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"If you give up your liberty for your safety, you will end up with neither" -Franklin

Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

Helvidius said:
I suspect the next form of "security" will come in the shape of a government monitored internet to protect we the people from whomever they define as a terrorist.
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Yep, they have that in China... no real terrorist problems there. Cuba as well.
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

Crunch said:
Which this administration embraces and continues to uphold…. Take it up with Dear Leader, he’s your boy.
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IAMAMAN.jpg


No, he's your boy.
 
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Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

Wow - protests were so civil back then. They're all well dressed and getting along.

Don't see that these days - protests, now, are a reason for many to just let loose their frustrations with the world.
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

Aunt Spiker said:
Wow - protests were so civil back then. They're all well dressed and getting along.

Don't see that these days - protests, now, are a reason for many to just let loose their frustrations with the world.
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I don't know about that..... I've been to two Tea Parties and the only violence I saw was a guy that tried to run over 1/2 a dozen protesters with his van, then went up to the speaker and took the microphone out of his hand. The cops came and led him away... and I'll bet big bucks he wasn't a Tea Partier.

Also take a look at that Tea Party in DC. Did it look like what you get when the Libs demonstrate?
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

Of course if that's what it takes, anything and everything to keep the country safe.

Bring our soldiers back so they can patrol the streets, declare martial law. We need total security, not not just token security.

ricksfolly..

Are you high?

It's no game. People are at risk. You either take national security serious, or you don't...

ricksfolly
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

ricksfolly said:
Of course if that's what it takes, anything and everything to keep the country safe.

Bring our soldiers back so they can patrol the streets, declare martial law. We need total security, not not just token security.

ricksfolly..

Are you high?

It's no game. People are at risk. You either take national security serious, or you don't...

ricksfolly
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No, thats a prison state. I would leave here, you have to make this country safe, while keeping it a good place to live.
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

mikhail said:
Not really an issue im in favour of naked walkthroughs at the airport.Then the only thing needing to be scanned is internal.
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Oh Dear God, no!

I know most people don't want to see me naked. The feeling is reciprocal. The ones I do want to see naked aren't going through airport security to get to their private jet anyway. Considering that more Americans resemble Rosie O'Donnel and Rush Limbaugh than resemble Catherine Zeta-Jones or Brad Pitt, I don't think I'm off the reservation here...think Wal-Mart.
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Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

Well I'm sure glad my safty isn't in jeopardy.
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

ricksfolly said:
It's no game. People are at risk. You either take national security serious, or you don't...
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So that's why you force people through scanners that don't work and expose you to unknown levels of radiation unprotected, sure /s. Don't need to worry about people if they are already dead from radiation exposure I guess. ~_~
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

Travelsonic said:
So that's why you force people through scanners that don't work and expose you to unknown levels of radiation unprotected, sure /s. Don't need to worry about people if they are already dead from radiation exposure I guess. ~_~
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The most "radioactive" scanner produces the equivalent of the radiation exposure from two minutes flying at 30,000 feet. A millimetre wave scanner radiates less than a mobile phone.
If the perceived threat from that is too much for you, then you may choose to be patted down instead. Or not fly.
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

Manc Skipper said:
The most "radioactive" scanner produces the equivalent of the radiation exposure from two minutes flying at 30,000 feet. A millimetre wave scanner radiates less than a mobile phone.
If the perceived threat from that is too much for you, then you may choose to be patted down instead. Or not fly.
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- There was a study that came out stating that the level of radiation exposure wa many many times greater than what the traveling public was being told.

- Damn right I'll take the patdown over WBI every time [until these things are replaced with something more lgoical, less intrusive to boot]
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

Travelsonic said:
Lets see, people forcing you to be exposed to untold amounts of radiation, and essentially seen naked - people who are not LEOs [working for the federal government too] being given authority LEOs aren't even allowed to do. That doesn't seem like a loss of rights, let alone a scary thought?
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If you are really concerned about the radiation, don't take the flight. You are exposed to much more radiation in flight than you will get from the machines used for body scans.

I'm not sure that I see the loss of rights. A movie theather doesn't let you bring in outside food or drink. The only difference with the airlines is that they are serious about it (well, at least they pretend that the are serious).
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

That's probably the silliest quote I've heard, considering that government is sacrificing liberty for security by definition.
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

Patria Antiqua said:
That's probably the silliest quote I've heard, considering that government is sacrificing liberty for security by definition.
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It was Franklin who wrote "They who can give up essential liberty to (obtain / purchase) a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." I don't believe that it was silly at the time he wrote it.
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

zip98053 said:
It was Franklin who wrote "They who can give up essential liberty to (obtain / purchase) a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." I don't believe that it was silly at the time he wrote it.
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However, there's a big difference between 'essential liberty for a little temporary safety' and 'any liberty for any safety', which is the far end of how the quote ends up being used.
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

iangb said:
However, there's a big difference between 'essential liberty for a little temporary safety' and 'any liberty for any safety', which is the far end of how the quote ends up being used.
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Do you mean "how the quote ends up being (mis)used"?
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

Aunt Spiker said:
Wow - protests were so civil back then. They're all well dressed and getting along.

Don't see that these days - protests, now, are a reason for many to just let loose their frustrations with the world.
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You might be right if you take Tea Party Rallies out of the equation. They have all been civil with everyone getting along.( minus a few cases of liberals acting like idiots) No vandalism, no fights, not even trash left behind.
Sounds pretty darn civil to me.
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

zip98053 said:
Do you mean "how the quote ends up being (mis)used"?
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Yup. Good addition.

I wrote a long post on a different forum about where to draw the line between freedom and security, which I'll turn into a blog post one of these days. Long story short, though: total freedom would suck almost as much as total security. If you treat it as a perfect dichotomy, you end up with a choice between padded cells for everyone, and no keys (total security) vs complete anarchy; and not the political sort (total freedom). Neither of those options is very attractive.
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

Aunt Spiker said:
Wow - protests were so civil back then. They're all well dressed and getting along.

Don't see that these days - protests, now, are a reason for many to just let loose their frustrations with the world.
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Must be because we don't see any white liberals.
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

digsbe said:
How does being scanned at an airport a sacrifice of your liberty? Is your liberty compromised when a doctor preforms a physical? No one is forcing you to board a plane, you chose to purchase the ticket. Part of that service means that you must undergo security checks for valid reasons. I think many media outlets are spinning this into some "big brother government" conspiracy.
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"Conservatives" of today.....love big brother and big government....as long as it gives them a sense of security (they don't care if its a false one...as long as they feel that they are being protected).
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

doramider7 said:
"Conservatives" of today.....love big brother and big government....as long as it gives them a sense of security (they don't care if its a false one...as long as they feel that they are being protected).
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You don't know what the hell you're talking about.
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

What Franklin said was "They who can give up essesntial liberty for extra security deserve neither security nor liberty"
 
Re: IF YOU GIVE UP YOUR LIBERTY FOR YOUR SAFTY YOU WILL END UP WITH NITHER " Benjamin

Franklin wasn't talking about actual safety. He was talking about giving up fundamental liberites for temporary, perceived safety. If there is a serious safety concern, and it's not fleeting, that's different.
 
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