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Feds: It's legal to demand fingerprints to unlock phones of everyone in a building

Re: Feds: It's legal to demand fingerprints to unlock phones of everyone in a buildin

Unless you're at a border or a Port-of-Entry. :)

there are exceptions, but for the most part they need a warrant.
I have never been searched coming through customs though.
 
Re: Feds: It's legal to demand fingerprints to unlock phones of everyone in a buildin

there are exceptions, but for the most part they need a warrant.
I have never been searched coming through customs though.

I've been through customs a lot, and it's usually just random. I get stopped coming from S. America because surely if you're a single male flying in from South America, you must be a drug mule.

And there's no 4th Amendment protection against searches at the border. They can search or take what they want. There are a few limits regarding body cavity searches and such, but the rest is free game.
 
Re: Feds: It's legal to demand fingerprints to unlock phones of everyone in a buildin

I've been through customs a lot, and it's usually just random. I get stopped coming from S. America because surely if you're a single male flying in from South America, you must be a drug mule.

And there's no 4th Amendment protection against searches at the border. They can search or take what they want. There are a few limits regarding body cavity searches and such, but the rest is free game.

I have my global entry card. it is the best thing I have ever had.
 
Re: Feds: It's legal to demand fingerprints to unlock phones of everyone in a buildin

Because. I am a constitutionalist and the government needs a warrant to conduct a search that includes a
Phone.

You are an extremely naïve constitutionalist. :peace
 
Re: Feds: It's legal to demand fingerprints to unlock phones of everyone in a buildin

You are an extremely naïve constitutionalist. :peace

Yes you are.
 
Re: Feds: It's legal to demand fingerprints to unlock phones of everyone in a buildin


What seems to be the pattern is that initially when the Gov't (or its various heavy hands - Police, FBI, NSA and so on) comes into conflict with rights/freedoms/liberty "we the people will often come out ok".

Over time however, the powers at be will figure out away around SCOTUS, or go through SCOTUS. At the end of the day the constitution and the principles on which this nation was founded ends up getting trashed.

We have fallen so far down the slippery slope we can no longer see the top of the mountain.

The founders set up a system in which limiting Gov't power was a primary goal. For 200 years the Gov't has been trying to get that power back .. and they have succeeded.
 
Re: Feds: It's legal to demand fingerprints to unlock phones of everyone in a buildin

I wonder what would happen if I told the feds to pound sand, I wont open or unlock my device(s).

Most everything I have that has information of a sensitive nature on it, is hard and soft encrypted and does not touch the internet, nor does it use biometrics in the conventional fashion. If I don't cooperate they will have an exceptionally difficult time pulling viable data off the device. I don't understand why anyone would cooperate at all if the feds don't have a warrant.

Because the Feds have power to make your life very difficult and a history of doing so with those who do not cooperate.
 
Re: Feds: It's legal to demand fingerprints to unlock phones of everyone in a buildin

Why does the government need a warrant for anything? This is the age of the Unitary Executive, thanks to the Neocons and Barack Obama.

The Fourth Amendment is superfluous and void in pursuit of the Global War On Terror.

You make a good point.

The use of fear to take away liberty is one of the oldest tricks in the book. When the Gov't starts doing this "Red Lights" should be going off. Unfortunately we do not , through 12 years of school, manage to teach basic lessens of history or the basic principles on which this nation was founded.

The historical tendency of Gov'ts (and people in general) to abuse power is well established. Power corrupts and more power corrupts more. This is why the founders tried to set up a society where Gov't power was limited.

The founders knew the trick of using fear to take away liberty. "those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary security deserve neither" B. Franklin.

Stalin wrote a chapter in the textbook using fear of a foreign threat as justification to trade liberty for security "Security for the Motherland"
Hitler did the same "Fatherland Security."
Bush - "Homeland Security"

Bush in fact made it our patriotic duty to trade liberty for more security. Patriot Act.

Obama (Mr. Hope and Change Constitutional Lawyer and civil rights advocate) came along and said:

"If we want increases security we have to give a little" ... (give a little liberty = give a whole lot of liberty). He said this in relation to the NSA illegal spying. The head of the NSA lies to congress (perjury much ?) in relation to illegal activities against all US citizens.

Not only does this criminal not get punished - he keeps his Job. It is those who shed light on illegal activities of Gov't that get punished. ( If this is not a canary in the coal mine .. then there is no canary)

Obama then changes the name of the act which makes it our patriotic duty to give up our freedoms and trade liberty for security to the equally Orwellian doublespeak "Freedom Act".

Now comes the my argument:

Giving up our liberties and increasing police-Gov't powers is a far bigger threat to the security of "we the people" than the threat to security of terrorism.

The risk of harm to a US citizen from terrorism is 400 times less than the risk of harm from walking. If one drive a car to work the risk of harm is many thousands of times higher than the risk of harm from terrorism.

So this risk to security is actually quite low. It is not like there is some large army massing at the walls of the city.

The probability that the Gov't, at some point in the future, will abuse extra power given to it is almost 100%. It is a historical certainty.

Even if we feel justified in giving the Gov't extra power (trading some liberty for security) then at minimum there should be safeguards put in place. Civilian over-site of Gov't activities. Transparency and punishment of those who lie to congress and protection for whistleblowers.

Law enforcement should be punished for violations and there should be major protection and financial rewards to someone who has their rights violated illegally.

For example: We agree that drinking and driving is such a threat that we will abridge arbitrary detainment.

Fine - then the only thing the police are allowed to do is to stop you and see if you at drunk. They can not ask you for your license, insurance, check who you are in any way, search your car, nothing zero nada other than see if you are drunk.

We did not allow abridgement of arbitrary detainment to check for insurance or anything else.
 
Re: Feds: It's legal to demand fingerprints to unlock phones of everyone in a buildin

We still haven't established from this half-assed Computerworld article if the court ever even issued the order to search the phones. Attorneys ASK for things from the court all the time, but it doesn't mean the court grants the motion.

And look at the title of the article. "It's legal to demand fingerprints to unlock phones of everyone in a building." Sure, it's legal to ask for it. They can ask for anything they want. It's not illegal to petition the court for something.

This "news" article is a troll.
 
Re: Feds: It's legal to demand fingerprints to unlock phones of everyone in a buildin

We still haven't established from this half-assed Computerworld article... [snip] This "news" article is a troll.

I completely stumbled on this article from Computer World and posted it because it was the most current. It originated from a Forbes article in March which was covered by the Atlantic in May. I've linked both articles here. I OP'd because I hadn't even heard of this case previously and nowhere has MSM picked it up at all; but it seemed like a pretty significant event.

LAPD Warrant Lets Cops Open Apple iPhone With Owner's Fingerprints
Can Police Make You Use Your Fingerprint to Unlock Your Phone? - The Atlantic
 
Re: Feds: It's legal to demand fingerprints to unlock phones of everyone in a buildin

I completely stumbled on this article from Computer World and posted it because it was the most current. It originated from a Forbes article in March which was covered by the Atlantic in May. I've linked both articles here. I OP'd because I hadn't even heard of this case previously and nowhere has MSM picked it up at all; but it seemed like a pretty significant event.

LAPD Warrant Lets Cops Open Apple iPhone With Owner's Fingerprints
Can Police Make You Use Your Fingerprint to Unlock Your Phone? - The Atlantic
I wasn't criticizing you for posting it. It's led to interesting debate. I was saying the article was deficient in information. The author seems to be trolling instead of doing some objective reporting of the matter.
 
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