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Thread: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But it is indeed a burden imposed on others. For me to exercise my civil right to service in a pubic accommodation, that indeed places a burden on someone else to do something regardless if they want to do it happily or not.
    No it does not, because you are compensated, and are no worse off than you were before. If your cost is $100 and you receive $100 then no burden has been imposed upon you because you are just as well off as you were before. If you receive $100.01 then you are better off than you were before and therefore no burden.

    And it is that simple reality that proves WRONG the statement from another poster that a right imposes no cost or burden on others.

    here was the original statement
    there is no right to material goods and services, because they would lay and cost or burden on another person.
    If I have a right to material goods and services, then that means that I have a right, without having to give compensation to those goods and/or services. Someone else would have to provide them to me, at their own cost, without compensation.
    The right to be treated the same as anyone else is not a burden on others.

    In some cases, especially with the ADA, a burden IS imposed on providers of goods and services, in that they must accommodate people with disabilities as long as that burden is not unreasonable. In some cases things like requiring the merchant to widen his doors or build a wheelchair ramp would be unreasonable as the cost would be way out of proportion to the benefits to those in wheelchairs.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  2. #232
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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    If serving people isn't a burden on you, why did you charge the business to do it?
    Because without compensation, it would be a burden on me. I received more than I valued my labor, so I was better off by working.

    Did you not have other things you would rather have done in that time you spent serving people?
    Of course. But the pay I received was worth more to me than doing any of those other things.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  3. #233
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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    The business owner and the consumer are not equally protected under the law. A consumer can refuse to do business with a place because it is run by gays. No problem. A business can't refuse service to a person based on the same premise. Aren't rights equal among everyone? Read the civil rights act. In the part about businesses, it doesn't even call them rights. And the majority of the civil rights act is based on the interstate commerce clause even though lots of the businesses don't operate across state lines.
    I stand by what I said.

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    Not helpful at all. I spent a couple of semesters at Cambridge and even though it was quite some time ago I still recall some things. Indeed they have no piece of parchment or a set of rules that was adopted at one time by some legislative body, yet what they do have is very well defined and documented to not use the term written. It is not just pulled from thin air at the whim of the people or courts.

    It is no different from case law here or SCOTUS decisions which have the power of law as in Roe for example.

    Still to imply that rights come from nature or are undocumented is naive at best.
    you were making the point if its not written its not law, you have been proven incorrect on that.

    natural rights derive with the natural ability of the body, which is why they are called natural rights

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Because without compensation, it would be a burden on me. I received more than I valued my labor, so I was better off by working.

    Of course. But the pay I received was worth more to me than doing any of those other things.
    Exactly. They pay you to bear the burden of laboring for them.
    From the ashes.

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    No it doesn't. The law can be named anything Read the civil rights act of 1964. When it addresses businesses, it doesn't use the term right.
    So the things contained in the Civil RIGHTS Law are not rights? That is a bit bizarre?

    Civil Rights Act of 1964: Public Accommodation




    TITLE II--INJUNCTIVE RELIEF AGAINST DISCRIMINATION IN PLACES OF PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION

    OOOSEC. 201. (a) All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, and privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.
    OOO(b) Each of the following establishments which serves the public is a place of public accommodation within the meaning of this title if its operations affect commerce, or if discrimination or segregation by it is supported by State action:
    OOO)(1) any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to transient guests, other than an establishment located within a building which contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and which is actually occupied by the proprietor of such establishment as his residence;
    OOO)(2) any restaurant, cafeteria, lunchroom, lunch counter, soda fountain, or other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises, including, but not limited to, any such facility located on the premises of any retail establishment; or any gasoline station;
    OO)O(3) any motion picture house, theater, concert hall, sports arena, stadium or other place of exhibition or entertainment; and
    OOO)(4) any establishment (A)(i) which is physically located within the premises of any establishment otherwise covered by this subsection, or (ii) within the premises of which is physically located any such covered establishment, and (B) which holds itself out as serving patrons of such covered establishment.
    OOO(c) The operations of an establishment affect commerce within the meaning of this title if (1) it is one of the establishments described in paragraph (1) of subsection (b); (2) in the case of an establishment described in paragraph (2) of subsection (b), it serves or offers to serve interstate travelers or a substantial portion of the food which it serves, or gasoline or other products which it sells, has moved in commerce; (3) in the case of an establishment described in paragraph (3) of subsection (b), it customarily presents films, performances, athletic teams, exhibitions, or other sources of entertainment which move in commerce; and (4) in the case of an establishment described in paragraph (4) of subsection (b), it is physically located within the premises of, or there is physically located within its premises, an establishment the operations of which affect commerce within the meaning of this subsection. For purposes of this section, "commerce" means travel, trade, traffic, commerce, transportation, or communication among the several States, or between the District of Columbia and any State, or between any foreign country or any territory or possession and any State or the District of Columbia, or between points in the same State but through any other State or the District of Columbia or a foreign country.
    OOO(d) Discrimination or segregation by an establishment is supported by State action within the meaning of this title if such discrimination or segregation (1) is carried on under color of any law, statute, ordinance, or regulation; or (2) is carried on under color of any custom or usage required or enforced by officials of the State or political subdivision thereof; or (3) is required by action of the State or political subdivision thereof.
    OOO(e) The provisions of this title shall not apply to a private club or other establishment not in fact open to the public, except to the extent that the facilities of such establishment are made available to the customers or patrons of an establishment within the scope of subsection (b).
    So what is this list of things if not rights contained in the Civil RIGHTS Law?
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    No it does not, because you are compensated, and are no worse off than you were before. If your cost is $100 and you receive $100 then no burden has been imposed upon you because you are just as well off as you were before. If you receive $100.01 then you are better off than you were before and therefore no burden.



    If I have a right to material goods and services, then that means that I have a right, without having to give compensation to those goods and/or services. Someone else would have to provide them to me, at their own cost, without compensation.
    The right to be treated the same as anyone else is not a burden on others.

    In some cases, especially with the ADA, a burden IS imposed on providers of goods and services, in that they must accommodate people with disabilities as long as that burden is not unreasonable. In some cases things like requiring the merchant to widen his doors or build a wheelchair ramp would be unreasonable as the cost would be way out of proportion to the benefits to those in wheelchairs.
    So a right can have a burden attached and you agree it is a burden. We simply disagree on if a burden is attached to service and accommodation.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master PO View Post
    you were making the point if its not written its not law, you have been proven incorrect on that.

    natural rights derive with the natural ability of the body, which is why they are called natural rights
    A legal right and an ability of the body are two different things.

    I can poop because it is a natural ability of my body. There is no right to poop.
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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    A legal right and an ability of the body are two different things.

    a legal right is written law, natural rights are unwritten law.

    I can poop because it is a natural ability of my body. There is no right to poop.
    yes their is a right to poop just like their is a right to speak, eat, drink,

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    Re: Does the Constitution Really Say Freedom of Religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master PO View Post
    yes their is a right to poop just like their is a right to speak, eat, drink,
    That is simply a physical ability.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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