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Hillary makes up gun death count...

So Hillary's statement that "3000 people have been killed bu guns since the last debate" quite accurate. Thanks for the stats.

Ahh, the joys of fact checking.
In 2012, PolitiFacts called Romney assertion "that Jeep was moving its U.S. production to China", as the Lie of the Year despite the fact that, yes, Jeep production was moved to China. They claimed that it was a lie because Jeep denied the plans, and, later when Jeep actually announced that they, in fact, were moving Jeep production to China on the grounds that all Jeep production was not being moved. (Something Romney never said or implied.) Jeeps are being produced in China.

So, with that in mind, let's review. The Clinton campaign claimed that she was using the 2013 CDC stats, as I showed. So, 11,203 firearm homicides and 21,175 firearm suicides in 2013, according to the CDC. So, 32,378 firearm deaths in a year, or 88.7 a day or 2,839 in the 32 days between LV debate on Oct 13th and the Nov 14th debate.

So, Lie #1-Not 3,000, 2,839.
Lie #2-2013 stats have nothing to do with 10/13/15 to 11/14/15 stats. (But, yeah, maybe she is right when we get those figures compiled.)
Misleading Statement/Lie #3-Suicides normally would not be included with homicides. Seems like a scare tactic to include them.
Lie #4-"gun" is a subset of firearm. Many firearms have rifling and therefore are not "guns" as any Basic Training soldier learns rather early in training.
 
No respect for anyone who includes suicides in their stats for gun deaths when prattling on about mass shootings.

If the vast majority of the wounds are self-inflicted and I'm not suicidal, then your #'s don't scare me, they're just misleading.

The fact remains that if you're not suicidal or a gang banging dealer, you're very likely never to die by a handgun... unless you encounter the police. You're far more likely to die in your car, your pool or because of your food choices in America.
 
CLINTON: "Since we last debated in Las Vegas, nearly 3,000 people have been killed by guns. Two hundred children have been killed. This is an emergency." She said that in the same period there have been 21 mass shootings, "including one last weekend in Des Moines where three were murdered."

THE FACTS: The claim appears to be unsupported on all counts.


The Gun Violence Archive has recorded 11,485 gun deaths in the U.S. so far this year, an average of just under 1,000 per month, making Clinton's figure appear to be highly exaggerated. The archive had more detailed data for children and teenagers, showing 70 from those age groups killed by firearms since the Democratic candidates debated Oct. 13 - not 200 as she claimed.

News from The Associated Press
It's a pretty screwed-up situation though, when 1K shooting deaths per month, 70 of which are kids, is considered a good thing - or at the least, the 'better' thing.

Not the subject of the article, but still nothing to celebrate.
 
And the majority of them are suicides. You going to make suicide illegal? :lamo

Surely someone so presumptuous as to call themselves Hari Seldon wouldn't support that, the government use of force, because:

Hari Seldon said:
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent
 
Ahh, the joys of fact checking.
In 2012, PolitiFacts called Romney assertion "that Jeep was moving its U.S. production to China", as the Lie of the Year despite the fact that, yes, Jeep production was moved to China. They claimed that it was a lie because Jeep denied the plans, and, later when Jeep actually announced that they, in fact, were moving Jeep production to China on the grounds that all Jeep production was not being moved. (Something Romney never said or implied.) Jeeps are being produced in China.

So, with that in mind, let's review. The Clinton campaign claimed that she was using the 2013 CDC stats, as I showed. So, 11,203 firearm homicides and 21,175 firearm suicides in 2013, according to the CDC. So, 32,378 firearm deaths in a year, or 88.7 a day or 2,839 in the 32 days between LV debate on Oct 13th and the Nov 14th debate.

So, Lie #1-Not 3,000, 2,839.
Lie #2-2013 stats have nothing to do with 10/13/15 to 11/14/15 stats. (But, yeah, maybe she is right when we get those figures compiled.)
Misleading Statement/Lie #3-Suicides normally would not be included with homicides. Seems like a scare tactic to include them.
Lie #4-"gun" is a subset of firearm. Many firearms have rifling and therefore are not "guns" as any Basic Training soldier learns rather early in training.
Yowsa!

I can see legit concerns with 'lie' #3 dealing with classifying suicides as 'homicides', even though I believe it's fair to label all of them as 'gun deaths'. Classifying suicides as homicides would seem to be misleading IMO, but perhaps a grey area argument could be made - no idea how successfuly.

But your other 3 'lies' are reaches, at best.

1, 2, & 4 are perfectly fine in terms of general public consumption, IMO.
 
And the majority of them are suicides. You going to make suicide illegal? :lamo

I was just trying to verify the accuracy of the statement. I belie suicide is already illegal.
 
It's a pretty screwed-up situation though, when 1K shooting deaths per month, 70 of which are kids, is considered a good thing - or at the least, the 'better' thing.

Not the subject of the article, but still nothing to celebrate.

No one is celebrating the death of any kids. Where is that coming from?
Many kids killed in America are by their own peers in the "the hood." A criminal act...by criminals.

Stick to the thread...it's about the lying, bitch Hillary.
 
Ahh, the joys of fact checking.
In 2012, PolitiFacts called Romney assertion "that Jeep was moving its U.S. production to China", as the Lie of the Year despite the fact that, yes, Jeep production was moved to China. They claimed that it was a lie because Jeep denied the plans, and, later when Jeep actually announced that they, in fact, were moving Jeep production to China on the grounds that all Jeep production was not being moved. (Something Romney never said or implied.) Jeeps are being produced in China.

So, with that in mind, let's review. The Clinton campaign claimed that she was using the 2013 CDC stats, as I showed. So, 11,203 firearm homicides and 21,175 firearm suicides in 2013, according to the CDC. So, 32,378 firearm deaths in a year, or 88.7 a day or 2,839 in the 32 days between LV debate on Oct 13th and the Nov 14th debate.

So, Lie #1-Not 3,000, 2,839.
Lie #2-2013 stats have nothing to do with 10/13/15 to 11/14/15 stats. (But, yeah, maybe she is right when we get those figures compiled.)
Misleading Statement/Lie #3-Suicides normally would not be included with homicides. Seems like a scare tactic to include them.
Lie #4-"gun" is a subset of firearm. Many firearms have rifling and therefore are not "guns" as any Basic Training soldier learns rather early in training.

Are you kidding with the word "lie"? Maybe a bit misleading if one isn't considering suicides. The rifling comment is a complete joke. Certainly up to the standards set by the 3000 Republican candidates.
 
Yowsa!

I can see legit concerns with 'lie' #3 dealing with classifying suicides as 'homicides', even though I believe it's fair to label all of them as 'gun deaths'. Classifying suicides as homicides would seem to be misleading IMO, but perhaps a grey area argument could be made - no idea how successfuly.

But your other 3 'lies' are reaches, at best.

1, 2, & 4 are perfectly fine in terms of general public consumption, IMO.
The irony is that I agree with you. But I have read too many PolitiFacts analysis that would have called such a statement a "Pants on Fire" lie for such "errors", if made by a Republican.
 
Are you kidding with the word "lie"? Maybe a bit misleading if one isn't considering suicides. The rifling comment is a complete joke. Certainly up to the standards set by the 3000 Republican candidates.

1.A gun is a firearm or weapon that has a metal tube where bullets are fired at a high velocity into a flat ballistic arc while a rifle is a weapon or firearm that has a long barrel that is rifled or grooved giving bullets spinning motion for greater accuracy at a long range.

Read more: Difference Between Gun and Rifle | Difference Between | Gun vs Rifle Difference Between Gun and Rifle | Difference Between | Gun vs Rifle
Just trying to make a point about the periodic hypocrisy among fact-checkers. Almost any statement can be made into a lie if one has a bias and wants to be hyper critical.
 
The irony is that I agree with you. But I have read too many PolitiFacts analysis that would have called such a statement a "Pants on Fire" lie for such "errors", if made by a Republican.
Thanks for the response.

I can understand.

There's political machines & other political entities cranking their PR at us constantly.

And it's because of this state of affairs, that our citizenry often-enough votes some pretty poor politicians into office. [I've got to use the term 'politicians' here, because to call some of these guys 'leaders' is a reach too far!]
 
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