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Protest against Chinese President Hu.

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
:roll:Coercive interogation isn't torture. And we're talking about the Abu Gharib pictures that you posted, nobody endorced that and the people guilty are in jail you keep shifting goal posts.
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OH please, whatever dude, coercive interrogation is just a fancy name for torture. :roll:
As for endorcement, indeed rummy endorsed it as did Gonzales at the senate hearings.

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
I never changed the premise you did.
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:baby1

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
What Ludahai said.

Good answer.

Oh realy:
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Yes very really, I said show us something we don't already know? What's so difficult about that to understand?
 
jfuh said:
This mean she's another statistic how?? Tot was giving a baseless assumption, I showed the err.
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She has a Chinese first and last name and speaks moderately accented English. She was protesting the barbaric behavior of the Chinese regime against a Chinese spiritual movement. Seems that TOT made a REASONABLE ASSUMPTION in saying that she is a Chinese protester.
 
jfuh said:
OH please, whatever dude, coercive interrogation is just a fancy name for torture. :roll:
As for endorcement, indeed rummy endorsed it as did Gonzales at the senate hearings.
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It's not a fancy name for torture, it's coercive interogation of people who want to kill Americans so Gonzalez and Rummy didn't endorce torture of innocent people at the senate hearings, so there ya go.
:baby1
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Good one. :roll:

Yes very really, I said show us something we don't already know? What's so difficult about that to understand?
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So because we already know it we shouldn't protest it?


This started when you changed the subject from abuses endorsed by the Chinese government against the Falun Gong to abu-Gharib and then accused me of changing the premise which is what you yourself did while at the same time attacking the protestor by calling her a maniac.
 
jfuh said:
This mean she's another statistic how?? Tot was giving a baseless assumption, I showed the err.
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So are you saying that she wasn't a Chinese protestor? I said the person in the Tianamen "protestor," picture was about to become a Chinese human rights abuse statistic, the woman who was "protesting," was a Chinese protestor who was protesting Chinese human rights abuses to which you posted Abu-Gharib pictures, who's changing the premise now?
 
ludahai said:
She has a Chinese first and last name and speaks moderately accented English. She was protesting the barbaric behavior of the Chinese regime against a Chinese spiritual movement. Seems that TOT made a REASONABLE ASSUMPTION in saying that she is a Chinese protester.
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Thus I repeat my question. How has she become another statistic on the tortures of China against the falun gong?
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
It's not a fancy name for torture, it's coercive interogation of people who want to kill Americans so Gonzalez and Rummy didn't endorce torture of innocent people at the senate hearings, so there ya go.
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This is total :bs. THe KGB did it for years without yielding any useful results. Hell even the Israelis outlawed it. SO tell me, what's the difference between techniques invovled in torture vs "coercive interogation"?

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
So because we already know it we shouldn't protest it?

This started when you changed the subject from abuses endorsed by the Chinese government against the Falun Gong to abu-Gharib and then accused me of changing the premise which is what you yourself did while at the same time attacking the protestor by calling her a maniac.
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Going around in circles again. I made my argument very clear. If you care to argue it go ahead. I'm not going to argue with you about "technicalities".
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
So are you saying that she wasn't a Chinese protestor? I said the person in the Tianamen "protestor," picture was about to become a Chinese human rights abuse statistic, the woman who was "protesting," was a Chinese protestor who was protesting Chinese human rights abuses to which you posted Abu-Gharib pictures, who's changing the premise now?
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She's definetely of Chinese decent, however you can not call her Chinese, because she may very well already have US or another nation's citizenship. :ranton:This automatic assumption of nationality is the exact second class treatment that I've brought up in the immigration threads that you do not understand.


The whole thing was a stage IMO. Let's see how difficult it is to get into the white house press conference when you have a foreign nation's leader. It was to loose face for Hu. Then turn around and give a little apology. I don't care if this was the president of Zimbabwae, PM of France, you do not allow such things to occur if you've invited the leader of another nation. It shows a lack of respect. The "mishap" of saying "And now please stand for the national anthem of the Republic of China". I was stoked when I heard that but again, come on, US and ROC haven't had a state visit in more then 25 years, that's far beyond a simple mistake. :rantoff:

Also, do you know the number reason ppl join falun gong in China? Immigration to the US. Joining is almost a gaurentee that you're immigration would be approved by the US embassy, it's essentially a political assylum. Do you even know what Falun gong is or what thier religious beliefs are? Don't google it, just answer.
 
jfuh said:
Thus I repeat my question. How has she become another statistic on the tortures of China against the falun gong?
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Did I claim that she was another statistic? All TOT and I are claiming is that the Chinese government is engaging in a barbaric act against people simply wishing to practice their religion - and it isn't only Falungong.

You were making the rediculous assumption that we were targeting her race when in fact we were both making VERY reasonable assumptions that she was Chinese-born based on her name and accent. You attacked TOT for that, yet you have yet to refute the simple premises for that supposition.
 
jfuh said:
She's definetely of Chinese decent, however you can not call her Chinese, because she may very well already have US or another nation's citizenship. :ranton:This automatic assumption of nationality is the exact second class treatment that I've brought up in the immigration threads that you do not understand.
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I don't think the original reference TOT made said she was a Chinese citizen. YOU read that. She is obviously Chinese (ethnicity and/or citizen!) I believe the original reference said she was a Chinese protester. If she is merely ethnic Chinese or Chinese-born, the adjective applies in either case.


The whole thing was a stage IMO. Let's see how difficult it is to get into the white house press conference when you have a foreign nation's leader. It was to loose face for Hu. Then turn around and give a little apology. I don't care if this was the president of Zimbabwae, PM of France, you do not allow such things to occur if you've invited the leader of another nation. It shows a lack of respect. The "mishap" of saying "And now please stand for the national anthem of the Republic of China". I was stoked when I heard that but again, come on, US and ROC haven't had a state visit in more then 25 years, that's far beyond a simple mistake.
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Freedom of the press. Perhaps you ChiCom loving anti-freedom types should note that the United States holds that dearly, even if you invite people from press outlets that are hostile to the person coming.

Also, do you know the number reason ppl join falun gong in China? Immigration to the US. Joining is almost a gaurentee that you're immigration would be approved by the US embassy, it's essentially a political assylum. Do you even know what Falun gong is or what thier religious beliefs are? Don't google it, just answer.
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I have a book about Falungong that was published by Xinhua in 1996! It seemed ok with the Chinese authorities then! I know what it is, and there is absolutely no reason for the way they are being treated. Falungong isn't the only religious group treated in a barbaric manner. The Roman Catholics are also being persecuted, hounded and sent to laogai as well.
 
ludahai said:
Did I claim that she was another statistic? All TOT and I are claiming is that the Chinese government is engaging in a barbaric act against people simply wishing to practice their religion - and it isn't only Falungong.

You were making the rediculous assumption that we were targeting her race when in fact we were both making VERY reasonable assumptions that she was Chinese-born based on her name and accent. You attacked TOT for that, yet you have yet to refute the simple premises for that supposition.
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You did not claim her as a statistic. However that is what Tot claimed.
Rediculous would be if I had no basis for the argument. However I believe that the nationality of the woman was very much at the center of the argument. Injustices made by beijing have not been my argue point at all on this, as you should've been able to see, the argue point has been of how the case has been presented. Tot presented photo's with no argument whatsoever.
 
jfuh said:
You did not claim her as a statistic. However that is what Tot claimed.
Rediculous would be if I had no basis for the argument. However I believe that the nationality of the woman was very much at the center of the argument. Injustices made by beijing have not been my argue point at all on this, as you should've been able to see, the argue point has been of how the case has been presented. Tot presented photo's with no argument whatsoever.
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will all you people please STFU about stupid pictures! MOVE ON ALREADY!!
 
My_name_is_not_Larry said:
will all you people please STFU about stupid pictures! MOVE ON ALREADY!!
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No problem.

Point of order. The Chinese leadership is a barbaric and loathsome thing. Those thousand old men suck. A whole society based on the don't loose face concept.

A Chinese and a American are in a phone booth. The Chinese cuts one (feng pi). The American says "damn man, that's foul." The Chinese says "I didn't do anything." Now they both know damn well who cut one. But the Chinese goes about it that as long as he doesn't admit it, he didn't do it. He has not lost face (dui lian). That, boys, in a nut shell, is the mentality we are dealing with here. And that is how we need to go about dealing with them. It's childish, to be sure, but there you go.

Would you agree with this Ludahai?

Now while I know I'm just a yuang guizi (foreign devil), and know a little about the zhongguo ren (Chinese), Ludahai is far and away the formost authority on the Chineseon this site. If you guys have half a brain, you will defer to him.

Tian bu pa, di bu pa. Jui pa yuang guizi shuo zhongguo hua.

<Billo sucks. He orders little Chinese boys online.>
 
ludahai said:
I don't think the original reference TOT made said she was a Chinese citizen. YOU read that. She is obviously Chinese (ethnicity and/or citizen!) I believe the original reference said she was a Chinese protester. If she is merely ethnic Chinese or Chinese-born, the adjective applies in either case.
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Yes I did read that. However to link that with her being a statistics then makes for her being only of Chinese nationalists.

ludahai said:
Freedom of the press. Perhaps you ChiCom loving anti-freedom types should note that the United States holds that dearly, even if you invite people from press outlets that are hostile to the person coming.
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and I thought you wouldn't result to such attacks anymore. Correction, normal everyday US citizens hold the 1st amendment very dearly. Bush inc does quite the opposite. This whole labeling of the media as the liberal media is nothing but :spin: to discredit medial reports.

ludahai said:
I have a book about Falungong that was published by Xinhua in 1996! It seemed ok with the Chinese authorities then! I know what it is, and there is absolutely no reason for the way they are being treated. Falungong isn't the only religious group treated in a barbaric manner. The Roman Catholics are also being persecuted, hounded and sent to laogai as well.
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True, however, China doesn't exactly have an establishment clause as does the US. China is also not a free society. Thus the argument is moot. Also Falun gong is highly political which is why Beijing started to have issue with the belief.
Your judgment of the PRC is that anything from it is bad. In fact your judgment of anything Chinese is that it's taboo, perhaps not so extreem however that is an opinion that you show.
This is not in anyway my endorsement of the PRC's actions. Just judgement without bias.
Have you seen the documentary "China Rises"? I strongly suggest anyone curious about China today to see this documentary. Does a terrific job of explaining everything in a highly objective view point.
 
teacher said:
No problem.
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No problem

teacher said:
Point of order. The Chinese leadership is a barbaric and loathsome thing. Those thousand old men suck.
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You mean hundred thousand.
teacher said:
A whole society based on the don't loose face concept.
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It's more than just that. The only pure don't loose face society is Japan. Oh wait, add N. Korea onto that.

teacher said:
A Chinese and a American are in a phone booth. The Chinese cuts one (feng pi). The American says "damn man, that's foul." The Chinese says "I didn't do anything." Now they both know damn well who cut one. But the Chinese goes about it that as long as he doesn't admit it, he didn't do it. He has not lost face (dui lian). That, boys, in a nut shell, is the mentality we are dealing with here. And that is how we need to go about dealing with them. It's childish, to be sure, but there you go.
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Not quite that simple.

teacher said:
Would you agree with this Ludahai?

Now while I know I'm just a yuang guizi (foreign devil), and know a little about the zhongguo ren (Chinese), Ludahai is far and away the formost authority on the Chineseon this site. If you guys have half a brain, you will defer to him.
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Hahahaha, hardly. He's merely ban` pin chu`. Half a bottle of vinegar. Sounds loud when shaken but is merely half full.

teacher said:
Tian bu pa, di bu pa. Jui pa yuang guizi shuo zhongguo hua.
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Wo dao xi wang` suo you yang ren dou hui` shuo guo yu.
 
Moderator's Warning:


Moved to appropriate forum after 48 hours.
 
jfuh said:
THis is no surprise to me, most falun gong members are all naturalized US citizens today. In fact, that's what membership in falun gong means, a quick pass to obtaining US citizenship.
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That's simply not true, a majority of Falun Gong practioners are being suppressed China, and millions of others are in other countries not in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_gong

70 million was a gov't estimate 1999, it has seen rapid growth in recent times, those who obtain citizenships are simply refugees escaping religious persecution, have you seen the photos of the tortured/killed? They are just as a abhorrent if not worse the pictures of Abu Ghraib.
 
There is no edit post option???? The word "religious" was an error.

Edit: I can edit this post but not the above.
 
Synch said:
That's simply not true, a majority of Falun Gong practioners are being suppressed China, and millions of others are in other countries not in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_gong

70 million was a gov't estimate 1999, it has seen rapid growth in recent times, those who obtain citizenships are simply refugees escaping religious persecution, have you seen the photos of the tortured/killed? They are just as a abhorrent if not worse the pictures of Abu Ghraib.
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Yes I've seen the photos, and I've always wondered. China is a totalitarian government that denies any torture or abuse of falun members, yet somehow these pictures were able to get out. Pretty strange, especially given the case of the standing PLA in the photos. Don't know too much but I hear photoshop crying here.
This is not in denial that there is torture, but statment that the pictures are worthless. The propaganda for falun is just as worthless as the propaganda against. All over superstition and control.
 
Quote by TOT

(**** the Chi-coms, communist nations default on the debts owed to the U.S. all the time I say it's time to return the favor, what are they going to do about it?)

Can you never get things right?

USSR later Russia repaid American loans as they also repaid World Bank Loans and the Paris club bank loans, all in their entirety, they were able to do this with the help of Pres. Bush invading Iraq and Afghanistan which raised the price of oil.

Russia is the worlds leading supplier of oil.
 
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jujuman13 said:
Quote by TOT

(**** the Chi-coms, communist nations default on the debts owed to the U.S. all the time I say it's time to return the favor, what are they going to do about it?)

Can you never get things right?

USSR later Russia repaid American loans as they also repaid World Bank Loans and the Paris club bank loans, all in their entirety, they were able to do this with the help of Pres. Bush invading Iraq and Afghanistan which raised the price of oil.

Russia is the worlds leading supplier of oil.
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Dude you don't know jack that was after the Soviets abandoned Communism they never paid the U.S. back under lend lease and they defaulted on U.S. loans after the Bolshevik revolution, the Chi-Coms are China and Mao defaulted on all Chinese loans from the U.S. when he went back on his word with the unity government and proceeded to start a civil war with the nationalists under Chiang Kai-Shek.
 
Not to mention that Saudi Arabia is the worlds top oil producer and exporter. I'm just sayin....
 
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