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Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignored?

Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

SmartCat said:
I support the U.S. Constitution only to the extent that it establishes a democratic government. At the time it was signed it was an important step forward.
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If it was an important step forward, and I agree that it was, what has it become since? You suggest that with the passage of time something has changed.

So then, is it safe to say you are a "cafeteria constitutionalist" as you pick and choose what parts of it you like, and disregard those parts you don't like?
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

SmartCat said:
I support the U.S. Constitution only to the extent that it establishes a democratic government. At the time it was signed it was an important step forward.
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The purpose of the Constitution is to protect our human rights from the whims of the ruling elite. Before you go give them any more power, just think about what President Trump will do with it.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Thoreau72 said:
If it was an important step forward, and I agree that it was, what has it become since? You suggest that with the passage of time something has changed.

So then, is it safe to say you are a "cafeteria constitutionalist" as you pick and choose what parts of it you like, and disregard those parts you don't like?
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The United States Constitution has lasted as long as it has because interpretations of it have flexed in response to changes in popular opinion.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Korimyr the Rat said:
The purpose of the Constitution is to protect our human rights from the whims of the ruling elite. Before you go give them any more power, just think about what President Trump will do with it.
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Although my candidates often lose elections I trust 51% of the voters more than nine unelected Supreme Court justices chosen for life.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

SmartCat said:
The United States Constitution has lasted as long as it has because interpretations of it have flexed in response to changes in popular opinion.
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That's a nice theory, but it doesn't always hold true. Take Kelo or Citizens United. The fascist-leaning decisions in both cases went very much against "popular opinion", assuming you mean by that the opinion of the masses. Several states had to pass new laws to work against the Kelo decision, and public sentiment against CU is very strong.

Now, if by "popular opinion" you mean the opinion and lobbying of ALEC and other special interest corporate groups, then you would be right.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Thoreau72 said:
That's a nice theory, but it doesn't always hold true. Take Kelo or Citizens United. The fascist-leaning decisions in both cases went very much against "popular opinion", assuming you mean by that the opinion of the masses. Several states had to pass new laws to work against the Kelo decision, and public sentiment against CU is very strong.

Now, if by "popular opinion" you mean the opinion and lobbying of ALEC and other special interest corporate groups, then you would be right.
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The Tenth Amendment could be used to repeal most of the economic, environmental, and civil rights legislation passed during the twentieth century. The Supreme Court has had the good sense to ignore the Tenth Amendment.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

SmartCat said:
The Tenth Amendment could be used to repeal most of the economic, environmental, and civil rights legislation passed during the twentieth century. The Supreme Court has had the good sense to ignore the Tenth Amendment.
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The Tenth neither commands the government to act, nor prohibits it from any particular act. It is merely a statement regarding the philosophy of governance, the separation of state powers from federal powers.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

SmartCat said:
Although my candidates often lose elections I trust 51% of the voters more than nine unelected Supreme Court justices chosen for life.
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In other words, you don't believe in human rights at all and you fully support the tyranny of the majority.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Korimyr the Rat said:
In other words, you don't believe in human rights at all and you fully support the tyranny of the majority.
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Your assertions assume that nine Supreme Court justices have more concern for "human rights" than most of the voters.

The minorities I care about are Jews and Orientals. Because they are not threatened by persecution and because they are thriving economically I am not concerned with the rights of other minorities. I think they earn the hostility many Americans feel for them.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

SmartCat said:
Your assertions assume that nine Supreme Court justices have more concern for "human rights" than most of the voters.

The minorities I care about are Jews and Orientals. Because they are not threatened by persecution and because they are thriving economically I am not concerned with the rights of other minorities. I think they earn the hostility many Americans feel for them.
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Wow. I'm glad I have you on the record saying that.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Here's a US Congressman, one that I've liked and respected for a long time, that asked a Department of Homeland Security official almost the same question that I asked in the OP of this thread - her non-answer is frightening. Look at her facial expressions as well, as if she had never even thought that the Constitution would prevent them from doing what they wanted to do, and how dare he even ask...

 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

the constitution creates our federal system of government, which separates power between the states and the federal government, powers enumerated in the constitution are limited and federal, all other vast powers which are not enumerated remained the powers of the states they had before the constitution.

the bill of rights are further restrictions on federal powers by recognizing the rights of the people, and prohibits the federal government from making any law concerning them.

our constitution did not create a democratic form of government, but a republican form, which is a mixed government of divided powers ( article 4 section 4, and the federalist #40)

problems with some who talk about the constitution here.

they have not read it fully or the federalist and try commenting on it with error.

those that want to only follow parts of it they like and discard parts they don't, ( in other words they wish to follow only law they like, and violate law they dont)

those who never have read it and don't care because it does not fit their agenda, and want it abolished.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

We can nullify an amendment where illegal aliens can have "anchor babies" in our Republic and take advantage of our nation. Our Constitution should be amended to further empower the American people and prevent foreigners from cheating their way into America. Freedom is NOT for free. NO SHORTCUTS.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

The 3rd amendment;) is less important
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

DianaWe said:
The 3rd amendment;) is less important
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Less important than what? And why?
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Beaudreaux said:
I've never done this before - take a post from another member and make a thread from it. I hope this isn't against the rules.
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I'm not a mod, but I'm pretty sure it's against the rules, specifically a call-out thread. Oh well.


Which rights matter to you, and which ones do not? Are there any rights that are more important than others?
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Well, first we'd have to agree exactly which rights, and to which degree, and to what extent, the various rights are protected.

More to the point, this only matters when rights come into conflict. I don't think it makes sense to categorically declare that one right should always win.

Or perhaps that's a bit aside the point. I happen to think that wide swaths of the Constitution, well... are highly inefficient at this time. Its "vetocratic" functions interfere with the ability of elected leaders to actually govern, it's too difficult to change, it's chintzy about protecting rights, states are often given too much power, and the citizens' disrespect for actual governance is often a self-fulfilling prophesy -- how can government be effective, if we do everything we can to prevent it from being effective, and spend more time looking for failures than success stories?

Worst of all, the blind and ignorant worship of the document blinds people to the advantages of other systems and/or systemic change. E.g. Most people don't know that other systems of government don't rely on judicial review as heavily as the US to settle political disputes. Ironically, those who want a weaker judiciary would, in turn, scream bloody murder if we adopted the types of systems that reduce the importance of judicial review.


In my opinion, it matters not for what purpose an erosion of a Constitutional right or protection is undertaken, the potential damage is unacceptable and must be stopped.
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Oh, I forgot to mention. Another issue is that everyone presumes that when their political desires are not met, it's an "attack" on the Constitution. Sadly, the Constitution is just as effective at tying government into knots today as in the past.


I have read post after post of why one group or another has to relinquish its rights for the greater good. Please, tell why I should agree with that.
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Sorry, but you need to be specific. There are too many variables involved to provide a blanket answer, other than "if there is a conflict, one side or another is going to win, and it might not be your side."
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

DianaWe said:
The 3rd amendment;) is less important
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I think that troops storming into one's home without cause is certainly fundamental to citizen rights in a free nation.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Beaudreaux said:
I've never done this before - take a post from another member and make a thread from it. I hope this isn't against the rules.

This thread is not to discuss Gun Control, or Muslim Banning, or any political act in and of itself, but rather the implications that one part of the US Constitution is more important or less important than another part, and why you feel that way.

I feel that the issue brought up within another thread, in the post below, is worth in-depth discussion, deep examination, and its own thread:



In that post, he is (correct me if I'm wrong) referring to the proposal to infringe on the 1st Amendment Right of Muslims (as Trump has called for) without the benefit of the protection of Due Process as guaranteed by the 5th and 14th Amendment, yet protecting the 2nd Amendment Right by one party, while at the same time, the other party is calling for the 1st Amendment Rights Muslims to be respected, while openly arguing to ban certain guns and refuse to allow certain people to buy a gun without the benefit of Due Process under the 5th and 14th Amendment (as Hillary Clinton did today in her speech from Cleveland) in an open attack on 2nd Amendment Rights. For instance, another example is the erosion of 4th Amendment by our government intercepting our emails, and other electronic communications.

So let's talk about this.

Which rights matter to you, and which ones do not? Are there any rights that are more important than others?

Please don't go into the "Your rights end where mine begin" because we all know that although there are limitations such as public accommodations. If you want to have a conversation about public accommodations and how that may impose on your religious beliefs and rights, feel free to open a new thread about that, but this isn't the thread for that discussion.

Here's my take in a nutshell - ALL of the US Constitution matters, equally. The separation of powers. The limitations placed on the governments power, and the recognition of the inalienable rights of the people and the powers reserved to the states, all are important.

In my opinion, it matters not for what purpose an erosion of a Constitutional right or protection is undertaken, the potential damage is unacceptable and must be stopped.

I have read post after post of why one group or another has to relinquish its rights for the greater good. Please, tell why I should agree with that. Pick your right that you believe must be curtailed for the greater good and why it's less important than the other rights. Not the stuff you can talk about in the Gun Control forum (like you disagree with the language interpretation), or the Religion forum (like one religion is a religion of peace and one isn't therefore the one that isn't shouldn't be allowed in the country), but why the right itself is less important than the other rights.

Please proceed under the assumption that the rights laid out in the US Constitution apply to all people within the boundaries of the United States and its possessions, not just US Citizens (pretty much because that's the truth).

Zyphlin, If I've unintentionally broken a rule by doing this, please delete or move this thread as you see fit.
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There are no unimportant parts of the Constitution and if the government thinks they can delete or rewrite parts of it I, and many others, will consider them no longer the legal government of us or the Nation and it will be time to refresh Democracy the hard way.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Casper said:
There are no unimportant parts of the Constitution and if the government thinks they can delete or rewrite parts of it I, and many others, will consider them no longer the legal government of us or the Nation and it will be time to refresh Democracy the hard way.
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need to refresh the republican form of government of "mixed government"

democracy as a "FORM" of government is evil

THE second point to be examined is, whether the [constitutional ]convention were authorized to frame and propose this mixed Constitution.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Casper said:
There are no unimportant parts of the Constitution and if the government thinks they can delete or rewrite parts of it I, and many others, will consider them no longer the legal government of us or the Nation and it will be time to refresh Democracy the hard way.
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I don't like the part that guarantees free cell phones. That should be taken out.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Brewdog said:
I don't like the part that guarantees free cell phones. That should be taken out.
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Done.
That was easy since it was not in to begin with.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Casper said:
Done.
That was easy since it was not in to begin with.
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I took law in college, dear sir. I specifically remember that Madison and Washington clearly intended for cell phones to be a right.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Brewdog said:
I took law in college, dear sir. I specifically remember that Madison and Washington clearly intended for cell phones to be a right.
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Yeah but someone forgot to add it to the actual document that was released. Maybe we can still fix that, add in it is the right of everyone citizen to have a top of the line, up to datest, handy dandiest, cell phone provided to them at government expense to ensure they happiness. Oh and will we are at it let's had something about us all also getting the latest and best truck or automobile and replaced every four years, again at the expense of the government. Man oh man, we could solve all our problems and we would be all living like kings, now to get that ball rolling.
Oh, the down side is the government is going to want ALL your money.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Casper said:
Oh, the down side is the government is going to want ALL your money.
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I sort of get the impression that they already want all of it. The dollar has United States of America printed on it, so surely it means it's their money. My name isn't anywhere on the dollar.

And while we're at it, what value does a green piece of paper have anyhow? What is the denominational difference in a ONE dollar bill and a HUNDRED dollar bill? The ink. What gives that piece of green paper any value at all?
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Brewdog said:
I sort of get the impression that they already want all of it. The dollar has United States of America printed on it, so surely it means it's their money. My name isn't anywhere on the dollar.

And while we're at it, what value does a green piece of paper have anyhow? What is the denominational difference in a ONE dollar bill and a HUNDRED dollar bill? The ink. What gives that piece of green paper any value at all?
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The government says it is worth that, funny thing though it seems to be worth less and less every year. Guess that is why I also buy silver and gold, they actually have value beyond what is printed on the coins and seem to go up in value.
 
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