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Thread: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    There is no freedom of religion or freedom from religion in the Bill of Rights. Both are positive rights and the rights in the Bill of Rights are negative rights.

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    1.Because there is not a "one at a time" clause in the first amendment.Meaning they can preach about Jesus, run a newspaper, talk about politics, petition for a redress of grievances to the government, protest peacefully, and or talk about politics all at the same time.

    2.Its the duty of any good religious leader to inform his or her congregation/members what moral choices their members should be making including picking politicians who are moral. I know leftist and die hard atheists believe that when you go vote that you are supposed to tell what ever god you believe in to go **** him or herself that you are going to vote however you want regardless if the candidate contradicts those religious beliefs.
    Arguably they can't.

    The IRS continues to make it clear that political campaign intervention by 501(c)(3) organizations including churches is absolutely prohibited.

    Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes

    From Forbes.

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Arguably they can't.

    The IRS continues to make it clear that political campaign intervention by 501(c)(3) organizations including churches is absolutely prohibited.

    Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes

    From Forbes.
    Revoking a church's 501, if they have one, does not affect their tax exempt status. They are two different things and a church does not need a 501 to be tax exempt.

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    A church could lose it's tax exempt status for preaching politics and/or interfering in an election...

    "...The Pew Research Center developed an extensive guide to answer questions about churches, politics, and tax laws. Itís called, ďPreaching Politics From The Pulpit.Ē If caught breaking federal laws, religious organizations may have their tax exemption status revoked. This can lead to a loss of substantial cash back tax benefits equaling large amounts of money.

    According to Pew, to qualify for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status under the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must meet the following requirements:

    "...The organization must be organized and operated exclusively for religious, educational, scientific or other charitable purposes;

    Net earnings may not inure to the benefit of any private individual or shareholder;

    No substantial part of the organizationís activities may involve attempts to influence legislation;

    The organization may not intervene in political campaigns;

    The organizationís purposes or activities may not be illegal or violate fundamental public policy.

    Preaching Politics From the Pulpit | Pew Research Center
    I agree, but it's seldom enforced. This "ground game" turned the election. While Democrats were watching the polls, Republicans were busy preaching from the pulpit, putting flyers on cars, playing Ben Carson on big-screen TVs, etc.. The Fear-of-God vote payed off, throughout the US, and made the polls look silly. The same thing happened in 2000, when Gore led in most polls. In 2000, a week before voting, an Arch-Bishop in Ohio stated that it was "A sin to vote for Al Gore". Duhbya won Ohio by a narrow margin.

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    A church could lose it's tax exempt status for preaching politics and/or interfering in an election...

    "...The Pew Research Center developed an extensive guide to answer questions about churches, politics, and tax laws. Itís called, ďPreaching Politics From The Pulpit.Ē If caught breaking federal laws, religious organizations may have their tax exemption status revoked. This can lead to a loss of substantial cash back tax benefits equaling large amounts of money.

    According to Pew, to qualify for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status under the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must meet the following requirements:

    "...The organization must be organized and operated exclusively for religious, educational, scientific or other charitable purposes;

    Net earnings may not inure to the benefit of any private individual or shareholder;

    No substantial part of the organizationís activities may involve attempts to influence legislation;

    The organization may not intervene in political campaigns;

    The organizationís purposes or activities may not be illegal or violate fundamental public policy.

    Preaching Politics From the Pulpit | Pew Research Center
    Still does not change what I said.Church's have the constitutional right to say what ever they want and any good preacher,minister, Rabi or what ever religious leader has the duty to inform their congregation/members the moral choices they should be making including which voting for which politicians whose morals closely match theirs.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennyson View Post
    There is no freedom of religion or freedom from religion in the Bill of Rights. Both are positive rights and the rights in the Bill of Rights are negative rights.
    What on earth is a negative right?

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau72 View Post
    What on earth is a negative right?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negati...ositive_rights
    "The Republican Party geared its appeal and program to racism, reaction, and extremism.
    All people of goodwill viewed with alarm and concern the frenzied wedding at the Cow Palace of the KKK with the radical right." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Still does not change what I said.Church's have the constitutional right to say what ever they want and any good preacher,minister, Rabi or what ever religious leader has the duty to inform their congregation/members the moral choices they should be making including which voting for which politicians whose morals closely match theirs.
    As long as they are willing to forego their tax-exempt status. And then they might as well go on the air, and call themselves FOX News.

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennyson View Post
    Revoking a church's 501, if they have one, does not affect their tax exempt status. They are two different things and a church does not need a 501 to be tax exempt.
    Yes it does. Churches don't have the same application and filing requirements as other 501(c)(3) organizations, but that is still the source of their exemption from Federal income tax.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The 1st amendment is pretty "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". that means government can not prohibit any religion and has to take a neutral stance on religion.IE freedom of religion. Freedom of conscience is a by-product of that due to the fact that is part of exercising your religion.Much the same way the right to privacy is a by-product of the 4th amendment due to law enforcement needing warrants based on probable cause to search people and their belongings and to seize persons and property(people deliberately try to claim the 4th amendment is about privacy in order to say well since you are outside then you have no expectation of privacy in order to get around the 4th amendment ).
    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau72 View Post
    Key statement being "neutral stance". Yes, the First Amendment requires the government be neutral on all matters religious. Some people have a hard time understanding that simple requirement.
    That's not at all what the First Amendment says. It simply prohibits the establishment of a state religion. It says this clearly, and unambiguously using that actual wording. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ". It goes on to say the free exercise of religion cannot be prohibited. it mentions nothing about schools, or government property. Period, end of story.
    EVERY LIFE MATTERS

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