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2014 NBA Finals

Μολὼν λαβέ;1063417282 said:
Not the last 3 out of 4 years.



Not the last 3 out of 4 years.



Not the last 3 out of 4 years.



Not the last 3 out of 4 years.



Yes it was.

However, who made it to the Finals 4 years in a row. Who won 2 consecutive NBA championships during that run?

Hint: it wasn't the Spurs.

There's plenty of Heat haters out there but at least get your facts straight if you're one of them.
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"Not one, not two, not three, not four..."

That's right, LeBron. Spurs have five. :)
 
northwinds said:
The more diverse Spurs won with team passing against a bunch of 'me' players.......congrats SA!
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Apparently you didn't watch the series if you think the Heat's problem was being a bunch of "me" players.
 
Kobie said:
Apparently you didn't watch the series if you think the Heat's problem was being a bunch of "me" players.
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Wade never showed up. Bosh, Chalmers, Allen and the bench never really did either. And, James simply did not have enough to dominate, like Michael and Kobie have been known to do when the supporting cast can't show up.

Granted Jordan's Bulls and Bryant's Lakers probably lose too if the weight of this series were all on them, but not in 5, by 15 and 20-plus. In fact, heads would roll in the lockerroom. And, you know it.
 
calamity said:
Wade never showed up. Bosh, Chalmers, Allen and the bench never really did either. And, James simply did not have enough to dominate, like Michael and Kobie have been known to do when the supporting cast can't show up.

Granted Jordan's Bulls and Bryant's Lakers probably lose too if the weight of this series were all on them, but not by 15 and 20-plus.
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I'll agree with that assessment, although MJ and Kobe never won games when their supporting cast played as badly as the Heat's did. MJ and Kobe's crew rarely did, however, and never three finals games in a row.

I think Wade's problem was less that he "didn't show up" and more that his body is absolutely shot and he just physically can't compete at that level for that many minutes anymore.

Witness the Celtics beating the Lakers by 40 in Game 6 of the 2008 Finals. Bryant was invisible.
 
Kobie said:
I'll agree with that assessment, although MJ and Kobe never won games when their supporting cast played as badly as the Heat's did. MJ and Kobe's crew rarely did, however, and never three finals games in a row.

I think Wade's problem was less that he "didn't show up" and more that his body is absolutely shot and he just physically can't compete at that level for that many minutes anymore.

Witness the Celtics beating the Lakers by 40 in Game 6 of the 2008 Finals. Bryant was invisible.
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Yeah. Wade is in trouble physically. What's bad is that without his slash and dash game, he has nothing. He needs to develop a jump shot and passing game.

Kobe had knee issues on '08. Like Jordan when he played with Washington, his best years were behind him. Him pulling LA to victory for those last two titles in 09 and 10 was probably the most amazing feat I've witnessed in a long time. How he did it is beyond my understanding. Of course Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Fisher and the bench stepped up more than the Heat supporting cast.
 
calamity said:
Yeah. Wade is in trouble physically. What's bad is that without his slash and dash game, he has nothing. He needs to develop a jump shot and passing game.

Kobe had knee issues on '08. Like Jordan when he played with Washington, his best years were behind him. Him pulling LA to victory for those last two titles in 09 and 10 was probably the most amazing feat I've witnessed in a long time. How he did it is beyond my understanding. Of course Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Fisher and the bench stepped up more than the Heat supporting cast.
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If Kobe had knee issues in 2008, they obviously weren't too severe since he didn't miss a single game, averaged 28.3 points per game that season and finished second in the league (to LeBron) in scoring.
 
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Kobie said:
Apparently you didn't watch the series if you think the Heat's problem was being a bunch of "me" players.
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Apparently you are the only one that didn't notice the Spurs incredible team passing versus the clear it out for Lebron strategy of the Heat......
 
northwinds said:
Apparently you are the only one that didn't notice the Spurs incredible team passing versus the clear it out for Lebron strategy of the Heat......
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Of course the Spurs passed unbelievably; that wasn't my point.

"Clear it out for Lebron" was the Heat's strategy because that is quite literally all they could do. It had nothing to do with being "me" players and everything to do with pragmatism. The Heat's biggest issue is that Lebron is both their best scorer AND best distributor.
 
This vid-bit on Wade here is pretty devastating.



He's either seriously hurt or grossly out of shape.
 
Kobie said:
Of course the Spurs passed unbelievably; that wasn't my point.

"Clear it out for Lebron" was the Heat's strategy because that is quite literally all they could do. It had nothing to do with being "me" players and everything to do with pragmatism. The Heat's biggest issue is that Lebron is both their best scorer AND best distributor.
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Thing is...the King wasn't on his best game either this series.
In the last three games of the 2014 NBA Finals, Kawhi went head-to-head against the world’s best basketball player AND OUTFREAKINGPLAYED HIM. He even earned a nickname that hasn’t caught on yet: “Kingslayer.”

...Was LeBron a little worn out from four straight Finals seasons, the Olympics, an absolutely insane workload and the day-to-day pressure of carrying a team that had quietly turned into the 2010 Cavs? Absolutely. But Kawhi can always brag about going toe-to-toe with LeBron — in his prime, in the Finals — and being better than him for three straight games.
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BTW, the rest of what's written in this article makes for a pretty good read too.

24 Lingering Questions From the NBA Finals «
 
Kobie said:
Of course the Spurs passed unbelievably; that wasn't my point.

"Clear it out for Lebron" was the Heat's strategy because that is quite literally all they could do. It had nothing to do with being "me" players and everything to do with pragmatism. The Heat's biggest issue is that Lebron is both their best scorer AND best distributor.
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and probably their best defender.
 
Kobie said:
Of course the Spurs passed unbelievably; that wasn't my point.

"Clear it out for Lebron" was the Heat's strategy because that is quite literally all they could do. It had nothing to do with being "me" players and everything to do with pragmatism. The Heat's biggest issue is that Lebron is both their best scorer AND best distributor.
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I think the Heat's biggest problem is there just isn't a "Big 3" anymore.

Bosh and Wade are closer to being roll players at this point in their careers. No team would trade to build a team around either guy.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1063428913 said:
and probably their best defender.
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And a home-grown local OHIO guy who made good by working hard! :thumbs: And a truly nice guy who helps the poor kids in our area at least once a year by throwing a big party for them and by buying them all new bikes and other things their parents can't afford! We love him for his big heart, since he remembers going without as a child! :yes:

Greetings, Mo. :2wave:
 
polgara said:
And a home-grown local OHIO guy who made good by working hard! :thumbs: And a truly nice guy who helps the poor kids in our area at least once a year by throwing a big party for them and by buying them all new bikes and other things their parents can't afford! We love him for his big heart, since he remembers going without as a child! :yes:

Greetings, Mo. :2wave:
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Thanks for pointing that out. I was unaware of LJ's benevolence. Hopefully this will help some of his detractors see him a bit differently.

Greetings, Miss P. :2wave:
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1063428913 said:
and probably their best defender.
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That's why the guy he was guarding won Finals MVP :roll:


The Heat benefited from a weak Eastern Conference. But, I also think it lulled them to sleep. LeBron believed his own press clippings. King? Yeah. Right. You'd think seeing the kid in OKC win the league MVP would have woke his ass up. No way Leonard should have lit him up for 20-plus every game. Should not Kuai have been too tired from guarding "The King" to score points on the other end? Seriously.

King my ass. LeBron isn't even the best in the league---Duncan is, and Kobe was. James as top ten all time? Hell, in my book, it's debatable on whether or not he's even an all time top-five forward. Dr J, Duncan, Bird (when healthy), Garnett, Barkley, Malone, Worthy...all of them give James a run for his money. On the power side, a young Garnett eats his lunch. On the small, finesse stage, Dr J and Larry were far better, all the way.

Best all time: Jordan, Johnson, Russell--top three, hands down--Oscar, Kareem, Bird, Wilt---now it gets grey--Kobe, Duncan, Dr J, Barkley Worthy...all are a toss up for the final three spots. James sits somewhere above Pippen but below John Havlicek.
 
calamity said:
That's why the guy he was guarding won Finals MVP :roll:


The Heat benefited from a weak Eastern Conference. But, I also think it lulled them to sleep. LeBron believed his own press clippings. King? Yeah. Right. You'd think seeing the kid in OKC win the league MVP would have woke his ass up. No way Leonard should have lit him up for 20-plus every game. Should not Kuai have been too tired from guarding "The King" to score points on the other end? Seriously.

King my ass. LeBron isn't even the best in the league---Duncan is, and Kobe was. James as top ten all time? Hell, in my book, it's debatable on whether or not he's even an all time top-five forward. Dr J, Duncan, Bird (when healthy), Garnett, Barkley, Malone, Worthy...all of them give James a run for his money. On the power side, a young Garnett eats his lunch. On the small, finesse stage, Dr J and Larry were far better, all the way.

Best all time: Jordan, Johnson, Russell--top three, hands down--Oscar, Kareem, Bird, Wilt---now it gets grey--Kobe, Duncan, Dr J, Barkley Worthy...all are a toss up for the final three spots. James sits somewhere above Pippen but below John Havlicek.
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He wasn't finals MVP when LJ was guarding him. Its obvious you're a hater, and it seems to consume you. Oh, well... :popcorn2:
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1063429069 said:
1. He wasn't finals MVP when LJ was guarding him. 2. Its obvious you're a hater, and it seems to consume you. Oh, well... :popcorn2:
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2. Not a hater, I'm just not easily swayed by hype.

1. Uh... Kawhi won MVP because he outplayed his man, the self-proclaimed King.

btw: here's a good article which cuts James some slack while pointing fingers at Riley, Spoestra and the disappearance of Wade, Bosh and the rest of the Heat.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11108354/jason-whitlock-lebron-james-do
 
calamity said:
That's why the guy he was guarding won Finals MVP :roll:


The Heat benefited from a weak Eastern Conference. But, I also think it lulled them to sleep. LeBron believed his own press clippings. King? Yeah. Right. You'd think seeing the kid in OKC win the league MVP would have woke his ass up. No way Leonard should have lit him up for 20-plus every game. Should not Kuai have been too tired from guarding "The King" to score points on the other end? Seriously.

King my ass. LeBron isn't even the best in the league---Duncan is, and Kobe was. James as top ten all time? Hell, in my book, it's debatable on whether or not he's even an all time top-five forward. Dr J, Duncan, Bird (when healthy), Garnett, Barkley, Malone, Worthy...all of them give James a run for his money. On the power side, a young Garnett eats his lunch. On the small, finesse stage, Dr J and Larry were far better, all the way.

Best all time: Jordan, Johnson, Russell--top three, hands down--Oscar, Kareem, Bird, Wilt---now it gets grey--Kobe, Duncan, Dr J, Barkley Worthy...all are a toss up for the final three spots. James sits somewhere above Pippen but below John Havlicek.
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Duncan the best in the league right now? Nonsense.
 
Kobie said:
Duncan the best in the league right now? Nonsense.
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Jordan: 6 titles; 6 attempts--retired
Duncan: 5 titles, 6 attempts--playing strong after 17 seasons
Kobe: 5 titles, 7 attempts--probably done after two season ending injuries
James: 2 titles, 5 attempts--clearly in his prime
 
calamity said:
Jordan: 6 titles; 6 attempts--retired
Duncan: 5 titles, 6 attempts--playing strong after 17 seasons
Kobe: 5 titles, 7 attempts--probably done after two season ending injuries
James: 2 titles, 5 attempts--clearly in his prime
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That doesn't make him the best player in the league right now.
 
Kobie said:
That doesn't make him the best player in the league right now.
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Best active player on the all time list is Duncan. Obviously a guy approaching 40 isn't the best current athlete. That's James hands down...even with a crappy coach and diminishing supporting cast.

Best players today: James, Durant, Griffin (Paul if he was 100%), Curry, Anthony, Harden, Love, Howard, George...I don;t think you even get to a Spur until maybe number 20 or 21 on the list. But...that's not what I was talking about.

All time greats. James isn't there yet. Duncan is.
 
calamity said:
2. Not a hater, I'm just not easily swayed by hype.

1. Uh... Kawhi won MVP because he outplayed his man, the self-proclaimed King.

btw: here's a good article which cuts James some slack while pointing fingers at Riley, Spoestra and the disappearance of Wade, Bosh and the rest of the Heat.

Jason Whitlock on what LeBron James should do - ESPN
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The Heat are built around James, Wade, and Bosh. Add Ray Allen to the mix as a roll player and there's a good team for a few seasons. That's past and I think they're done. Wade and Bosh aren't all stars any longer. Too old and with Wade there's the leg injury. I love Ray Allen but I bet he retires, and he should go out on top, so to speak.

I think their offense is built around running down the court more than a ball movement offense. I look at the Heat on offense and players are mostly standing around with someone, mostly Wade or James playing 1 on 1, which turns out to be 1 on 2 basketball. There are few times they find an open player to pass to and there is also inconsistent ball movement. Then when a shot goes up the rest of the team except Birdman or Udonis Haslem concede the rebound.

I think they need an offense as well, but not at the expense of playing defense, no matter what Jason Whitlock wrote. This article is the reality the Heat face.

If Wade opts out of his contract and either leaves Miami or negotiates a lower salary to stay, it is very likely that James and Bosh will remain in Miami, the Heat will lure in another big-time free agent such as Carmelo Anthony and the squad will once again be the team to beat heading into the 2014-15 NBA season.

However, if Wade decides to exercise his option and collect $41 million over the next two years, the Big Three will more than likely crumble like a house of cards, along with the entire Miami Heat organization.
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Dwyane Wade's Decision Will Determine the Future of LeBron James and Miami Heat | Bleacher Report
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1063430350 said:
The Heat are built around James, Wade, and Bosh. Add Ray Allen to the mix as a roll player and there's a good team for a few seasons. That's past and I think they're done. Wade and Bosh aren't all stars any longer. Too old and with Wade there's the leg injury. I love Ray Allen but I bet he retires, and he should go out on top, so to speak.

I think their offense is built around running down the court more than a ball movement offense. I look at the Heat on offense and players are mostly standing around with someone, mostly Wade or James playing 1 on 1, which turns out to be 1 on 2 basketball. There are few times they find an open player to pass to and there is also inconsistent ball movement. Then when a shot goes up the rest of the team except Birdman or Udonis Haslem concede the rebound.

I think they need an offense as well, but not at the expense of playing defense, no matter what Jason Whitlock wrote. This article is the reality the Heat face.



Dwyane Wade's Decision Will Determine the Future of LeBron James and Miami Heat | Bleacher Report
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I agree that Wade holds the key. I also think Lebron needs a well designed offense, and Spoelstra doesn't bring that to the table.

Did you see who Cleveland hired?
David Blatt is new coach of Cleveland Cavaliers - ESPN

If I'm James, I'm looking at the Calvs in a whole new light today. He'll be unstoppable in an offense like Blatt's.
 
calamity said:
I agree that Wade holds the key. I also think Lebron needs a well designed offense, and Spoelstra doesn't bring that to the table.

Did you see who Cleveland hired?
David Blatt is new coach of Cleveland Cavaliers - ESPN

If I'm James, I'm looking at the Calvs in a whole new light today. He'll be unstoppable in an offense like Blatt's.
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I'm sure he would hate it. ;)

Blatt typically runs the Princeton-style offense with his teams.
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David Blatt is new coach of Cleveland Cavaliers - ESPN
 
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