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Could Trump win the General Election?

I disagree...

Trump is a crossover candidate, i know people who have never voted Republican in there lifes who are going for Trump. Infact, after Trumps Veterans gathering the otherday (while watching cspan), i would say 75% of the Trump supporters who called in were Democrats, i was a bit surprised by how many where going for Trump.

he's a novelty candidate who never should have made it out of the joke stage of the Republican primary.

All i think it's gonna take for Trump to gain the extra support he needs in a general election is a few debates with Hillary, i personally feel he will destroy her in a one on one. The great thing Trump has going for him is Hillary is almost as polorizing as he is, and with this Email scandal going on, i don't thinks it's gonna take much for him to gain the extra % points he will need to get past her.

no one cares about Benghazi CT except foxies who weren't going to vote for Clinton anyway. that being said, the fact that she has probably won the nomination before a vote has even been cast is just one more indictment of our stupid two party system.
 
Concur. If America chooses Trump, then we deserve what would come of it.

But I do feel bad for others.

My sympathy factor has limits.
 
i don't agree that he'll draw the majority of the middle in a general election.

I don't know about majorities - I said that's where his strength is, because it is. Union members like him, blue collar types like him, moderate/liberal Republicans and moderate/conservative Democrats.


Trump is the candidate for pro-war, pro-trickle down, anti-immigration neoconservatives.

No, all those things imply policy positions - Trump has attitudes. He is the candidate of people who are hurt (or perceive that they are hurt) by mass and illegal immigration and trade, and who feel that our politicians are effete losers who suck.

Neoconservatives [Charles Kraughthammer, William Kristol types] tend more to the Reformicon Ryan/Rubio side of the party.

Broadly, if you are ideologically oriented (in either direction), you aren't a Trump fan. If you think them snobs up in Washington are all idiot losers who look down on you while they're screwing you and the answer is a Strongman who can Get **** Done, then you are.

That's not a majority of voters.

I don't think a majority would vote for Trump. But I have a somewhat jaundiced regard for the American electorate.

don't feel too bad, though. the only candidate in either field that i support has almost no chance of winning the general, as well.

Well we'll see. :)
 
I don't know about majorities - I said that's where his strength is, because it is. Union members like him, blue collar types like him, moderate/liberal Republicans and moderate/conservative Democrats.

any union member who thinks that he's going to do anything good for union labor or labor rights in general is a bloody fool.

No, all those things imply policy positions - Trump has attitudes. He is the candidate of people who are hurt (or perceive that they are hurt) by mass and illegal immigration and trade, and who feel that our politicians are effete losers who suck.

he's the candidate of pissed off, anti-immigration neocons. i think many of our politicians suck, and that idiot is definitely not my candidate. ****, he can't even get simple punctuation right in a tweet, and i'm supposed to entrust him with the nuclear button? right.

Neoconservatives [Charles Kraughthammer, William Kristol types] tend more to the Reformicon Ryan/Rubio side of the party.

Broadly, if you are ideologically oriented (in either direction), you aren't a Trump fan. If you think them snobs up in Washington are all idiot losers who look down on you while they're screwing you and the answer is a Strongman who can Get **** Done, then you are.

i'll agree that he's no establishment candidate. at least not until he starts looking inevitable.

I don't think a majority would vote for Trump. But I have a somewhat jaundiced regard for the American electorate.

that one's a little more complex. i'm mostly jaded by the fact that it's pretty much either Republican or Democrat every time in every election. i don't see a way that this dynamic can produce anything close to a good choice. but yeah, yeah. i look at who people support and think "what the ****?" sometimes. i still believe that democracy is the best system, but i hate that our version of it has been so gerrymandered and manipulated. i'm also annoyed that people tend to vote for a team rather than for a candidate.

Well we'll see. :)

indeed we will. and **** me, but i'm going to watch the whole thing again this time. eventually, maybe i'll manage to give sweet ****all about it and devote my time to something else.
 
any union member who thinks that he's going to do anything good for union labor or labor rights in general is a bloody fool.

:shrug: from what they know of him, Trump is anti-trade and anti-mass/illegal immigration, both of which are policies that they support as being a means of protecting their income/status.

Unions Lean Democratic, but Donald Trump Gets Members’ Attention


he's the candidate of pissed off, anti-immigration neocons.

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i think many of our politicians suck, and that idiot is definitely not my candidate.

:shrug: you are more educated and ideologically oriented. You read.

****, he can't even get simple punctuation right in a tweet, and i'm supposed to entrust him with the nuclear button? right.

The guy doesn't even know what the nuclear triad is, much less how to employ it.

However, if you point that out to his fans, they reply that he will have people for that, and that those of us who think that is important aren't "real America", but rather a buncha eggheads.

i'll agree that he's no establishment candidate. at least not until he starts looking inevitable.

Rich Lowry put it well:

...There is much argument about what really constitutes the establishment. The past few weeks suggest a simple acid test: If you look at Donald Trump and think, “There’s a man I can deal with.” If you tell yourself, “He’s utterly without principle and therefore encouragingly malleable.” If you wonder, “How can I keep my head down, and maybe come out OK during a Trump campaign or even a Trump administration?” Well then, you are a member of the establishment in good standing, and you’ve got a problem...

that one's a little more complex. i'm mostly jaded by the fact that it's pretty much either Republican or Democrat every time in every election. i don't see a way that this dynamic can produce anything close to a good choice.

The parties typically do a pretty good job of capturing the majority of the country and both shaping and following it.

The problem is that our country is controlled by idiots. I don't mean the politicians. I mean the hordes of people who vote based on bumper stickers, slogans, general feelings, and who their parents vote for.

That's why I called Marco Rubio as a plausible President back in 2011. Not because he was more intelligent, or more competent, or the best situated to the task of governing. Nope. Rubio's strength is that he talks pretty. The American people want someone to make them feel good about themselves and punish the people they don't like, so that they can be comforted and go back to watching reality TV. We don't want to get involved in a policy debate, we want someone to tell us about the rabbits.

but yeah, yeah. i look at who people support and think "what the ****?" sometimes. i still believe that democracy is the best system, but i hate that our version of it has been so gerrymandered and manipulated. i'm also annoyed that people tend to vote for a team rather than for a candidate.

more and more, I find political tribalism distasteful if not infuriating.

indeed we will. and **** me, but i'm going to watch the whole thing again this time. eventually, maybe i'll manage to give sweet ****all about it and devote my time to something else.

:D oh well. It's not like it's for the position of the most powerful person in the world, with immense influence via the deadliest military and the biggest economy in the history of mankind, or anything. :D
 
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The polls say no. My own judgement says no. But lately that judgement has started to waiver.

Regardless of how much I dislike Trump and what few policies he has put forth, he has proven himself a freaking savant when it comes to manipulating the media and the masses. Using methods that defy common sense and conventional thinking, he has won over the Republican base despite espousing policies that are demonstrably non-conservative.

People aren't inspired by Trump's policies. They are inspired by Trump.

If all of this has been part of his plan, and not some fluke, then one would assume if he wins the primaries he will switch gears and will tailor his rhetoric to a larger audience. Don't get me wrong, the rhetoric will still be outlandish and devoid of much substance, but it will be sure to inspire.

We at DP aren't the typical voters. We take an active interest in politics and policies and gain pleasure from debating their merits and shortcomings. The typical voter tends to be more "low information". Such voters, be they Republican, Democrat, or Independent, will be much more susceptible to being swept up in Trump's cult of personality. He comes across to such people as strong, and anti-establishment. He sure as hell doesn't toe the party line. He is in reality what McCain pretended to be. A maverick. For people who want "change" there is little doubt that Trump would bring that.

Don't get me wrong. I hate Trump. I think he would be a horrible President. But as I said, I think he is a master at manipulating the media and the public. And when it comes time to appeal to a larger base, he will know how to adjust course, even if the way he does it seems on the surface self destructive to many of us.

I hope I am wrong.

Don't worry, you are wrong. EVERY poll shows him losing to both Clinton and Sanders. Unless the DNC candidates are revealed to be eating puppies in their spare him together, there is now way he'd win in the general
 
Absolutely.

Americans are ready for something new.

The old crap no longer works.


The newish crap is what doesn't work. Dysfunctional federal government is a product of the Tea Party/Obama age when the search for common ground disappeared, and deadlock won the day, every day. Hence the attraction to an oafish tyrant like Trump.
 
:shrug: from what they know of him, Trump is anti-trade and anti-mass/illegal immigration, both of which are policies that they support as being a means of protecting their income/status.

Unions Lean Democratic, but Donald Trump Gets Members’ Attention

like i said, they are idiots if they think that he is their candidate.


:shrug: you are more educated and ideologically oriented. You read.

i do.

The guy doesn't even know what the nuclear triad is, much less how to employ it.

However, if you point that out to his fans, they reply that he will have people for that, and that those of us who think that is important aren't "real America", but rather a buncha eggheads.

i remember believing that this strategy would work for Bush when i voted for him in 2000. that didn't work out so well on some issues.

Rich Lowry put it well:

...There is much argument about what really constitutes the establishment. The past few weeks suggest a simple acid test: If you look at Donald Trump and think, “There’s a man I can deal with.” If you tell yourself, “He’s utterly without principle and therefore encouragingly malleable.” If you wonder, “How can I keep my head down, and maybe come out OK during a Trump campaign or even a Trump administration?” Well then, you are a member of the establishment in good standing, and you’ve got a problem...



The parties typically do a pretty good job of capturing the majority of the country and both shaping and following it.

the two parties are basically ****. in a referendum, i'd vote to ban them outright. run on your own ideas, not on your team.

The problem is that our country is controlled by idiots. I don't mean the politicians. I mean the hordes of people who vote based on bumper stickers, slogans, general feelings, and who their parents vote for.

no argument there.

That's why I called Marco Rubio as a plausible President back in 2011. Not because he was more intelligent, or more competent, or the best situated to the task of governing. Nope. Rubio's strength is that he talks pretty. The American people want someone to make them feel good about themselves and punish the people they don't like, so that they can be comforted and go back to watching reality TV. We don't want to get involved in a policy debate, we want someone to tell us about the rabbits.

bread and circuses are a helluva drug.

more and more, I find political tribalism distasteful if not infuriating.

we definitely agree about that.

:D oh well. It's not like it's for the position of the most powerful person in the world, with immense influence via the deadliest military and the biggest economy in the history of mankind, or anything. :D

i've considered what our society would look like with that office taken off the table. eventually, our society will evolve past needing kings, though not in our lifetimes, certainly.
 
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