politics as usual. Most candidates are beholding to the people who paid their way. They don't own Trump and he will not be their puppet. Just the opposite Hillary owes party and every special interest group in the country. The only thing we get from party puppets is the bill when the rich and powerful as well as special interest start calling in their markers[/QUOT
Do you forget that he can do nothing without the house and senate unless he uses executive action that he has already said he is against it
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

JFK was estimated to be worth 1/2 billion at his death which at today's current value makes him a billionaire. Gold was approximately $35.00 an ounce in 1963. Do the math.

Great logic. :roll: We are all billionaires using the same logic for the year 1516.

You learned math watching Count Von Count on Sesame Street, right?
 
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Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

Hillary is immensely qualified and shares my views on most issues. I do admit that the 30 year GOP vendetta against her makes her more appealing to me and I have seen no real reason not to "trust her". I'm also not a fool who thinks a huge upset of the "status quo" would benefit me and am more than satisfied with continued progress along the Progressive line. Those that think that Trump would do things that benefit them would be sadly disappointed if he had a chance of winning.

I hear a lot about how horrible and corrupt Hillary is, but I never see actual complaints.

Except "Benghazi!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Most people aren't willing to say-Hey my candidate is a lying bitch but her policies will be better for me than her opponent. they pretend that she is some sort of joan of arc or on the other side, that Trump isn't part of the washington corrupt game. Its a joke. If you are supporting Hilary and claim she's a good person or an honest politician, you are really out to lunch for the most part. same with those who think Trump is some sort of outsider untarnished by the big charade that is our political system. Hilary is perhaps the most disgusting person I have seen run in a major party in my lifetime-I was too young to really contemplate LBJ though.

Well, let's see. Your first list is a WND article that basically references WND 'investigations'. I think we can all agree that's a complete joke.

The second is reasonable. It lists :

email servers, (stupid, but it doesn't look like there were any adverse consequences or that it was unprecedented among cabinet secretaries). We'll see what the full investigation turns up. But I'm fairly sure she wasn't darting off national security secrets on nonsecure channels.

Benghazi. I think multiple congressional investigations and years of work have determined that there's pretty much bupkis there.

Wall Street Speeches/Clinton Foundation: the usual insider conflict of interest the entire government seems to be based upon, from every congressman on up.


And given the alternative, I'd expect Trump to regularly let slip classified info, because the guy is a loose cannon. I'd also expect him to actively work on padding his and his kids personal fortunes 24/7 while in office. That's the kind of guy he clearly is.
My observation is that voters (on DP, at least) would rather use rhetoric to build up or break down opponents. Some voters want politicians to talk more about issues. Why not talk more about issues, yourselves?
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

Great logic. :roll: We are all billionaires using the same logic for the year 1516.

That is why you have to adjust for the value of the dollar today when comparing wealth to previous centuries. Maybe if you had watched sesame street you could comprehend that when comparing wealth of people from different time periods you have to adjust for the difference in the value of the dollar. :doh

You learned math watching Count Von Count on Sesame Street, right?
:

No my younger brother did. That is why he makes 10 times what I make designing computer chips for weather satellites.:thumbs:

I wish they had sesame street when I was a kid.
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

That is why you have to adjust for the value of the dollar today when comparing wealth to previous centuries. Maybe if you had watched sesame street you could comprehend that when comparing wealth of people from different time periods you have to adjust for the difference in the value of the dollar. :doh

:

No my younger brother did. That is why he makes 10 times what I make designing computer chips for weather satellites.:thumbs:

I wish they had sesame street when I was a kid.

Ah, Howdy Doody or Ding Dong School?
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

My observation is that voters (on DP, at least) would rather use rhetoric to build up or break down opponents. Some voters want politicians to talk more about issues. Why not talk more about issues, yourselves?

This thread is about the candidate, not so much the issues.

Other threads are about the issues. You might have more luck there.
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

Reality is that Millennials will make the nation more progressive. It is the demographic Washington (both ruling corpgov parties) have largely ignored and continue to ignore. That is going to happen. It is happening now and the establishment is doing all it can to ignore it and downplay it.

It used to be "20 years of schooling and they put you on the day shift", but now it's 20 years of schooling and making $12.00 an hour, still living with mom and dad and facing school loan debt of over $100,000. That is the future most Millennials face. The GOP's answer is that young people just need to work harder and save money. LOL!

The amazing thing is that the DNC, the RNC, and the pundits are genuinely confused about why Millennial voters are so pro-Bernie, so anti-Hillary, and are just laughing at Trump. Since the primaries, statistics have been done and it turns out that Millennials are wildly progressive (>~70%), anti-capitalist (~50%), socialist (~30%), and communist (~6%).

When so-called elite corporate news pundits heard Sanders call himself a socialist, they said "Lunatic." But when Millennials saw that he called himself a socialist, they said "Finally."

The disconnect couldn't be more palpable between Millennials and the DNC/RNC Establishment. Millennials are in the same boat as The Greatest Generation with regards to an unending economic recession, the supreme excesses of the rich and the overtness of them, and how hard young people have been ground into the dirt so that some rich asshole can buy a fifteenth Lamborghini this year. You combine that with the fact that there's a virtual media blackout on Millennials ever since Obama deprived Hillary of the Iron Throne the first time, plus the advent of the internet and the access to unfiltered information, and then you realize the question should never have been "Why are Millennials openly well-versed in various forms of far Left-wing ideology, flaunting the fact that they're socialists, and embracing the far Left?" The question should have been "Why would we have expected them to do anything else?" The intransigent commitment to far Left-wing ideology is 100% of product of the failure of the rich, influential, and powerful to modulate their own excessive opulence, their insatiable greediness, and their firm commitment to the neoliberal ideology that acts as post-hoc rationalization of their behavior. They exposed the capitalist system for what it really is, and unlike past generations, droves of young people aren't lining up to enter the abattoir. Instead, their joining up with the Leftists of the previous generations and fighting back with whatever they have at their disposal --their conversations, their money, their calls, their signatures, their involvement, and their votes.


And the DNC/RNC seriously believes (or at least they are repeating it publicly and often, perhaps in the hopes that it'll make it so) that as soon as Sanders leaves the race, they can switch to blackwalling Sanders, laying down a stronger moratorium on Millennials, and then the Sanders' movement will just disappear. I have bad news for them.
 
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Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

Ah, Howdy Doody or Ding Dong School?

I was partial to the Roadrunner and Bugs Bunny. Nothing beats those great American made acme products.
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

I'd only vote for her under one circumstance, that she did this.
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

Since the primaries, statistics have been done and it turns out that Millennials are wildly progressive (>~70%), anti-capitalist (~50%), socialist (~30%), and communist (~6%).

Yep.. The great experiment is doomed :(
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

I have talked to a lot of people about the election. Now that it is Trump vs Hillary, most of the Burnie people I know are jumping on the hillary bandwagon to stop trump, and most of the cruz people I know are reluctantly supporting trump over hillary.

But those reluctant voters aren't the ones I want to talk about. I want to talk about the genuine, full on, Hillary Clinton Supporters.

I understand that you like some of her policies. But what makes her better than any other democrat just a bit left of the party platform?

I see hillary Clinton as the one active political figure in our country today that truly embodies the political corruption that caused the trump phenomenon to become a thing. I see her as an exaggerated archetype of a corrupt politician you would find on a tv show, but just in real life. I think it is almost comical the kinds of things she can get away with.

So I have some questions for the enthusiastic hillary supporter.

Do you think we need to change the Washington status quo?
Do you think she will she change the Washington status quo?
Do you think she is trustworthy?
What specifically has she achieved (any office she has held, primarily attributed to her) that has improved our country?
Do you think that she is corrupt?
Do you believe that she is honestly not representing the "big banks on wall street" when she receives large donations from them?
Given a consistent record of inconsistent views, do you believe she will keep to the platform she is campaigning on when elected?
Is her gender part of the reason you support her?
Do you find any hypocrisy in her platform, actions, or words?



I don't mean any disrespect, I honestly just don't understand why some high information voters would enthusiastically support her.

I'm happy to try and answer your questions since you were so polite about it.

Do you think we need to change the Washington status quo?

No, not really. I'm a Republican who's concluded that the GOP needs to be torn down and rebuilt and that those Republicans voting for Trump because they are 'tired of the establishment' have received exactly what was advertised from the Republican Party.

Do you think she will she change the Washington status quo?

No but I think a President Clinton and a Speaker Ryan could be an effective if combative partnership.

Do you think she is trustworthy?

Yes.

What specifically has she achieved (any office she has held, primarily attributed to her) that has improved our country?

Unless you are the actual author of a bill or are allowed to have free reign as a cabinet office its difficult to show tangible 'achievements' at the federal level. That being said I admire her foreign policy positions and the battles she fought within the Obama Administration over critical matters of state. But off the top of my head I think she showed a solid ability to work within the confines of the legislature in her central efforts to put together the CHIP bill.

Do you think that she is corrupt?

No. But it wouldn't shock me if she was greedy, but not abnormally so.

Do you believe that she is honestly not representing the "big banks on wall street" when she receives large donations from them?

Yes. I'm completely unpersuaded by the argument that politicians are bought by political donations. I don't think the evidence bears it out and I think its a largely emotional response to our general malaise.

Given a consistent record of inconsistent views, do you believe she will keep to the platform she is campaigning on when elected?

What inconsistent views are you referring to specifically? I think she will generally govern as a center left President.

Is her gender part of the reason you support her?

No. But I do think if she was a man she wouldn't receive half of the flak that she does.

Do you find any hypocrisy in her platform, actions, or words?

Not that immediately comes to mind.
 
Re: Devout Hillary Supporters

My observation is that voters (on DP, at least) would rather use rhetoric to build up or break down opponents. Some voters want politicians to talk more about issues. Why not talk more about issues, yourselves?

You can see Hillary's stance on 31 major issues on her site if that is what you want. I have already stated that I agree with her on most all of them. What more do you want? Here's an example under Campaign Finance Reform

Our democracy should work for everyone, not just the wealthy and well-connected.
Hillary will:
Overturn Citizens United.
End secret, unaccountable money in politics.
Establish a small-donor matching system to amplify the voices of everyday Americans.

We have to end the flood of secret, unaccountable money that is distorting our elections, corrupting our political system, and drowning out the voices of too many everyday Americans. Our democracy should be about expanding the franchise, not charging an entrance fee.
HILLARY, SEPTEMBER 8, 2015

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/campaign-finance-reform/
 
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