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Our US Constitution Doesn't Handle Inflexible Ideologies

haymarket said:
No mistake was made as you frequently make the mistake of confusing the First and Second Amendments and you just did it again in 269.
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analogy-something you apparently missed. I am using your stilted interpretation of the 2nd A and showing what such silliness would do if applied to the first
 
TurtleDude said:
analogy-something you apparently missed. I am using your stilted interpretation of the 2nd A and showing what such silliness would do if applied to the first
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But only somebody trying to perpetrate an intellectual fraud would intentionally switch amendments like that when they are different.
 
haymarket said:
I gave you many instances where it does. Your refusal to admit that simply shows you do not live in the real world with the rest of us. Perhaps that is why not one Justice in over 220 years agrees with your Mad Hatter delusional interpretation of the powers of Congress?
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what you show is...you try to make your points using the CONSTITUTION.

however every time you do...its bites you back, and when you see you have failed using it, you put on your track shows, and run back to the USSC.

I had advised you months ago, the constitution is not your friend.
 
ernst barkmann said:
what you show is...you try to make your points using the CONSTITUTION.

however every time you do...its bites you back, and when you see you have failed using it, you put on your track shows, and run back to the USSC.

I had advised you months ago, the constitution is not your friend.
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Do you actually believe that the Constitution is some document under glass in the Archives Building that bears no relationship to the rest of the USA?

You must be laboring under such willful delusion for you to make your inane statement about the private lives of citizens and the absolute ridculous claims that Congress passing a declaration of war - such as WW2 against your favorites - was not something involving the personal lives of people.
 
haymarket said:
Do you actually believe that the Constitution is some document under glass in the Archives Building that bears no relationship to the rest of the USA?

You must be laboring under such willful delusion for you to make your inane statement about the private lives of citizens and the absolute ridculous claims that Congress passing a declaration of war - such as WW2 against your favorites - was not something involving the personal lives of people.
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explain how.... by the power of congress declaring a war, gives them authority in my personal life according to article 1 section 8

taxes?......am I forced to pay for it...no..... taxes in article 1 section 8 are voluntary.

am I force to go to war by a power of congress in article 1 section 8....no.....nothing about enlistment...there was no draft when the founders created the constitution

so tell me what power of congress in article section 8 compels a citizen to do anything.....

what power forces a citizen to do anything?

what power forces them to pay for anything?

that power gives congress authority to lay a law on the backs of citizens..in article 1 section 8

the constitution creates federalism....separation of powers between the states and the federal government...... it does create government power over the people.
 
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ernst barkmann said:
explain how.... by the power of congress declaring a war, gives them authority in my personal life according to article 1 section 8

taxes?......am I forced to pay for it...no..... taxes in article 1 section 8 are voluntary.

am I force to go to war by a power of congress in article section 8....no.....nothing about enlistment...there was no draft when the founders created the constitution

so tell me what power of congress in article section 8 compels a citizen to do anything.....

what power forces a citizen to for anything?

what power forces them to pay for anything?

that power gives congress authority to lay a law on the backs of citizens..in article 1 section 8
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Are you actually claiming that your country going to war like we did in World War II does not reach into ones personal life?

What does that mean when you say "on the backs of citizens"?
 
haymarket said:
Are you actually claiming that your country going to war like we did in World War II does not reach into ones personal life?

What does that mean when you say "on the backs of citizens"?
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if the government goes to war, what powers of article 1 section 8... force me pay for that war?......none


if the government goes to war, what powers of article 1 section 8......force me go to war...........none


if the government goes to war, what powers of article 1 section 8... gives the government power penalize me, for not being part of a war?......none

laying laws on the backs of people means...........government has no authority to create laws over you the average citizen, because congress is not given that power under article 1 section 8....no such power is delegated to them.

again the constitution deals with STATE governments, and the FEDERAL government...........it does not deal with people.

the people are granted or given no rights, they are not prohibited by the constitituion, the life's of citizens.....which in 1787 there are only states citizens, no u.s. citizens exist ... lifes of the people are powers of the states.
 
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ernst barkmann said:
again the constitution deals with STATE governments, and the FEDERAL government...........it does not deal with people.

the people are granted or given no rights, they are not prohibited by the constitituion, the life's of citizens.....which in 1787 there are only states citizens, no u.s.citizens ...are powers of the states.
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This makes no sense in any way shape or from given the realities we live in, decisions of the Supreme Court and the very simple fact that the USA is made up of people and nearly everything done by government effects, impacts touches the lives of somebody in one way or the other.

Which is probably why not one Justice has agreed with your cockamamie delusions about the limits of Congressional power.
 
haymarket said:
This makes no sense in any way shape or from given the realities we live in, decisions of the Supreme Court and the very simple fact that the USA is made up of people and nearly everything done by government effects, impacts touches the lives of somebody in one way or the other.

Which is probably why not one Justice has agreed with your cockamamie delusions about the limits of Congressional power.
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I want you to show me, were "people" are in the constitution, are granted anything by it - prohibited by it - or where it says congress has authority over the people by it.

point to the clause in the constitution.


I already know your not going to do it, because the constitution bites you everytime.
 
ernst barkmann said:
I want you to show me, were "people" are in the constitution, are granted anything by it - prohibited by it - or where it says congress has authority over the people by it.

point to the clause in the constitution.


I already know your not going to do it, because the constitution bites you everytime.
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Read the words that begin it.... WE THE PEOPLE. Who the hell do you think the Constitution is written for if not the people?

Are you really delusional enough to believe that the entire Constitution was written for something other than the people? And who would that something then be that you claim it was written for if not for the people?


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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Its right there in black and white for you and has been for over 225 years now.
 
you did not show me where it states in the constitution grants/ give rights, prohibits the people, gives government power over them.

you deflected again.

the preamble is the goal of the constitution, it has no power to it....it has no action.

the constitution creates the federal government delegates it few powers, and creates federalism.......where are the people [ directed or be granted ] in it clauses...please list them.

this shows me you know nothing of the constitution...nothing.
 
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ernst barkmann said:
you did not show me where it states in the constitution grants/ give rights, prohibits the people, gives government power over them.

you deflected again.

the preamble is the goal of the constitution, it has no power to it....it has no action.

the constitution creates the federal government delegates it few powers, and creates federalism.......where are the people [ directed or be granted ] in it clauses...please list them.

this shows me you know nothing of the constitution...nothing.
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The people are prominently mentioned in the Preamble around which the entire Constitution is built. It cleary says that the Constitution is for the people and their descendants.

So I ask you again - if all those powers congress can exercise DO NOT apply to laws that people have to obey - who the hell are they for? Animals? Cactus? Sea life?

Barkmann - your argument is convoluted that I absolutely have no idea what you are talking about.
Honestly.
Thruthfully.
Sincerely.

What you are saying makes absolutely no sense to the point that I have no idea what your point is or what your argument is.

Perhaps that is why not a single US Justice in over220 years has ever issued an opinion agreeing with your extremist view of the rights of Congress.
 
haymarket said:
The people are prominently mentioned in the Preamble around which the entire Constitution is built. It cleary says that the Constitution is for the people and their descendants.

So I ask you again - if all those powers congress can exercise DO NOT apply to laws that people have to obey - who the hell are they for? Animals? Cactus? Sea life?

Barkmann - your argument is convoluted that I absolutely have no idea what you are talking about.
Honestly.
Thruthfully.
Sincerely.

What you are saying makes absolutely no sense to the point that I have no idea what your point is or what your argument is.

Perhaps that is why not a single US Justice in over220 years has ever issued an opinion agreeing with your extremist view of the rights of Congress.
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the constitution does not make the people OBEY....WHERE DO YOU GET THIS IDEA?

this is a perfect example of your thinking government is the master and the people the servant!



none of the power of congress have any authority over the average citizen .....show me where it is!

government can only punish you for piracy, counterfeiting and treason in the body of the constitution, and that is all....and you have to commit a crime, for that to take place. Again it cannot make laws on the backs of the people.

the constitution creates the government, it delegates them FEW powers....it creates a separation of power between the states and the federal

government....it does not grant government powers to control the people.....no such thing exist in the constitution, and when I asked you to show me....you DEFLECT.

out of all the statements you have made you have not shown me a power in article 1 section 8 that grants government power to create a law on the backs of the people.....not one.
 
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ernst barkmann said:
the constitution does not make the people OBEY....WHERE DO YOU GET THIS IDEA?

this is a perfect example of your thinking government is the master and the people the servant!



none of the power of congress have any authority over the average citizen .....show me where it is!

government can only punish you for piracy, counterfeiting and treason in the body of the constitution, and that is all....and you have to commit a crime, for that to take place. Again it cannot make laws on the backs of the people.

the constitution creates the government, it delegates them FEW powers....it creates a separation of power between the states and the federal

government....it does not grant government powers to control the people.....no such thing exist in the constitution, and when I asked you to show me....you DEFLECT.

out of all the statements you have made you have not shown me a power in article 1 section 8 that grants government power to create a law on the backs of the people.....not one.
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Barkmann - My major in college was Political Science. I have a Masters Degree. I taught Government and US History for 33 years.

And despite all that - I do not have the foggiest idea of what you are talking about or what your point is. You make no sense.

Not one single Justice in over 220 years has ever laid out a vision for the powers of Congress as you are attempting to do. Not one.

You use senseless phrases like "on the backs of the people"...... and make no sense at all in doing it.

The preamble clearly states that the Constitution is written by the people and for the people. Where you are getting your nonsense from is a place far more eerie than Wonderland and the Twilight ZOne combined.

When the Constitution clearly says CONGRESS SHALL HAVE THE POWER - who the heck do you think they have the power to make laws for and have they obeyed or complied with?
 
haymarket said:
Barkmann - My major in college was Political Science. I have a Masters Degree. I taught Government and US History for 33 years.

And despite all that - I do not have the foggiest idea of what you are talking about or what your point is. You make no sense.

Not one single Justice in over 220 years has ever laid out a vision for the powers of Congress as you are attempting to do. Not one.

You use senseless phrases like "on the backs of the people"...... and make no sense at all in doing it.

The preamble clearly states that the Constitution is written by the people and for the people. Where you are getting your nonsense from is a place far more eerie than Wonderland and the Twilight ZOne combined.

When the Constitution clearly says CONGRESS SHALL HAVE THE POWER - who the heck do you think they have the power to make laws for and have they obeyed or complied with?
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well I am very sad for you, because you have not learned much.

it was you who thought income tax came from article 1 section 8 clause 1...which is a commerce tax on states.

it was you, who did not know what the founding principles were.

it was you who though the founders granted the federal government commerce power inside the states, ...however that was done by the USSC in 1942.


what you have not learned is the constitution does not apply to the people, it applies to government, because it creates it.... delegates to it,...... and restricts it.

it does not create the people, it does not delegate anything to the people, it does not restrict the people.

the constitution ONLY creates federalism, it does NOT is any way have POWER SHARING IN THE CONSTITUTION.

how can the federal government regulate commerce inside of a state, and that state government ALSO regulate commerce inside its state.... that would have both government(s) sharing the same power.

congress has general powers in article 1 section 8....meaning they are not defined powers.......federal law creation defines them.

none of the general powers have anything to do with the people, they are powers for the union, ...not the people....they bind the union together, all other powers are states powers, meant to be for the life's liberty and property of the people.
 
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ernst barkmann said:
the constitution does not make the people OBEY....WHERE DO YOU GET THIS IDEA?

this is a perfect example of your thinking government is the master and the people the servant!



none of the power of congress have any authority over the average citizen .....show me where it is!

government can only punish you for piracy, counterfeiting and treason in the body of the constitution, and that is all....and you have to commit a crime, for that to take place. Again it cannot make laws on the backs of the people.

the constitution creates the government, it delegates them FEW powers....it creates a separation of power between the states and the federal

government....it does not grant government powers to control the people.....no such thing exist in the constitution, and when I asked you to show me....you DEFLECT.

out of all the statements you have made you have not shown me a power in article 1 section 8 that grants government power to create a law on the backs of the people.....not one.
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haymarket believes that the government rules the people - of course he would, he's been taught that in the government school he attended. He's been indoctrinated - as has most of America.

It reminds me of Francis Gary Powers and how easily he was brainwashed. Some people can resist attempts to brainwash them, some can't. The weaker a person is, the more liberal they are, i.e. they haven't the fortitude to resist indoctrination.

Since the government schools are nothing more than indoctrination centers for progressivism, anyone who can emerge from that shelling and understand the actual principles of freedom, is someone who had a strong enough internal constitution to resist the lies, reject them, and stand firm on what they know is true.

Liberals/progressives/socialists etc are weakminded, and therefore are easy prey for the brainwashers.
 
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