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Mother hears son's heart beat inside 4-year-old girl's chest

Beaudreaux

Beaudreaux

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Okay, this one pulled on my heart strings:

Mother hears son's heart beat inside 4-year-old girl's chest - CBS News

A hesitant Heather Clark placed a cold stethoscope on 4-year-old Jordan Drake's chest and waited patiently for a heartbeat.

With one hand covering her mouth, the mother leaned back and began sobbing.

"That's your baby," Drake's mom, Esther Gonzalez whispered, as the California mom listened to a consistent thump.

On Friday, Clark heard the heartbeat of her late son Lukas -- for the first time in years.

It was "the happiest day of her life since her son was born," Donate Life Arizona Media Relations Coordinator Jacqueline Keidel told CBS News.

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When Clark's son died suddenly in June 2013 at 7 months old, she agreed to donate his organs -- a decision that saved three lives, including Drake's.

"I knew if Lukas could prevent another family from experiencing the loss that I felt, that's what I needed to do," Clark said.

...
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Crying.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Okay, this one pulled on my heart strings:
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What exactly does a heart transplant do to the "donor"?

Keep in mind, that if a person is really dead (as in there body isn't functioning), their heart can't be donated.
 
Not crying. Just a little something stuck in my eye.

-edit-

Geez!!! That little girl is just precious. So innocent and unaware.

And some people don't believe in miracles....
 
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Paleocon said:
What exactly does a heart transplant do to the "donor"?

Keep in mind, that if a person is really dead (as in there body isn't functioning), their heart can't be donated.
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I'm sure the heart can be preserved, perhaps by being artificially pumped or something? Chill man, its a great story.
 
Paleocon said:
What exactly does a heart transplant do to the "donor"?
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Nothing. The donor is dead.

Paleocon said:
Keep in mind, that if a person is really dead (as in there body isn't functioning), their heart can't be donated.
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No. Both donation after brain death (DBD) and donation after cardiac death (DCD) can and have been performed. Nowadays it's almost always the former.
 
Luftwaffe said:
I'm sure the heart can be preserved, perhaps by being artificially pumped or something? Chill man, its a great story.
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They generally put it on ice, although there are other methods.

The point was that they don't remove hearts unless they're still beating.

the_recruit said:
Nothing. The donor is dead.

No. Both donation after brain death (DBD) and donation after cardiac death (DCD) can and have been performed. Nowadays it's almost always the former.
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A person with a beating heart is hardly dead. And if the heart can be restarted then cardiac death hasn't really occurred either, has it?
 
I can't say I approve of organ donation for children. Parental rights should not include donating the organs of your children. Parental rights should focus on the care of the child, not the wants of the parents.
 
Paleocon said:
What exactly does a heart transplant do to the "donor"?

Keep in mind, that if a person is really dead (as in there body isn't functioning), their heart can't be donated.
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Brain death is death. You do not believe that. Cool. You have a lot of beliefs...the law does not agree with you.
 
year2late said:
Brain death is death. You do not believe that. Cool. You have a lot of beliefs...the law does not agree with you.
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'Snowball often won over the majority by his brilliant speeches, but Napoleon was better at canvassing support for himself in between times. He was especially successful with the sheep. Of late the sheep had taken to bleating "Four legs good, two legs bad" both in and out of season, and they often interrupted the Meeting with this. It was noticed that they were especially liable to break into "Four legs good, two legs bad" at crucial moments in Snowball's speeches.'
-George Orwell, Animal Farm
 
Paleocon said:
There are ones who don't, and the brain death standard was advocated specifically to allow heart transplants.

But that's all quite irrelevant. That many people use an obviously stretched definition of dead doesn't make it any less stretched.
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Actually, critical care medicine and life support had a hand in it first and foremost. Life support machines gave rise to patients with irreversible lack of brain function but were "alive" based on a heart beat.

Tell me this, how would you handle the situation.Ever increasing numbers of brain dead people on ventilators? House them somewhere? Keep them in intensive care units only to occupy bedspace for those who can actually survive their maladies?

Do you think ICU/hospital bedspace and reimbursement for such is infinite?

But yeah, make it about donation first and foremost.

I ask you this. If the next of kin or DPOA refuses organ donation, it the body kept on life support indefinitely...until cessation of heart beat?
 
year2late said:
Actually, critical care medicine and life support had a hand in it first and foremost. Life support machines gave rise to patients with irreversible lack of brain function but were "alive" based on a heart beat.
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Exactly. And people wanted to be able to take organs from these brain dead patients.

Tell me this, how would you handle the situation.Ever increasing numbers of brain dead people on ventilators? House them somewhere? Keep them in intensive care units only to occupy bedspace for those who can actually survive their maladies?

Do you think ICU/hospital bedspace and reimbursement for such is infinite?
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What on Earth are you talking about? There won't be an ever-increasing number of hospital patients because we aren't immortal. Humans die even on ventilators.
But yeah, make it about donation first and foremost.

I ask you this. If the next of kin or DPOA refuses organ donation, it the body kept on life support indefinitely...until cessation of heart beat?
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In that situation, I'd probably agree to remove the ventilator. But removing a ventilator machine is not at all the same as cutting someone's heart out.
the_recruit said:
Oh stop it. Overwhelming expert consensus is absolutely relevant.
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To establishing specific facts. What specific physical fact are you disagreeing about?
 
Paleocon said:
Exactly. And people wanted to be able to take organs from these brain dead patients.

What on Earth are you talking about? There won't be an ever-increasing number of hospital patients because we aren't immortal. Humans die even on ventilators.
But yeah, make it about donation first and foremost.

In that situation, I'd probably agree to remove the ventilator. But removing a ventilator machine is not at all the same as cutting someone's heart out.

To establishing specific facts. What specific physical fact are you disagreeing about?
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Are you advocating watching two children die instead of one?
 
CycloneWanderer said:
Are you advocating watching two children die instead of one?
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I'm advocating that doctors first and foremost refrain from directly killing anyone.

"First do no harm"
 
Beaudreaux said:
...
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Honestly - I thought it was creepy. she's now attached to the girl and tagging along in the girl's life through some sense that her son is figuratively alive?

It's . . . unsettling - like she's clinging to his memory through the girl rather than moving on and letting go. That girl is not her son - and she shouldn't be encouraged to live vicariously through her as if he's still alive.

On Friday, Clark heard the heartbeat of her late son Lukas -- for the first time in years.

It was "the happiest day of her life since her son was born," Donate Life Arizona Media Relations Coordinator Jacqueline Keidel told CBS News.

...

Right now, Drake is too young to realize the important role Clark plays in her life, but she'll understand one day.

Until then, Clark will continue making plans to attend her high school graduation, wedding and every other major milestone in her life.
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Paleocon said:
Exactly. And people wanted to be able to take organs from these brain dead patients.



What on Earth are you talking about? There won't be an ever-increasing number of hospital patients because we aren't immortal. Humans die even on ventilators.
But yeah, make it about donation first and foremost.



In that situation, I'd probably agree to remove the ventilator. But removing a ventilator machine is not at all the same as cutting someone's heart out.


To establishing specific facts. What specific physical fact are you disagreeing about?
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Paleocon, the brain dead on life support came first. An opportunity to save lives came up with the opportunity to harvest organs before removing life support that was going to be removed anyway.

You make it sound like the desire for transplantation came first. Just to make sure, you realize that the movie "Coma" was a work of fiction and not a documentary, right?

What do you mean "humans even die on ventilators" Of course they do. All the time. They can die of cardiac death or brain death.It is weird you would even make that statement. It sounds like you had a personal "a-ha" moment that actually never was, except in your own mind.
 
Paleocon said:
I'm advocating that doctors first and foremost refrain from directly killing anyone.

"First do no harm"
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You cannot kill someone that is already dead.

First you want to execute people who even possess a condom now you want to keep dead people alive. Your version of "pro-life" is rather FITH.
 
Paleocon said:
There are ones who don't, and the brain death standard was advocated specifically to allow heart transplants.

But that's all quite irrelevant. That many people use an obviously stretched definition of dead doesn't make it any less stretched.
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You ARE your brain. The rest of your body is just the thing you use to get around in this world and fuel your brain with energy. When your brain ceases to function, you are gone. I can keep your heart pumping with a machine all I want. It might keep many of the cells in your body alive, but YOU are dead.
 
Paleocon said:
I'm advocating that doctors first and foremost refrain from directly killing anyone.

"First do no harm"
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Not part of the modern Hippocratic oath. Surgeons wouldn't be able to operate with a literal "do no harm" philosophy.
 
BrewerBob said:
You ARE your brain. The rest of your body is just the thing you use to get around in this world and fuel your brain with energy. When your brain ceases to function, you are gone. I can keep your heart pumping with a machine all I want. It might keep many of the cells in your body alive, but YOU are dead.
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Your body is you, not just your brain.
 
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