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Could Trump win the General Election?

Skeptic Bob

Skeptic Bob

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The polls say no. My own judgement says no. But lately that judgement has started to waiver.

Regardless of how much I dislike Trump and what few policies he has put forth, he has proven himself a freaking savant when it comes to manipulating the media and the masses. Using methods that defy common sense and conventional thinking, he has won over the Republican base despite espousing policies that are demonstrably non-conservative.

People aren't inspired by Trump's policies. They are inspired by Trump.

If all of this has been part of his plan, and not some fluke, then one would assume if he wins the primaries he will switch gears and will tailor his rhetoric to a larger audience. Don't get me wrong, the rhetoric will still be outlandish and devoid of much substance, but it will be sure to inspire.

We at DP aren't the typical voters. We take an active interest in politics and policies and gain pleasure from debating their merits and shortcomings. The typical voter tends to be more "low information". Such voters, be they Republican, Democrat, or Independent, will be much more susceptible to being swept up in Trump's cult of personality. He comes across to such people as strong, and anti-establishment. He sure as hell doesn't toe the party line. He is in reality what McCain pretended to be. A maverick. For people who want "change" there is little doubt that Trump would bring that.

Don't get me wrong. I hate Trump. I think he would be a horrible President. But as I said, I think he is a master at manipulating the media and the public. And when it comes time to appeal to a larger base, he will know how to adjust course, even if the way he does it seems on the surface self destructive to many of us.

I hope I am wrong.
 
As bad as Trump is his winning the general would likely lead to better domestic policy than any of the Democrats. Our international relations will be shot to hell no matter who wins.

I never really gave a lot of serious thought to this country actually falling apart but that prospect is definitely on the near horizon.
 
BrewerBob said:
The polls say no. My own judgement says no. But lately that judgement has started to waiver.

Regardless of how much I dislike Trump and what few policies he has put forth, he has proven himself a freaking savant when it comes to manipulating the media and the masses. Using methods that defy common sense and conventional thinking, he has won over the Republican base despite espousing policies that are demonstrably non-conservative.

People aren't inspired by Trump's policies. They are inspired by Trump.

If all of this has been part of his plan, and not some fluke, then one would assume if he wins the primaries he will switch gears and will tailor his rhetoric to a larger audience. Don't get me wrong, the rhetoric will still be outlandish and devoid of much substance, but it will be sure to inspire.

We at DP aren't the typical voters. We take an active interest in politics and policies and gain pleasure from debating their merits and shortcomings. The typical voter tends to be more "low information". Such voters, be they Republican, Democrat, or Independent, will be much more susceptible to being swept up in Trump's cult of personality. He comes across to such people as strong, and anti-establishment. He sure as hell doesn't toe the party line. He is in reality what McCain pretended to be. A maverick. For people who want "change" there is little doubt that Trump would bring that.

Don't get me wrong. I hate Trump. I think he would be a horrible President. But as I said, I think he is a master at manipulating the media and the public. And when it comes time to appeal to a larger base, he will know how to adjust course, even if the way he does it seems on the surface self destructive to many of us.

I hope I am wrong.
Click to expand...


Excellent qualifications for a world leader.
 
Lutherf said:
As bad as Trump is his winning the general would likely lead to better domestic policy than any of the Democrats. Our international relations will be shot to hell no matter who wins.

I never really gave a lot of serious thought to this country actually falling apart but that prospect is definitely on the near horizon.
Click to expand...



I see it dividing, but in the end the result is the same. But then I see that despite who wins this election, maybe just a lot sooner with Trump
 
Fearandloathing said:
I see it dividing, but in the end the result is the same. But then I see that despite who wins this election, maybe just a lot sooner with Trump
Click to expand...

My man, America is toast. Nobody, Republican of Democrat, is actively talking about the ability of the American people, free to choose what works best for them, building this nation back up to the powerhouse it was.

We had a ginormous economic boom in through the late 1800's through the 20's. There were definitely some shady deals that went down but on the whole we succeeded as no others had before us! In the late 20's and through the mid 40's we we had a rough time but folks were constantly looking for ways to make it work and when Europe needed us so that they could rebuild we were there in spades. The whole world prospered as we rebuilt. During the Cold War it was the prospect of having to deal with America that kept the world from falling into some Stalinesque "utopia" of toilet paper lines and dacha's on the lake for the party elite.

Today it's different. The world, having become accustomed to the abundance which they and their forebears have created, are now prepared to sit on their laurels and wait for "somebody else" to provide the bread and wine. They have forgotten the sweat and tears they suffered and have mortgaged their future and that of their progeny to the beast they have created.

In watching the debate tonight I didn't see one single leader. I saw a bunch of guys with various perspective on what we have done to ourselves but none who were willing to take the reins and lead us back to independence. On the other side I see two who are more than willing to take those reins but both have designs on leading us down a path to submission and despair.

Next January we will have a new president. That much we know. What I know is that 12 months from now the American people are going to have to decide for themselves whether they will stand defiant and beat back the monster they have allowed into their home or whether they will adopt that monster as their destiny. We, the American people, are truly on our own in a way we haven't been for 240 years and it will be our response to that independence that determines our future.
 
Lutherf said:
What I know is that 12 months from now the American people are going to have to decide for themselves whether they will stand defiant and beat back the monster they have allowed into their home or whether they will adopt that monster as their destiny.
Click to expand...

Oh God......:roll:
 
Lutherf said:
As bad as Trump is his winning the general would likely lead to better domestic policy than any of the Democrats. Our international relations will be shot to hell no matter who wins.

I never really gave a lot of serious thought to this country actually falling apart but that prospect is definitely on the near horizon.
Click to expand...
It depends upon your definition of better domestic policy. If you mean making the Bush tax cuts look tame, then yes. If you mean a fascist immigration policy, then yes. If you mean trying to implement unworkable policies, then yes.
 
Lutherf said:
As bad as Trump is his winning the general would likely lead to better domestic policy than any of the Democrats. Our international relations will be shot to hell no matter who wins.

I never really gave a lot of serious thought to this country actually falling apart but that prospect is definitely on the near horizon.
Click to expand...

Why would your international relations be 'shot to hell' if Trump became President? Many of us foreigners would see him as a breath of fresh air, much needed to replace that stale miasma inside the bubble. It is not only in the US that the professional political class has come to be distrusted.
 
Lutherf said:
My man, America is toast. Nobody, Republican of Democrat, is actively talking about the ability of the American people, free to choose what works best for them, building this nation back up to the powerhouse it was.

We had a ginormous economic boom in through the late 1800's through the 20's. There were definitely some shady deals that went down but on the whole we succeeded as no others had before us! In the late 20's and through the mid 40's we we had a rough time but folks were constantly looking for ways to make it work and when Europe needed us so that they could rebuild we were there in spades. The whole world prospered as we rebuilt. During the Cold War it was the prospect of having to deal with America that kept the world from falling into some Stalinesque "utopia" of toilet paper lines and dacha's on the lake for the party elite.

Today it's different. The world, having become accustomed to the abundance which they and their forebears have created, are now prepared to sit on their laurels and wait for "somebody else" to provide the bread and wine. They have forgotten the sweat and tears they suffered and have mortgaged their future and that of their progeny to the beast they have created.

In watching the debate tonight I didn't see one single leader. I saw a bunch of guys with various perspective on what we have done to ourselves but none who were willing to take the reins and lead us back to independence. On the other side I see two who are more than willing to take those reins but both have designs on leading us down a path to submission and despair.

Next January we will have a new president. That much we know. What I know is that 12 months from now the American people are going to have to decide for themselves whether they will stand defiant and beat back the monster they have allowed into their home or whether they will adopt that monster as their destiny. We, the American people, are truly on our own in a way we haven't been for 240 years and it will be our response to that independence that determines our future.
Click to expand...

The voting date is November 8, 2016.
 
If the dems had an Obama type candidate, Trump would lose by at least ten points - perhaps much much more going back to the 64 Goldwater race. With Clinton as the nominee - I see perhaps a six to eight point win.
 
BrewerBob said:
The polls say no. My own judgement says no. But lately that judgement has started to waiver.

Regardless of how much I dislike Trump and what few policies he has put forth, he has proven himself a freaking savant when it comes to manipulating the media and the masses. Using methods that defy common sense and conventional thinking, he has won over the Republican base despite espousing policies that are demonstrably non-conservative.

People aren't inspired by Trump's policies. They are inspired by Trump.

If all of this has been part of his plan, and not some fluke, then one would assume if he wins the primaries he will switch gears and will tailor his rhetoric to a larger audience. Don't get me wrong, the rhetoric will still be outlandish and devoid of much substance, but it will be sure to inspire.

We at DP aren't the typical voters. We take an active interest in politics and policies and gain pleasure from debating their merits and shortcomings. The typical voter tends to be more "low information". Such voters, be they Republican, Democrat, or Independent, will be much more susceptible to being swept up in Trump's cult of personality. He comes across to such people as strong, and anti-establishment. He sure as hell doesn't toe the party line. He is in reality what McCain pretended to be. A maverick. For people who want "change" there is little doubt that Trump would bring that.

Don't get me wrong. I hate Trump. I think he would be a horrible President. But as I said, I think he is a master at manipulating the media and the public. And when it comes time to appeal to a larger base, he will know how to adjust course, even if the way he does it seems on the surface self destructive to many of us.

I hope I am wrong.
Click to expand...

I hope not also. That said if this Nation is Stupid enough to put The Donald in the Whitehouse then they deserve whatever they get, it will not be good. Businessmen/Non-Politicians that have made to power in other Nations have always been a huge failure and The Donald would be no different. I believe that I would lose all interest in US politics at that point, being that in my opinion is that a Donald Presidency would be proof positive that this Nation has run it's course as a Grand Experiment in Democracy. I believe the world will be far worse off without the USA in the position it currently holds and that its fall would also result in the dissolution of the Union and become several small Nations that while they may be aligned together by treaty will no longer be what the Founders had envisioned. Hopefully one of the new Nations formed will learn from our mistakes and do a better job, and that may be nothing more than a Pipe Dream. We shall see how stupid The People have truly become in November, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
 
Fearandloathing said:
I see it dividing, but in the end the result is the same. But then I see that despite who wins this election, maybe just a lot sooner with Trump
Click to expand...

How could we be any more divided than we are now? In my ever increasingly long life, I don't remember a time when the nation was as split or there was as much hatefulness and judgmentalism and destructive partisanship/ideology as there is now. Our current fearless leader has contributed a tremendous amount to that, but the whole fault isn't his. And if we lose the courts to the current anti-constitutional partisan ultra-liberal dynamics that are driving that divisiveness, I don't know if the country could ever recover in any of our lifetimes. Hillary Clinton wants to appoint Barack Obama to the Supreme Court!!

The Donald isn't really on my short list as preferred nominee any more, but if he is the candidate, I will sure be voting for him given the dangers of the alternative. In this case, I see it as much less risky to go with the devil we don't know as it would be to go with the one we do know. At least we would have a chance to have a President who would do a decent job in office. And yes, given the amount of anger there is out there at the damage the government has done to this country, I think the Donald could win against a third Obama term.
 
AlbqOwl said:
How could we be any more divided than we are now? In my ever increasingly long life, I don't remember a time when the nation was as split or there was as much hatefulness and judgmentalism and destructive partisanship/ideology as there is now. Our current fearless leader has contributed a tremendous amount to that, but the whole fault isn't his. And if we lose the courts to the current anti-constitutional partisan ultra-liberal dynamics that are driving that divisiveness, I don't know if the country could ever recover in any of our lifetimes. Hillary Clinton wants to appoint Barack Obama to the Supreme Court!!

The Donald isn't really on my short list as preferred nominee any more, but if he is the candidate, I will sure be voting for him given the dangers of the alternative. In this case, I see it as much less risky to go with the devil we don't know as it would be to go with the one we do know. At least we would have a chance to have a President who would do a decent job in office. And yes, given the amount of anger there is out there at the damage the government has done to this country, I think the Donald could win against a third Obama term.
Click to expand...


Seriously? You think this is the worst? Do you think Donald is going to re-unite or divide? Do you think Hillary will be much different than Obama and his "enemies" bull****?

Trump divides. HE has created chasms with simple statements.
 
Lutherf said:
My man, America is toast. Nobody, Republican of Democrat, is actively talking about the ability of the American people, free to choose what works best for them, building this nation back up to the powerhouse it was.

We had a ginormous economic boom in through the late 1800's through the 20's. There were definitely some shady deals that went down but on the whole we succeeded as no others had before us! In the late 20's and through the mid 40's we we had a rough time but folks were constantly looking for ways to make it work and when Europe needed us so that they could rebuild we were there in spades. The whole world prospered as we rebuilt. During the Cold War it was the prospect of having to deal with America that kept the world from falling into some Stalinesque "utopia" of toilet paper lines and dacha's on the lake for the party elite.

Today it's different. The world, having become accustomed to the abundance which they and their forebears have created, are now prepared to sit on their laurels and wait for "somebody else" to provide the bread and wine. They have forgotten the sweat and tears they suffered and have mortgaged their future and that of their progeny to the beast they have created.

In watching the debate tonight I didn't see one single leader. I saw a bunch of guys with various perspective on what we have done to ourselves but none who were willing to take the reins and lead us back to independence. On the other side I see two who are more than willing to take those reins but both have designs on leading us down a path to submission and despair.

Next January we will have a new president. That much we know. What I know is that 12 months from now the American people are going to have to decide for themselves whether they will stand defiant and beat back the monster they have allowed into their home or whether they will adopt that monster as their destiny. We, the American people, are truly on our own in a way we haven't been for 240 years and it will be our response to that independence that determines our future.
Click to expand...

Likely one of the most well written posts in the history of this forum, and sad as hell. And you are right. I continue to compare the US of 1942 to today and come away with the same conclusion. I have read extensively on the early war years, and everyone, including Canada figured it was over, we would be speaking Japanese.....and then proceeded to almost single handedly crush the Imperial Japanese forces.

I compare that to the Wallstreet raid on America of 2007, and how everyone simply went along with the surrender....just hand them money and suffer for ten years. Bernie Sanders has said one thing I agree with, any company that is too big too fail is too big to exist.

Yes, next January you will have a new personality sworn in, but we have been seeing new personalities since George Bush the elder, and not one thing has changed. There is no resolution on any of the issues, in fact because of Obama solutions are further than they have ever been. Certainly there is some common ground on "gun control" but you will never get there when politicians ram **** down your throats, **** that won't make a difference anyway. What each of these "issues" needs is leadership, not politics.

A strong leader is one who will find common ground and then use the powers he has been given by the people to bring people along in change, which America seems to fear as much as Europeans. But the people have to see the sense in whatever change, and be convinced it is an improvement.

In the meantime, the "elected" chase every mouse thrown at them. Shooting incidents become polarized, the victims forgotten, while the president makes sure the Confederate flag is held responsible, and more hate grows.

I have said this time and again, America's "enemies" all have zip codes
 
Last edited:
BrewerBob said:
The polls say no. My own judgement says no. But lately that judgement has started to waiver.

Regardless of how much I dislike Trump and what few policies he has put forth, he has proven himself a freaking savant when it comes to manipulating the media and the masses. Using methods that defy common sense and conventional thinking, he has won over the Republican base despite espousing policies that are demonstrably non-conservative.

People aren't inspired by Trump's policies. They are inspired by Trump.

If all of this has been part of his plan, and not some fluke, then one would assume if he wins the primaries he will switch gears and will tailor his rhetoric to a larger audience. Don't get me wrong, the rhetoric will still be outlandish and devoid of much substance, but it will be sure to inspire.

We at DP aren't the typical voters. We take an active interest in politics and policies and gain pleasure from debating their merits and shortcomings. The typical voter tends to be more "low information". Such voters, be they Republican, Democrat, or Independent, will be much more susceptible to being swept up in Trump's cult of personality. He comes across to such people as strong, and anti-establishment. He sure as hell doesn't toe the party line. He is in reality what McCain pretended to be. A maverick. For people who want "change" there is little doubt that Trump would bring that.

Don't get me wrong. I hate Trump. I think he would be a horrible President. But as I said, I think he is a master at manipulating the media and the public. And when it comes time to appeal to a larger base, he will know how to adjust course, even if the way he does it seems on the surface self destructive to many of us.

I hope I am wrong.
Click to expand...

No. He can't win, IMHO. Impossible? No. Nothing of that nature is impossible. But, he has about the same shot as Barry Goldwater, except Trump would win a few more states, especially the solid Red ones in the South and MidWest.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Seriously? You think this is the worst? Do you think Donald is going to re-unite or divide? Do you think Hillary will be much different than Obama and his "enemies" bull****?

Trump divides. HE has created chasms with simple statements.
Click to expand...

He has not divided anywhere near to the extent that Obama has divided and Hillary has already promised a third Obama term. Trump doesn't pit race against race, conservative against liberal, traditional against political correctness like Obama and Hillary do. He has taken on both the establishment in both parties and the political correctness police everywhere and done his own thing while he speaks to those from both parties and the independents who are completely fed up with politics as usual and a government that exists only for its own benefit and a political correctness mindset that threatens to destroy most of our constitutional protections.

Would that be a good thing or a bad thing in a President? I don't know. We've never tried it. He might be absolutely awful. And he might be as brilliant a President as he has run a brilliant campaign. Since we know that Hillary would be disastrous for our courts, our liberties, and there is no chance to achieve any kind of unity with somebody like her in charge, I would gamble on the Donald if he happens to be the GOP nominee.
 
AlbqOwl said:
He has not divided anywhere near to the extent that Obama has divided and Hillary has already promised a third Obama term. Trump doesn't pit race against race, conservative against liberal, traditional against political correctness like Obama and Hillary do. He has taken on both the establishment in both parties and the political correctness police everywhere and done his own thing while he speaks to those from both parties and the independents who are completely fed up with politics as usual and a government that exists only for its own benefit and a political correctness mindset that threatens to destroy most of our constitutional protections.

Would that be a good thing or a bad thing in a President? I don't know. We've never tried it. He might be absolutely awful. And he might be as brilliant a President as he has run a brilliant campaign. Since we know that Hillary would be disastrous for our courts, our liberties, and there is no chance to achieve any kind of unity with somebody like her in charge, I would gamble on the Donald if he happens to be the GOP nominee.
Click to expand...



"I will ban all Islamic Immigration" isn't divisive, no, not at all.

With that one line the man has become the source of abject hate across the developed world. I suggest you need to take a much closer look at this "candidate".
 
AlbqOwl said:
He has not divided anywhere near to the extent that Obama has divided and Hillary has already promised a third Obama term. Trump doesn't pit race against race, conservative against liberal, traditional against political correctness like Obama and Hillary do. He has taken on both the establishment in both parties and the political correctness police everywhere and done his own thing while he speaks to those from both parties and the independents who are completely fed up with politics as usual and a government that exists only for its own benefit and a political correctness mindset that threatens to destroy most of our constitutional protections.

Would that be a good thing or a bad thing in a President? I don't know. We've never tried it. He might be absolutely awful. And he might be as brilliant a President as he has run a brilliant campaign. Since we know that Hillary would be disastrous for our courts, our liberties, and there is no chance to achieve any kind of unity with somebody like her in charge, I would gamble on the Donald if he happens to be the GOP nominee.
Click to expand...

I don't think Trump will win a national election because his negatives are just too high and there are just too many who can't bring themselves to vote for him. Maybe if he would take the time to read George Washington's Rules of Civility & Decent Behaviour in Company and Conversation maybe he could turn that around.

Rules of Civility, Transcription | Papers of George Washington
 
Lutherf said:
My man, America is toast. Nobody, Republican of Democrat, is actively talking about the ability of the American people, free to choose what works best for them, building this nation back up to the powerhouse it was.

We had a ginormous economic boom in through the late 1800's through the 20's. There were definitely some shady deals that went down but on the whole we succeeded as no others had before us! In the late 20's and through the mid 40's we we had a rough time but folks were constantly looking for ways to make it work and when Europe needed us so that they could rebuild we were there in spades. The whole world prospered as we rebuilt. During the Cold War it was the prospect of having to deal with America that kept the world from falling into some Stalinesque "utopia" of toilet paper lines and dacha's on the lake for the party elite.

Today it's different. The world, having become accustomed to the abundance which they and their forebears have created, are now prepared to sit on their laurels and wait for "somebody else" to provide the bread and wine. They have forgotten the sweat and tears they suffered and have mortgaged their future and that of their progeny to the beast they have created.

In watching the debate tonight I didn't see one single leader. I saw a bunch of guys with various perspective on what we have done to ourselves but none who were willing to take the reins and lead us back to independence. On the other side I see two who are more than willing to take those reins but both have designs on leading us down a path to submission and despair.

Next January we will have a new president. That much we know. What I know is that 12 months from now the American people are going to have to decide for themselves whether they will stand defiant and beat back the monster they have allowed into their home or whether they will adopt that monster as their destiny. We, the American people, are truly on our own in a way we haven't been for 240 years and it will be our response to that independence that determines our future.
Click to expand...
Well said.

There's no one on the active horizon left or right fit for the Presidency.

The people will indeed have to "stand defiant and beat back the monster" ..

.. Which is why I've joined those who also realize this ..

.. And I completely support PAPA.
 
I can see Trump winning. He is a crossover, trans-party type. Perhaps like Independent Bloomberg in many ways. Certainly not right wing. A centrist with views all over the place that can appeal to people all over the place. There might be some advantages of a Trump Presidency. Suspect that Democrats and Republicans in Congress would all of a sudden show some backbone and stand up for the institution of Congress over the imperial Presidency. There might be a fraying of this destructive partisan politics with Conservatives, GOP Establishment types, and many Democrats being completely opposed to some of the Trump ideas. How can a Red State Blue State divide be maintained when the President is neither.

Hope that he is not the candidate but he would be better than some of these other types.
 
Fearandloathing said:
"I will ban all Islamic Immigration" isn't divisive, no, not at all.

With that one line the man has become the source of abject hate across the developed world. I suggest you need to take a much closer look at this "candidate".
Click to expand...

But he didn't say that. He said he would stop all Islamic immigration until we had some means to sort out who the hell we were allowing into the country. You can't take the sound bites that the media plucks out of the whole conversation or the hay his political opponents try to make out of it and use that to honestly portray the argument he is making. He sometimes says things without clarifying his full intent but if you take time to hear the full context over the period of time he is discussing it, that is almost always completely different than the sound bit the media uses to paint him as the devil incarnate. And if he is initially politically incorrect in his statements, well power to him. It is high time somebody had the balls to stand up to the PC police.

I don't want some one beloved by the whole world. I want somebody who can fix the things that are wrong. Maybe he can. Maybe he can't. But I am very sure that Hillary can't.
 
vesper said:
I don't think Trump will win a national election because his negatives are just too high and there are just too many who can't bring themselves to vote for him. Maybe if he would take the time to read George Washington's Rules of Civility & Decent Behaviour in Company and Conversation maybe he could turn that around.

Rules of Civility, Transcription | Papers of George Washington
Click to expand...

The 'civil' candidates aren't gaining any traction at all and have zero chance to beat Hillary Clinton. The fact that Trump has violated almost every concept of political correctness and says what people are actually thinking--however many interviews it takes him to get there--is why he is leaps and bounds ahead of everybody else in almost all the polls. Some of us are sick to death of the political correctness crap and WANT it to be said like it is. And I say that as one who doesn't have Trump on her short list or very high on her long list, but if he is the candidate, I will vote for him in hope against hope that Hillary Clinton is not the next President.
 
AlbqOwl said:
But he didn't say that. He said he would stop all Islamic immigration until we had some means to sort out who the hell we were allowing into the country. You can't take the sound bites that the media plucks out of the whole conversation or the hay his political opponents try to make out of it and use that to honestly portray the argument he is making. He sometimes says things without clarifying his full intent but if you take time to hear the full context over the period of time he is discussing it, that is almost always completely different than the sound bit the media uses to paint him as the devil incarnate. And if he is initially politically incorrect in his statements, well power to him. It is high time somebody had the balls to stand up to the PC police.

I don't want some one beloved by the whole world. I want somebody who can fix the things that are wrong. Maybe he can. Maybe he can't. But I am very sure that Hillary can't.
Click to expand...



Hair splitting. He's still a racist. He's still appealing to the red neck, survivalist vote.

Remember, he got the fist wave of support from his comments on Mexicans and building a wall. Can't think of much more defective and divisive words.

We can split hairs all you like, I see him as a blustering, bully reactionist with racist tendencies and a reptilian anger that will strike at anything that insults him. Donald Trump is not about America, worse than Obama, Trump is about Trump.

I will guarantee that if he wins the presidency, there will be a trade war with Mexico and Canada started in the first year. It will be exceedingly painful for everyone. You can say you don't care what the world thinks of him, but you will change that quickly when it starts to hurt. You get bare bones help in the middle east because the world hates the president you have now, you won't have any allies if this turd wins
 
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