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Electoral college***[W:862,1203]***

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Imperium populi

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The electoral college is illogical yet still persists to exist. It makes it difficult for 3rd parties to win and distorts the popular vote. If you could create a new system what would it be? How would it work? I'm interested to know.
 
Re: Electoral college

Imperium populi said:
The electoral college is illogical yet still persists to exist. It makes it difficult for 3rd parties to win and distorts the popular vote. If you could create a new system what would it be? How would it work? I'm interested to know.
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If one dislikes the system, making EVs proportional in every state solves the problem while basically eliminating the electoral as a meaningful body. This will weaken the influence of small states.

Regarding third parties, first they need their percentage then they can worry about EVs.
 
Re: Electoral college

The founding fathers put the electoral college in place for a damn good reason.
 
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Times are different and it has created ties and problems on many occasions.
 
Re: Electoral college

reinoe said:
The founding fathers put the electoral college in place for a damn good reason.
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Is that reason justifiable to this day?
 
Re: Electoral college

Imperium populi said:
Times are different and it has created ties and problems on many occasions.
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those who wish to cast aside the framework the founders set up for short term gratification often cause long term problems. such as the idiotic 16th and 17th Amendments that caused the federal government to go from a benign growth to a malignant tumor
 
Re: Electoral college

reinoe said:
Yes, the average American is still an ignorant moron. Less excusable in this day and age than back then.
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How does that justify the electoral college?
 
Re: Electoral college

Imperium populi said:
The electoral college is illogical yet still persists to exist. It makes it difficult for 3rd parties to win and distorts the popular vote. If you could create a new system what would it be? How would it work? I'm interested to know.
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It would be better to simply have a hereditary monarchy. Insofar as we have a democratic head of state, the electoral college is a pretty good method of choosing, although state legislatures should reclaim the right to directly select their electors.
 
Re: Electoral college

Imperium populi said:
Times are different and it has created ties and problems on many occasions.
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Well why don't you enlighten us, because just saying it doesn't make it so.
 
Re: Electoral college

Imperium populi said:
Times are different and it has created ties and problems on many occasions.
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Times are always different from generation to generation. Generational changes do not constitute a meaningful reason to do or not do anything in particular with regard to government. What you're trying avoid saying is that you see a short term political benefit.
 
Re: Electoral college

TheDemSocialist said:
Is that reason justifiable to this day?
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Excellent question. Obviously they wanted a check on the power of the majority of people. So they gave elitists like themselves a final power where they could say screw you to the election results. Even in 1787 that was highly questionable if such a mechanism was what a new nation wanted.

Today - the calendar reads 2015 and the EC should be abolished and the President elected by who gets the most votes.

Unless you are still afraid of the people. Then you need some elects mechanism to screw the will of the people again.
 
Re: Electoral college

Imperium populi said:
The electoral college is illogical yet still persists to exist. It makes it difficult for 3rd parties to win and distorts the popular vote. If you could create a new system what would it be? How would it work? I'm interested to know.
Click to expand...

The EC is VERY logical. It serves as part of the idea of separation of Powers that is fundamental to our form of government. Congress is elected by a popular vote, the President is elected by the States, the Supreme Court is selected by those two bodies working together. This keeps the power from getting concentrated too much in any one group. It is a GOOD thing and VERY logical.
 
Re: Electoral college

Beaudreaux said:
Direct democracy is the surest and shortest path to the majority oppressing the minority.
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If we got rid of the electoral college and decided presidential elections by popular vote that would still not be direct democracy...
 
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Bad presidents are always elected by popularity and charisma, not character and upholding the law and te constitution.

Oh, and the electoral college does go with the ill of the people.
 
Re: Electoral college

reinoe said:
The founding fathers put the electoral college in place for a damn good reason.
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What if they got it wrong? Does it have to stay wrong forever?
 
Re: Electoral college

TheDemSocialist said:
If we got rid of the electoral college and decided presidential elections by popular vote that would still not be direct democracy...
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The Presidency should have not changed the election standard and should have stuck with party run conventions with real ballots for nomination, and also the Electors being pledged by the states and their state conventions.

Popular elections are just that - a frigging popularity contest.

The US House of Representatives is where the founders saw and wanted the People to be represented. The Senate was supposed to be the place that the States were represented, until that went to a popular vote in 1912. And, the President was supposed to be combination of the states and the people get the most qualified and capable person to be the CEO and run the Executive Branch. Every state has a "winner takes all" process for their Electors to the Electoral College, except for Maine and Nebraska which allocate by percentage the number of Electors to each candidate based on the percentage of the vote they received in the Presidential Election. People in the US do not elect the President. They vote to tell the Electors how to vote in the Electoral College. And, that should not change, except maybe to go back to the original "Virginia" process that was on place for the first President.

I know it's a very politically incorrect stance to take, but I think that the House of Representatives is where the PEOPLE should have their say. The first paragraph of the 17th Amendment should be repealed because as it is now, the states have no voice in the federal government as the founding fathers intended.
 
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BOTTOM LINE:

The Electoral college will never be abolished. The power lies with the small states now...and there is no way they will give it up.

They have the votes to insure that.
 
Re: Electoral college

reinoe said:
The founding fathers put the electoral college in place for a damn good reason.
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It is not like those guys were gods or anything... they made mistakes too.
 
Re: Electoral college

Grand Mal said:
What if they got it wrong? Does it have to stay wrong forever?
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No they got it right. The average American still knows bumpkiss about politics in this country let alone the rest of the world and should not be trusted with making the final choice on who gets elected.
 
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