Why the rest of the World should have a vote for the Presidency.

Glen Contrarian said:

Yeah, yeah, I know, among the overwhelming majority of scientists on the planet, none of them know how to think for themselves, and it's only the American "I'm-not-a-scientist-but-I-know-better-than-the-scientists" conservatives who really know what happened.

BTW, when you refer to the pause, has it ever occurred to you to look beyond that now-ended twelve-year stretch when the worldwide temperature DID go up, but not as much as predicted? Because if you looked at the rise from, say, 1900 (or even 1950) until now, you'd see that *gasp*, there really IS a "hockey stick" of temperature rise. In other words, your precious "pause" is nothing more than a classic example of statistical cherry-picking without going through the due diligence of looking at the WHOLE story.

It's freaking incredible - y'all have zero problem accepting the science when it comes to everything from general relativity to the ozone holes to quantum entanglement...but when it comes to global warming, well, THAT can't be right, huh?

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Go do some damn research, Jesus. Consensus DEBUNKED. Was debunked years ago. where ya been?

Yes, I refer to the pause, still going on, 19 years now. Temperatures go up, they go down, go up again, go down again... see the pattern? They were warmer previously. Hell, they were growing grapes, making wine in England during the medieval period, they are just starting to do so again, indicates a medieval warm period with higher temps than today... yano?

If warming goes in cycles, you know like seasons [ you do believe there is a summer and winter, correct?] and if it naturally warms up, would the temperature go up from winter to summer? Might it look like a hockey stick, depending on where you started your measurement? Ef yeah it would. Can we stop summer from coming? Hell no. Is summer man made, Again, hell no.

Noticed you didnt come back with anything at all to refute any of my points AND, you were wrong on the pause, again, we are still in pause, CO2 is just a rising on up, increasing daily but, dang, nada, zilch, where is all the additional warmth as predicted by the climate models? Huh?

So, in fact you would believe your media and its story tellers if they told you there were cars on mars, huh?

Weak, feeble, lazy. Yeah, ya ll tried to get us to fall for the Alar scare, Nuclear Energy scare, running out of natural resources scare, global cooling then global warming now climate change scares, acid rain scare, overpopulation scare, mass starvation/famines scare, DDT scare... would ya ll just cut the crap on that side? You waste so much of our time with such silliness, and people die as a result, people are injured physically and financially with all this bunk you leave at our doorstep and when its debunked you run over to the next fear mongering debacle to threaten us with.

We are all pretty damned tired of it.

Glen Contrarian said:

Oh, and one more thing - I used to be a strong conservative...until the rise of the Religious Right, until I watched the Right laugh with glee while Oliver North obviously lied through his teeth under oath about selling missiles to Iran. Even today, who's the frontrunner in the GOP? Trump...even after he's been caught in lie after lie after lie, even after he called for all Muslims to be registered (just as Jews were under the Nazis). The Right has gone insane, and is plainly willing to vote for whoever's the most outrageous liar among all the candidates.

I loved Reagan - I really did - and George H.W. Bush was a very good president in his own right...but neither one of them would stand a chance in today's GOP. Reagan once said that he didn't leave the Democratic party, but that the Democratic party left him...and I understand just what he meant, because today's GOP is MUCH farther to the Right than it was in his day, than it was when I was a Republican. I didn't leave the GOP - the GOP left me.

You refer to "independent thought". Sir, it takes independent thought to leave the political party one was raised in and believed in. It takes not only independent thought, but courage to stand before one's whole birth family and reject the political beliefs they held so dear. In other words, one of us does indeed practice independent thought...and it ain't you.

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You really do need to know much more about the history. One of the major segments of voters that got good old Ronald Reagan elected was the religious right.

I am a conservative, not a republican, there is a difference, especially now. Jeb Bush is a Republican, so was his brother and father, too wishy washy generally for me. Conservatives believe in the Constitution, in free enterprise, hard work and personal responsibility, deeply in our 1st and 2nd amendment rights...Looks like you went to the democrat party. Have you actually openly looked at the lies Obama, the Clintons, Pelosi and Reid tell? Hillary is about to get indicted, I mean for real, she effed up big time and they gotta take her down. If not too many of the rest of us are going to give up on the system, go Clive Bundy on them. There is a real weariness out here...

Gaius46 said:

World government is probably inevitable. Ever increasing complexity appears to be built into the fabric of nature. We've gone from city states to national governments to empires. World government seems a natural extension of that.

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Well said. It's interesting that you didn't put it in terms of right or wrong, or desirable or undesirable, but a matter of human evolution.

Glen Contrarian said:

Well said. It's interesting that you didn't put it in terms of right or wrong, or desirable or undesirable, but a matter of human evolution.

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Yes, and I wonder if democracy will be involved. I mean, it works with small populations but seems to gain weight as populations grow until it's just too cumbersome to be effective. Democracy on a national level looks like it absorbs 'way too much energy and resources and just pretends to be democracy.
Dictatorship looks inevitable if it's world government on the table.

Manc Skipper said:

She's kind of got something here, we're all agog watching the car crash from afar, knowing we will be collateral damage.

" We're only halfway through, and I’m already sick of the US presidential race. As reality television goes, it’s a hackneyed format. The narrative is childish and simplistic. And if I want to watch a bunch of interchangeable thuggish white men and the occasional token minority making terrifying pronouncements to a pounding rock soundtrack, I’ll stick on a Tarantino film.
American commentators often point out that the whole two-year, multibillion-dollar pageant is a great way to distract the entire US electorate from the real-life daily process of democracy. Imagine how the rest of us feel. We’re not even allowed to vote and help decide which candidate gets to go home with all those fabulous prizes, which include a free plane and the largest military arsenal the world has ever known. What can I say? It’s America. They have high expectations. In Britain, whoever Rupert Murdoch picks is usually just excited to meet the Queen. ..."

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2016/02/why-rest-world-should-get-vote-greatest-reality-tv-show-earth-us-election

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1776, look it up.

You lost, we are independent.

Feel free to come and live here if you want a vote.

Manc Skipper said:

She's kind of got something here, we're all agog watching the car crash from afar, knowing we will be collateral damage.

" We're only halfway through, and I’m already sick of the US presidential race. As reality television goes, it’s a hackneyed format. The narrative is childish and simplistic. And if I want to watch a bunch of interchangeable thuggish white men and the occasional token minority making terrifying pronouncements to a pounding rock soundtrack, I’ll stick on a Tarantino film.
American commentators often point out that the whole two-year, multibillion-dollar pageant is a great way to distract the entire US electorate from the real-life daily process of democracy. Imagine how the rest of us feel. We’re not even allowed to vote and help decide which candidate gets to go home with all those fabulous prizes, which include a free plane and the largest military arsenal the world has ever known. What can I say? It’s America. They have high expectations. In Britain, whoever Rupert Murdoch picks is usually just excited to meet the Queen. ..."

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2016/02/why-rest-world-should-get-vote-greatest-reality-tv-show-earth-us-election

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Well yea, the rest of the World seemed to support Obama and look at the mess he's created We're a huge block of the Worlds consumers so why anyone anywhere would want to see a Progressive get elected as President of the US is beyond me.

Gaugingcatenate said:

Go do some damn research, Jesus. Consensus DEBUNKED. Was debunked years ago. where ya been?

Yes, I refer to the pause, still going on, 19 years now. Temperatures go up, they go down, go up again, go down again... see the pattern? They were warmer previously. Hell, they were growing grapes, making wine in England during the medieval period, they are just starting to do so again, indicates a medieval warm period with higher temps than today... yano?

If warming goes in cycles, you know like seasons [ you do believe there is a summer and winter, correct?] and if it naturally warms up, would the temperature go up from winter to summer? Might it look like a hockey stick, depending on where you started your measurement? Ef yeah it would. Can we stop summer from coming? Hell no. Is summer man made, Again, hell no.

Noticed you didnt come back with anything at all to refute any of my points AND, you were wrong on the pause, again, we are still in pause, CO2 is just a rising on up, increasing daily but, dang, nada, zilch, where is all the additional warmth as predicted by the climate models? Huh?

So, in fact you would believe your media and its story tellers if they told you there were cars on mars, huh?

Weak, feeble, lazy. Yeah, ya ll tried to get us to fall for the Alar scare, Nuclear Energy scare, running out of natural resources scare, global cooling then global warming now climate change scares, acid rain scare, overpopulation scare, mass starvation/famines scare, DDT scare... would ya ll just cut the crap on that side? You waste so much of our time with such silliness, and people die as a result, people are injured physically and financially with all this bunk you leave at our doorstep and when its debunked you run over to the next fear mongering debacle to threaten us with.

We are all pretty damned tired of it.

Click to expand...

You claiming that AGW has been debunked is no different from claiming that evolution has been debunked, or that general relativity has been debunked. You can cherry-pick all the little crap that the right-wing echo chamber tells you about...but this is science. Not politics. Science.

And when it comes to overpopulation, since you mentioned it, go live for a while in a city of 15M people (like I have) and then come back and tell me about how overpopulation is a bunch of hooey.

Manc Skipper said:

She's kind of got something here, we're all agog watching the car crash from afar, knowing we will be collateral damage.

" We're only halfway through, and I’m already sick of the US presidential race. As reality television goes, it’s a hackneyed format. The narrative is childish and simplistic. And if I want to watch a bunch of interchangeable thuggish white men and the occasional token minority making terrifying pronouncements to a pounding rock soundtrack, I’ll stick on a Tarantino film.
American commentators often point out that the whole two-year, multibillion-dollar pageant is a great way to distract the entire US electorate from the real-life daily process of democracy. Imagine how the rest of us feel. We’re not even allowed to vote and help decide which candidate gets to go home with all those fabulous prizes, which include a free plane and the largest military arsenal the world has ever known. What can I say? It’s America. They have high expectations. In Britain, whoever Rupert Murdoch picks is usually just excited to meet the Queen. ..."

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2016/02/why-rest-world-should-get-vote-greatest-reality-tv-show-earth-us-election

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I suppose as soon as the US citizens have the same opportunity to vote in UK elections, eh?

Wouldn't that a fine mess make, when the US electorate injects a much needed dose of conservatism back into UK politics. Hmm.
Liking this idea. :mrgreen:

LOL.

Manc Skipper said:

She's kind of got something here, we're all agog watching the car crash from afar, knowing we will be collateral damage.

" We're only halfway through, and I’m already sick of the US presidential race. As reality television goes, it’s a hackneyed format. The narrative is childish and simplistic. And if I want to watch a bunch of interchangeable thuggish white men and the occasional token minority making terrifying pronouncements to a pounding rock soundtrack, I’ll stick on a Tarantino film.
American commentators often point out that the whole two-year, multibillion-dollar pageant is a great way to distract the entire US electorate from the real-life daily process of democracy. Imagine how the rest of us feel. We’re not even allowed to vote and help decide which candidate gets to go home with all those fabulous prizes, which include a free plane and the largest military arsenal the world has ever known. What can I say? It’s America. They have high expectations. In Britain, whoever Rupert Murdoch picks is usually just excited to meet the Queen. ..."

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2016/02/why-rest-world-should-get-vote-greatest-reality-tv-show-earth-us-election

Click to expand...

No, she doesn't have anything. I'd be willing to bet she wouldn't think it a two-way street.

I generally agree with her.

But the reason Americans have 'high expectations' is because the average American is galactically naive, imo.

I am serious, I have been a lot of places, and it is amazing now innocent about the ways of the world SO many (though by no means all) Americans are.

I guess when you are 'all powerful', you don't give a **** what is happening beyond your fences.

Also, the fact America is BY FAR the most religious medium/major country in the West is a large part of it as well, imo. Religious people tend to be VERY gullible. They would have to be to buy into the utter nonsense of God Clubs. Not trying to offend them, but they are. To base your life/believes on some ridiculous book that was written thousands of years ago by some guy/gal that no one knows is silly in the extremis.

Mapped: These are the world's most religious countries - Telegraph

Glen Contrarian said:

You claiming that AGW has been debunked is no different from claiming that evolution has been debunked, or that general relativity has been debunked. You can cherry-pick all the little crap that the right-wing echo chamber tells you about...but this is science. Not politics. Science.

And when it comes to overpopulation, since you mentioned it, go live for a while in a city of 15M people (like I have) and then come back and tell me about how overpopulation is a bunch of hooey.

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My actual claims, and you haven't the capacity to debunk them, is that we have no real idea, at best, which way climate will go. You can say you do, your folks cannot model it correctly, have predicted it wrong and have only excuses and sophistry, not science, as to why they have been mistaken. And that your side is willing to put our economy at risk for such silliness borders on criminal. Not to mention almost suicidally imbecilic.

And for the record, you also have no way to prove anything but slow change over time as regards Evolution. To say that our origins derive from a primordial ooze are simply vacuous and more to the point, unprovable.

That certain cities on the planet are overpopulated is your argument? I lived in Florida, 4th most populous state of the union and could still drive down many parts of I 75 in fairly close proximity to the west coast of that state, and the coasts are where the population is concentrated, and at 70 miles an hour view long stretches where you don't see a house, a barn, any habitable structures. Go down the middle of the state and below Orlando all the way down to the Keys and you will find vast woodlands, tracts of only farmland, not many homes and wide open areas. Overpopulated my ass. Populations are not even maintaining themselves, its already a real problem in Europe, just the tip of the iceberg as to what long-term adherence to leftist thought will bring down upon the society. Many suggest population will peak in 2050 and then start to decline. Again, nobody knows for sure, but the dire predictions were wildly, grossly overstated.

I don't have enough interest in general relativity, nor have studied it sufficiently as to give you an opinion of whether it is bunk or not.

It's no surprise, it's written by Laurie Penny.
Who peddles gender conflict politics to support herself.

Read it and basically "I hate Republicans, Democrats should be more progressive."
No thanks Laurie, you're a untalented hack.

Manc Skipper said:

She's kind of got something here, we're all agog watching the car crash from afar, knowing we will be collateral damage.

" We're only halfway through, and I’m already sick of the US presidential race. As reality television goes, it’s a hackneyed format. The narrative is childish and simplistic. And if I want to watch a bunch of interchangeable thuggish white men and the occasional token minority making terrifying pronouncements to a pounding rock soundtrack, I’ll stick on a Tarantino film.
American commentators often point out that the whole two-year, multibillion-dollar pageant is a great way to distract the entire US electorate from the real-life daily process of democracy. Imagine how the rest of us feel. We’re not even allowed to vote and help decide which candidate gets to go home with all those fabulous prizes, which include a free plane and the largest military arsenal the world has ever known. What can I say? It’s America. They have high expectations. In Britain, whoever Rupert Murdoch picks is usually just excited to meet the Queen. ..."

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2016/02/why-rest-world-should-get-vote-greatest-reality-tv-show-earth-us-election

Click to expand...

Back in 2004 I was active on a board based overseas. I was utterly amazed at how passionate people living on the other side of the world were about American Presidential politics. 99.999999% of Americans couldn't even name their president, let alone care an iota about the outcome of their elections. It was amazing to see.

By the way, I got on that board to try to understand the anti-Americanism that was going on at the time in other parts of the world. Yep, most of them ridiculed this country at every opportunity, called our leaders evil, had nothing good to say about average Americans defining us as stupid.

Shocker of all shockers: despite the strong anti-Americanism coming out of one side of their mouths, they idolized us. They wanted their country to emulate America. They want their constitutions to mirror ours. They want to enjoy all the technological advancements we developed and got frustrated when something new came out and it wasn't there the same time it came out here. Bragging about how their big shopping mall had bluetooth technology wired into the infatructure that would send you notifications of sales as you approached different stores. On that note, when they weren't calling us stupid, they seemed to have a strange longing for me as an American and Americans in general to think of their country as being just as advanced as theirs, be it technologically or culturally. The only thing they seemed more passionate about than American politics was making sure I knew they were a modern society with nice shopping malls, smart phones, satellite TV that got all the American shows, etc. It was real important to them that I knew how far they'd come despite being in the third world. It was like when Uncle Smeagol comes over, lets show him our report cards so that he can be proud of us. LOL They loved American movies. They loved American music and almost did cartwheels whenever news came out that one of our pop stars was doing a concert tour in their country. And again, passionate about American politics down to the "swing-state" dynamic.

My conclusion was they had/have a combination of extreme admiration for us, so much so when we disappoint them it was hurtful as if their hero failed them and then some jealousy mixed in.