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George Mason Speech

haymarket said:
And that in a nutshell separates your ideology from the reality of 2015.
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No, it doesn't. The idea that more government is needed because of advancements that were made in the last 200 plus years is just baseless statist drivel.
 
Henrin said:
No, it doesn't. The idea that more government is needed because of advancements that were made in the last 200 plus years is just baseless statist drivel.
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Another statement that shows you are not living in the reality of the world in 2015.

I sometimes ask far right posters who seem to long for the days of powdered wigs, bad fitting shoes, slaves, women as little more than house pets and chamber pots what year the calendar on their wall reads. This is a perfect example why that is necessary.
 
haymarket said:
Another statement that shows you are not living in the reality of the world in 2015.

I sometimes ask far right posters who seem to long for the days of powdered wigs, bad fitting shoes, slaves, women as little more than house pets and chamber pots what year the calendar on their wall reads. This is a perfect example why that is necessary.
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I don't see anything you listed above that would call for more governmental authority. :shrug:
 
haymarket said:
What in the world are you talking about? Lincoln defended the union and the Constitution which is its law of the land?
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Ah, the Public Gulags teach our children well.

It is unconstitutional for anyone or thing other than Congress, to*call for raising an army, let alone to declare war without the approval of Congress and then to invade a state or states. It is unconstitutional to jail thousands with out habeas corpus ( which only Congress can suspend ) It is unconstitutional to shut down any newspapers that disagree with you. It is unethical and unconstitutional to sign a warrant for the arrest of The Chief Justice of The Supreme Court because he tells you you are wrong. It was unconstitutional to instigate an income tax to pay for his war.

Lincoln was the darling of the Marxists, and many became high ranking officers in the union army.
 
haymarket said:
What in the world are you talking about? Lincoln defended the union and the Constitution which is its law of the land?
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Not really. Lincoln pretty much shredded the existing Constitution. The legality and Constitutionality of many things he did could be questioned, but aren't because the Union won. :)
 
Henrin said:
I don't see anything you listed above that would call for more governmental authority. :shrug:
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And that is most of the problem.
 
Shooterman35 said:
Ah, the Public Gulags teach our children well.

It is unconstitutional for anyone or thing other than Congress, to*call for raising an army, let alone to declare war without the approval of Congress and then to invade a state or states. It is unconstitutional to jail thousands with out habeas corpus ( which only Congress can suspend ) It is unconstitutional to shut down any newspapers that disagree with you. It is unethical and unconstitutional to sign a warrant for the arrest of The Chief Justice of The Supreme Court because he tells you you are wrong. It was unconstitutional to instigate an income tax to pay for his war.

Lincoln was the darling of the Marxists, and many became high ranking officers in the union army.
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I did not realize Karl Marx was deeply in the counsel of Lincoln.

The Civil War was the worst war the nation has been in and demanded strong leadership to get us through it. Did Lincoln stretch some powers and even go further than the letter of the law otherwise specified - sure. And he helped save the nation in the process.

Some here remind me of a person who wants to sue the fire department for all the water damage to their home when they put out the three alarm fire that threatened to burn it to the ground as well as kill some of the family.

Get over it already.
 
Removable Mind said:
He had a dog in the hunt. He played a seriously important role as one of the framers...acknowledged or not.



There were a lot of Delegates who didn't believe that a Bill of Rights was necessary. Was Mason wrong?
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Without the Bill of Rights, the government might have all of us in chains.
 
haymarket said:
Given that the world of 227 years ago no longer exists, why should anyone care about these comments?
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Because the history he referred was a 1000 years prior. So you 227 is small in comparison.
 
haymarket said:
And that is most of the problem.
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There is no problem you presented in my argument. As I said, nothing you stated would call for more governmental authority than was already granted to end.
 
Shooterman35 said:
Without the Bill of Rights, the government might have all of us in chains.
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Agree Shooter...

For those who don't understand the significance of George Mason's Contributions ....might check out the following site:

The first 10 amendments to the Constitution make up the Bill of Rights. Written by James Madison in response to calls from several states for greater constitutional protection for individual liberties, the Bill of Rights lists specific prohibitions on governmental power. The Virginia Declaration of Rights, written by George Mason, strongly influenced Madison.


ww.billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/bill-of-rights/
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Did Mason create the Virginia Declarations of Rights by pondering what he thought might constitute a viable set of rights? No. He was smart enough to not try to reinvent the wheel. He researched European history to gather the components that became the Declaration of Rights.

Madison did the same.

Such rights stem back centuries. The Magna Carta was just one of numerous sources used to model rights, which later was penned at the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution.

Mason stood up for the liberty and freedom of the average citizens and got a black eye in the history books. Go figure?
 
haymarket said:
I did not realize Karl Marx was deeply in the counsel of Lincoln.
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How deeply- who knows. You are aware he authored a letter to Lincoln from the Working Men of the World, congratulating Lincoln on his re-election. Why ever would a Marxist ( the Big Marxist himself do that?

Ever hear of the Forty-eighters, that were in Marxists uprisings all over Europe in 1848, and many escaped here to avoid punishment and consequently helped form the Republican Party , some even becoming high ranking officers in the Union Army?

The Civil War was the worst war the nation has been in and demanded strong leadership to get us through it. Did Lincoln stretch some powers and even go further than the letter of the law otherwise specified - sure. And he helped save the nation in the process.
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Indeed it was the worst, and totally uncalled for and unnecessary.
 
American said:
Because the history he referred was a 1000 years prior. So you 227 is small in comparison.
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The Mason speech was from 1788. Do the math.
 
Henrin said:
There is no problem you presented in my argument. As I said, nothing you stated would call for more governmental authority than was already granted to end.
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And what was used was that same authority of the Constitution just as the founders provided.
 
Shooterman35 said:
How deeply- who knows. You are aware he authored a letter to Lincoln from the Working Men of the World, congratulating Lincoln on his re-election. Why ever would a Marxist ( the Big Marxist himself do that?

Ever hear of the Forty-eighters, that were in Marxists uprisings all over Europe in 1848, and many escaped here to avoid punishment and consequently helped form the Republican Party , some even becoming high ranking officers in the Union Army?



Indeed it was the worst, and totally uncalled for and unnecessary.
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There is a conspiracy theory section on this site. Your fanciful musings belong better there.
 
Shooterman35 said:
None is so blind as he that will not see.
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Seeing that Karl Marx was instrumental in the policies of Abraham Lincoln requires powers that mere mortals do not have.

I Suggest the line that fits what you are trying to do with that is from Paul Simon in THE BOXER...

"a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."
 
haymarket said:
The Mason speech was from 1788. Do the math.
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You statements are ignorant and irrelevant. Anyone with sense pays attention to history, especially important historic figures like Mason.
 
American said:
You statements are ignorant and irrelevant. Anyone with sense pays attention to history, especially important historic figures like Mason.
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I see your usual vitriolic personal attack on me as a perceived enemy of your ideology - but your post is completely absent any actual factual evidence to support anything. Or are you still insisting the Mason speech was from one thousand years ago? :doh:shock::lamo

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by American
Because the history he referred was a 1000 years prior. So you 227 is small in comparison.
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ATTENTION!...do not listen to haymarket on the constitution, because he knows little on it and works for the democratic party.

George Mason rejected the constitution because he stated it give to much power to the New federal government. Remember.... the Bill of Rights was added 3 years later after the constitution ratification.

Mason and others wanted a bill of rights in the original constitution foundation, it was promised by James madison that if the constitution was ratified that one would be written, and Madison kept his promise.

the Bill of Rights are Declaratory and Restrictive Clauses placed on the federal government and to affirm FEDERALISM...ie..the 10th amendment, a separation of powers between federal government and the states.



The First 10 Amendments to the
Constitution as Ratified by the States

December 15, 1791
Preamble

Congress OF THE United States
begun and held at the City of New York, on Wednesday
the Fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its (Federal) powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution
 
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ernst barkmann said:
ATTENTION!...do not listen to haymarket on the constitution, because he knows little on it and works for the democratic party.
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In truth - Haymarket worked for 33 years as a public school educator - retired - then later was chief of staff for a Michigan legislator for three years and has been retired now for another two years.
But why let both reality and truth take a bit out of both sides of your ass?
 
haymarket said:
There is a conspiracy theory section on this site. Your fanciful musings belong better there.
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It was a simple question, really. Are yoiu aware Karl Marx wrote a letter to Lincoln on behalf of the Working Men of the World, congratulating Lincoln on his re-election? That was no conspiracy theory. It is also a fact many of the Forty-Eighters became high ranking officers in the Union Army, after helping to get the Republican Party organized in 1856. That is also not a conspiracy theory.
 
haymarket said:
In truth - Haymarket worked for 33 years as a public school educator - retired - then later was chief of staff for a Michigan legislator for three years and has been retired now for another two years.
But why let both reality and truth take a bit out of both sides of your ass?
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truth? and you worked in education?, well lets see your record on this forum.

about 1 1/2 years ago you stated...the constitution was ratified in sept 1788......well you were wrong!..you also stated the bill of rights was ratified in march of 1792 ...you were wrong!

you have also stated that a 20th century women born in 1937 who wrote a book on the declaration of independence knows more about then founders do, and you also stated that a t.v. personally named Thom Hartmann who is on RT [Russian television } knows more about the founding documents then the founders.

truth! ..it remains a mystery to you.


Thomas Carl "Thom" Hartmann is an American radio host, author, former psychotherapist, entrepreneur, and progressive political commentator.
 
Shooterman35 said:
It was a simple question, really. Are yoiu aware Karl Marx wrote a letter to Lincoln on behalf of the Working Men of the World, congratulating Lincoln on his re-election? That was no conspiracy theory. It is also a fact many of the Forty-Eighters became high ranking officers in the Union Army, after helping to get the Republican Party organized in 1856. That is also not a conspiracy theory.
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So what?
 
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