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The end of affirmative action?

SmartCat said:
President Johnson introduced the concept of affirmative action during a 1965 speech at Howard University when he used the metaphor of the shackled runner. He argued that because blacks had been unfairly held back in the past, they should be allowed to begin the race a little ahead of the starting line.

He was advocating affirmative action as a temporary expedient designed to help a race which was considered to be intrinsically equal to whites.

From such humble origins affirmative action has become a permanent entitlement that is granted to any race with a history of lower than white achievement levels. This is considered necessary to achieve diversity. We are told that diversity is our strength, although we are never told just what the advantages of diversity are.

I think diversity is only useful if there is no diversity of talent.

If whites attend school with or work with blacks who are obviously less intelligent than nearly all of the whites the experience is not likely to dispel racial prejudice; it is likely to increase it.
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When you talk about white achievement, as if white people are being personally disadvantaged, please consider the facts. In states like CA where AA was tossed out, it's mostly Asians getting into the top schools now, and whites are becoming a minority in the US.
 
SmartCat said:
There are many bosses who dislike Jews, Orientals, and/or homosexuals. Jews, Orientals, and homosexuals still tend to earn more money than white heterosexual Gentiles.
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And what if, in 20 plus years, all the top executives, bankers, investors, etc. are mostly Asian, coalescing around their own culture and identity while whites become a minority. You Ok with that?
 
End of affirmative action? That sounds very much in line with egalitarian principals to me.
 
calamity said:
Scalia had some biting comments on this subject today.



Well, at least people aren't holding back anymore.
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Scalia was not being racist if that is what you are implying. He was not referring to all blacks. He was referring to students who get accepted to certain schools through minority scholarships, who might not have been ready for a fast paced curriculum. He suggested that the students in that situation might be better served by attending slower paced schools to get them up to speed.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Scalia was not being racist if that is what you are implying. He was not referring to all blacks. He was referring to students who get accepted to certain schools through minority scholarships, who might not have been ready for a fast paced curriculum. He suggested that the students in that situation might be better served by attending slower paced schools to get them up to speed.
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I don't see it as racist, just the truth. What he said is supported by several studies.
 
SheWolf said:
When you talk about white achievement, as if white people are being personally disadvantaged, please consider the facts. In states like CA where AA was tossed out, it's mostly Asians getting into the top schools now, and whites are becoming a minority in the US.
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Orientals earn their places in the top schools and with the best corporations.
 
SheWolf said:
And what if, in 20 plus years, all the top executives, bankers, investors, etc. are mostly Asian, coalescing around their own culture and identity while whites become a minority. You Ok with that?
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Yes.

There are not going to be more Orientals than whites in the general population. Orientals are already disproportionately represented in the professions. They deserve it because of their high IQ's and hard work.
 
SmartCat said:
Yes.

There are not going to be more Orientals than whites in the general population. Orientals are already disproportionately represented in the professions. They deserve it because of their high IQ's and hard work.
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Somewhere along the line, the term Oriental for people has become offensive. Apparently you and I did not get that memo.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Somewhere along the line, the term Oriental for people has become offensive. Apparently you and I did not get that memo.
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ask orientals and they didnt get the memo either. oriental and asian mean the same exact thing, one is greek and one is latin. like we say in louisiana...say levee
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Somewhere along the line, the term Oriental for people has become offensive. Apparently you and I did not get that memo.
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I got the memo, but because I had not been consulted about the change I continue to use the word "Oriental." I use it for Chinese, and for nations that learned civilization from China. These are Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. I have admired Orientals ever since I was a child.

I have even been told that the word "Negro" has become offensive. Now we are supposed to call them "African Americans." I have never heard a Negro use the term "African American." If American Negroes are to be called "African Americans," what should we call African Negroes? "African Africans."

People who get upset about that sort of things should become upset about genuine problems.

Oriental Oriental Oriental Negro Negro Negro
 
katzgar said:
ask orientals and they didnt get the memo either. oriental and asian mean the same exact thing, one is greek and one is latin. like we say in louisiana...say levee
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When I told my Vietnamese girl friend I preferred Oriental women, she did not get angry. She smiled and said, "You think we are much more wonderful."
 
TurtleDude said:
there are cases where diversity does serve a valid purpose. For example, you are the Police Commissioner of a large city and your city is plagued with say ethnic based crime gangs. Maybe the Mafia, Maybe Russian gangs, Chinese "Tongs" or Nigerian heroin rings. Hiring some officers of Russian, Chinese or Nigerian backgrounds makes sense since a detective named "Sean O'Malley" is gonna have a hard time pretending he is Sicilian or Nigerian
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It's always good to have a couple of mobsters on staff for the right occasions. :lol:
 
haymarket said:
The main business of college is to acquire an academic education and hopefully a degree. If this is about the best to do that, academics should be the only consideration.

The NCAA should reform the rules which prevent ANY COLLEGE from recruiting or offering anything to any possible student to come there. Anyone who gets admitted has the opportunity to try out for the teams and if you make it - you get the free ride and expense money as that will also be your part time job.

Legacy admissions for family ties and admissions bought with donations would also be forbidden.
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Wow... talk about idealism run amuck. Sorry, pal, but that ship has not only sailed, its become rusty from over use and is ready to be mothballed. We are a long, long, long way from college sports being about something that good students do on the side. The NCAA is big business and colleges will continue to have affirmative action programs for athletes, looking the other way at grades, SAT scores and criminal backgrounds so long as their 40 yard sprint speed is up to snuff.

BTW, colleges or at least universities, have a multi-faceted function. Their job is not solely or sometimes even primarily to grant degrees.
 
upsideguy said:
Wow... talk about idealism run amuck. Sorry, pal, but that ship has not only sailed, its become rusty from over use and is ready to be mothballed. We are a long, long, long way from college sports being about something that good students do on the side. The NCAA is big business and colleges will continue to have affirmative action programs for athletes, looking the other way at grades, SAT scores and criminal backgrounds so long as their 40 yard sprint speed is up to snuff.

BTW, colleges or at least universities, have a multi-faceted function. Their job is not solely or sometimes even primarily to grant degrees.
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If we consider removal of college affirmative action programs - my only request is we do just that and NOT concentrate only on one narrow form of it. And athletics would be included in that removal.
 
SmartCat said:
Yes.

There are not going to be more Orientals than whites in the general population. Orientals are already disproportionately represented in the professions. They deserve it because of their high IQ's and hard work.
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There is going to be a lot less whites in the general population in the next 20 years. Asians may not be the majority population, but whites will start becoming a minority. I am not afraid of white people becoming a minority, but I am aware of racism in all groups of people. White Americans have never experienced real racism. Their biggest complaint and only concept of racism is Affirmative Action. White Americans don't generally deal with prejudice attitudes like "what do you expect from white people?" Because of your race you can't do anything right, your individual talents will be overlooked, you will never be accepted as equal because of skin color, etc. When white people become a minority, they may actually start experiencing real racism by other ethnic and cultural groups.
 
katzgar said:
ask orientals and they didnt get the memo either. oriental and asian mean the same exact thing, one is greek and one is latin. like we say in louisiana...say levee
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When somebody online uses the word oriental, I think they must be well over 50. It's not a common word to use anymore.
 
SmartCat said:
I got the memo, but because I had not been consulted about the change I continue to use the word "Oriental." I use it for Chinese, and for nations that learned civilization from China. These are Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. I have admired Orientals ever since I was a child.

I have even been told that the word "Negro" has become offensive. Now we are supposed to call them "African Americans." I have never heard a Negro use the term "African American." If American Negroes are to be called "African Americans," what should we call African Negroes? "African Africans."

People who get upset about that sort of things should become upset about genuine problems.

Oriental Oriental Oriental Negro Negro Negro
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I think you should talk about others respectfully. It's not that hard to do.
 
SheWolf said:
When somebody online uses the word oriental, I think they must be well over 50. It's not a common word to use anymore.
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Lol true on the Oriental thing. I Know what is meant but it just looks awkward.

and err say levee? is that the Louisiana version of c'est la vie? Ive never been to lousiana, which is such a shame because I love love love Cajun food.
 
SheWolf said:
I think you should talk about others respectfully. It's not that hard to do.
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i talk to others respectfully, but I have no use for political correctness. I think a lot of people are getting sick of it. Why do you think Donald Trump is so popular? How about Rush Limbaugh?
 
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SheWolf said:
When somebody online uses the word oriental, I think they must be well over 50. It's not a common word to use anymore.
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I prefer Oriental to Asian, because an Asian can be a Caucasian. I prefer it to Mongoloid, because a Mongoloid can be an American Indian, or a mentally retarded person.

"African American" is a preposterous term. It has too many syllables.

I do not care if times have changed. I have not changed. I am not going to change. While we are on the subject, during my life I have noticed a whole lot of changes I did not like.

So, I say again: Oriental Oriental Oriental Negro Negro Negro. Get used to it.

While I am on the subject, Indian Indian Indian Eskimo Eskimo Eskimo. Tell me some other words I am not supposed to use, so I will start using them.
 
SheWolf said:
I think you should talk about others respectfully. It's not that hard to do.
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When does a girl become a woman? I have heard of sixteen year old girls called "Young women." That is silly. As far as I am concerned a girl becomes a women on her 20th birthday. A nineteen year old female is a teenage girl.

I will agree with you that is condescending to call a middle aged woman a girl, just as it is condescending to call a black man (a black male over 19) a boy.
 
SheWolf said:
When somebody online uses the word oriental, I think they must be well over 50. It's not a common word to use anymore.
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A Korean-American (first generation US born) attorney in my office said that her family considered "Oriental" improper. SO does my Chinese-American sister in law. However, a couple first generation Chinese-American athletes I coach don't care one way or the other. SO I don't use the term
 
SmartCat said:
I prefer Oriental to Asian, because an Asian can be a Caucasian. I prefer it to Mongoloid, because a Mongoloid can be an American Indian, or a mentally retarded person.

"African American" is a preposterous term. It has too many syllables.

I do not care if times have changed. I have not changed. I am not going to change. While we are on the subject, during my life I have noticed a whole lot of changes I did not like.

So, I say again: Oriental Oriental Oriental Negro Negro Negro. Get used to it.
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I think it's funny that you insist what people of another race should be called based on your own definitions of their identity. :doh


... and I wouldn't consider your behavior unPC. In some ways, you're trying to define your own political correctness and argue for its acceptance. The right to self determination implies the right for one to define themselves, not for you to do so.
 
TurtleDude said:
A Korean-American (first generation US born) attorney in my office said that her family considered "Oriental" improper. SO does my Chinese-American sister in law. However, a couple first generation Chinese-American athletes I coach don't care one way or the other. SO I don't use the term
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I agree. I view the issue as one largely of individual respect. It depends on what the person is comfortable with.
 
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