Scucca

Anybody catch the game? The Americans have gone full throttle backwards since I saw them last. Their lasses would have put on a better show.

For England I'd go with the following team (although admittedly I'm half cut on cheap plonk):

GK: Kirkland
LB: Cole
CB: King
CB: Terry
RB: Richards
LM: Cole
CM: Gerrard
CM: Barry
RM: Beckham
CF: Rooney
CF: Crouch

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Slainte

I'd love England to play that team

Seriously, Rio Ferdinand might be a general prick off the football pitch, but how anyone could contemplate leaving him out of the England side is well beyond me. He's the complete modern player and there's no team in the world he wouldn't start for.

Crouch shouldn't be in the England squad, very limited player, lacks agility, movement, pace and general footballing ability. Owen should start against lesser teams when England can afford to play 4 in midfield. Against the best teams I'd play a 4-3-3 style formation with Cole and Gerrard supporting.

This is probably the team I'd go for if I were English:

GK:Robinson
LB: A.Cole
RB: Brown
CB: Ferdinand
CB: Terry

CM: Hargreaves
CM: Lampard
CM: Carrick/Barry

LW: J.Cole
RW: Gerrard
CF: Rooney

Front three interchange at will though.

Of course Gerrard would probably end up wandering anywhere with no regards for the shape of the team like he always does, if he did that too much I'd put SWP on. Gerrard can't be trusted in a two man central midfield against world class opposition.

Edit - Oh and btw you Yanks were pretty poor, lots of passion and energy but you seemed to lack technique and confidence to pass the ball. Reminded me a bit of Scotland

I think you miss a player like Reyna who could put his foot on the ball and slow the game down a bit.

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Scucca

Just not as good a defender as a fit King

Nonsense. The only problem with him is that he headers sometimes like he is heading a cannon ball.

England do best with 442. If Owen returns to his previous form, he is obviously one of the best strikers in the world (as shown by his record)

Not good enough

Not good enough and certainly sub-standard compared to Richards

Not good enough

Not true! Gerrard suffers from footballer's rain, nothing more. He has been given multiple roles in single games and that has been too much for him.

Not good enough

Ludicrous comment

Slainte

You're talking about the most expensive defender in the world, a player who's won numerous titles and just captained his side to a Champions League victory. Ferdinands defensive records are soooo superior to King in practically every category you could imagine. King has never even played in the Champions League and has next to no experience at international level. Ferdinand is completely the opposite, and he is at his best at that level.

Quite simply there is no manager in the world football who would even consider King above Ferdinand.


Nope his problem is poor movement, poor agility and limited link-up ability (limited because of his poor movement and agility). He's not a prolific finisher and he's yet to impress at the highest level, hat-tricks against Jamaica and winners against Macedonia and Trinidad and Tobago don't win you World Cups. PLus when he is playing the team inevitably end-up punting it up to him and losing the ball all the time.

Against technically superior teams like Brazil, Portugal, Argentina etc when England play four in the middle the oppostion dominates possesion too easily. 4-4-2 is good against lesser sides who are happy to surrender you possesion in the middle of the park, but against the top sides you need numbers in there. It's the same with Scotland.

Wes Brown has excelled for Man Utd this season whereas Richards has suffered injuries and lack of form. Richards was also terrible vs Croatia and showed embarrisingly little composure on the ball (just like most other England players that night though). Richards might be one for the future, but if England were playing their best side tomorrow I'd have Brown in there.

Robinson is the best keeper you got, doesn't mean he is brilliant, just the best you got. Kirkland is unproven at a higher level and far too injury prone.

Frank Lampard while overrated by most in England is still a valuable player, he needs disciplined players behind him, and he isn't great at breaking up attacks, but his distribution and goal scoring should get him a place in the team. His movement has also improved dramatically in the past few years. He's realised he doesn't need to charge towards the penalty spot every time his team has the ball, now he actually contributes to the build up.


Tell Rafa that. Gerrard in a two man central midfield is recipe for disaster, he doesn't receive the ball well with his back to goal so never takes it off his defence, his first touch lets him down far too often and he goes headless chicken at least once every game.

You need players like Alonso or Mascherano behind him to get a hold of possesion and then bring Gerrard into the game higher up the pitch. Can you recall him playing in a two man central midfield for Liverpool in a big match? I can't.

Scucca

King's only drawback is his injury proneness. Other than that, he's superior.

You're blaming King for Spurs being bobbins? Harsh!

Have you been polling managers? If you haven't, stop talking bobbins

Nonsense. You sure you don't get your info from Championship Manager?

England dominate when they play at pace, with variation in short and long balls. Crouch fits the bill for that, given the flexibility he offers compared to one dimensional players like Defoe.

Nope. England bottle it against the likes of Brazil and do not impose their style. And, to be honest, Rooney has a habit of going deep too often so we often are restricted to 451

The worst performances I've seen have been England trying to play 433. You've watched Chelsea a couple of times too much.

Not really relevant. My dead gran would star for the sweaties

He has played because of injuries. He's a squad player, nothing more.

We have a shortage of class full backs, but when fit there is no-one better.

He didn't stand out. Bridge was the weak link that day.

Third choice at best.

Squad player, nothing more.

They have 2 world class players- the Spanish boy and Gerrard. His tactics reflect that. Barry and Gerrard would certainly make a great double act.

Slainte

Rio Ferdinand is twice the player Ledley King ever will be.

No defender in the world combines athleticism, technique and footballing intelligence quite like Rio. Ledley King is a decent Premiership defender, nothing noteworthy though and wouldn't improve any of the top 4, if he would, he wouldn't be playing for Spurs!

It's kinda how football works these days, if you're a good player you go to the top clubs, if you're average you play for a side like Tottenham.

Hell I'm not even sure how much Ramos fancies King, he might be a bit clumsy for a Spanish coach. Woodgate will probably be his forst choice, then there are quite a few contenders to partner him.

I've lost track of the number of times opposition managers have came out and said what an absolutely outstanding defender Ferdinand is. Top managers from all round Europe too, I'll dig up quotes if you like. Been in the PFA team of the year 3 times in the last 4 years, an almost cert for UEFA defender of the year this year. King simply isn't at that level, he's a good Premiership battler but not up to it at the highest level.

I'm sure. Since Benitez took over Liverpool he's realised it too, hence the signings of Kuyt, Voronin, Babel, Torres and probably a new striker in the summer, he's a limited player, doesn't score enough, loses the ball too often and doesn't contribute much in open play. A good player for the last 10 minutes, but not a starter at the highest level.


Against the most technically gifted teams England don't have the ability to dominate, especially if you're playing in hot weather, which in big tournaments you invariably are. The best option is to grind and play on the break, which England have a decent enough team for.

Try and play high tempo, press up the park and give away possesion right after you get it back and the better teams will play it right through you, like they always do.

When was the last time England beat a top team in a competitive match playing open football?


It's nothing to do with bottling it. It's because when you lose the ball against a top side they make you chase for 10 minutes to get it back. Then whan you do get it back it's normally deep inside your own half, so you punt it long to your strikers who are completely isolated and lose the ball again. British midfielders aren't comfortable enough taking it under pressure and our defenders aren't comfortable enough passing it under pressure, so we "play safe" and lose the ball too often. You can't impose your style on a team if you don't have the football!

Hardly any sides play with two orthodox strikers these days. You at least need someone in the "Bergkamp" role dropping off and giving you an extra man, otherwise you get overran.

You're getting way ahead of yourself, I'm not saying he's not a future England player, but right now he's too naive for International football, that was exposed vs Croatia. Wes Brown OTOH is vastly experienced at the highest level and certainly wouldn'y have been exposed the same way Richards was.

That's never going to happen. Barry is being bought to either replace or compete with Alonso, he'll be playing alongside Mascherano next season if he plays at all. Gerrard will play in front of them 4-2-3-1. The same way Benitez's Valencia side played. Also Liverpool have 3 top players, Mascherano is the new Makelele .

Scucca

On your Championship Manager game perhaps! Hopefully you've invested in a new version. I'd hate to think you have Freddy Adu as the new Pele.

You sure he isn't your boyfriend? Ferdinand is a good player, but is flawed as a defender. He hasn't got the aggression.

You think only the top 4 have world class players? Crikey! You'll be saying Duncan Fletcher is world class cos he plays for the Surrey club next.

You're obviously got too much time on your hands!

So, in conclusion, you haven't polled all managers. Thought so. Don't know why. Just seemed sort of bleedin obvious.

How much are they asking for him?

Sweaty logic! England's only hope is to play the Premiership way. They failed, particularly against Brazil, because they are psychological bottle jobs.

Too many times to mention. My favourite examples are the Holland and German demolitions.

More sweaty logic! It is only through tempo that England can win. Playing the continental way will always ensure elimination (given it does play to the player's strengths)

Nor did my team. Rooney, whilst he goes deep too often (particularly as he goes running off like a headless chicken), certainly isn't orthodox.

He's prone to mistake, but a good squad player given his flexibility.

With Barry, they have a change of making it 3 world class players. At the moment, the Spaniard is restricted by having too many so-so players.

Slainte

Intelligent response, I see your points far more clearly now.


Because he doesn't go around trying to break peoples legs? He gives as good as he gets and I've never seen him bullied.

He's not your "traditional" centre half, he's the modern player and he's an improvement on the old model. You go to ground as often as they used to and you'll either get sent off or left for dead. You've got to be calm and composed at the highest level and Ferdinand is.


Pretty much really. Maybe Berbatov, but only maybe and he's on his way out of Tottenham. Arteta is good, but not world class, Yakubu ditto. Owen was always overrated, plus he hasn't been on form for about 3 years now. Krancjar is decent, but below world class. Modric might be one next season...

Who do you think I'm missing?


Alright you find me one manager, player, coach, pundit etc who has ever said that Ledley King is Englands best defender, or in any other way hinted that he is better than Rio. Right now people are lining up to call Ferdinand the best defender in the world, of course a lot of that is hype because he's just capatained his side to CL victory, generally though in the footballing world people talk really highly about Ferdinand. People from all over the world too, people who you might not think of as fans of the Engish game. People just don't talk about King, he's an average player and done very little that's noteworthy.


What?

I never actually said they wanted to sell him, although that wouldn't surprise me. He's a decent impact player so they might keep him around for that. If he wanted to leave because he wasn't getting a game I'd say about 7 mill.

Ah right, it's not the lack of technique, kick and rush football which has failed you it's the lack of determination to do it properly.

The 5-1 in Germany was based exactly on a tight, counterattaking style. Erikkson realised that was the only way a technically limited side like England could play.

The game against Holland was 12 years ago!

It was done with home support against a Holland side in disarray. Venables didn't really play the most open style either.

The solution is to start produing more technically gifted players!!!!

That involves changing the whole youth set-up to make it less about being big, strong and fast, more about passing and controlling the ball.


Gareth Barry, world class?

Barry for Alonso would be a step down IMO. Mascherano remains Liverpools most important midfielder.

independent_thinker2002

Who are the Limeys and who are the Septics?

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Slainte

Septics are Americans

Limeys are English, or British I guess, but being used to describe England.

England played US at real football. England won. Poor game.

Gave me a chance to be really Pro-American though!