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1800+ casulties? Try 9000!

Billo_Really said:
Although I disagree with your conclusions, your opinions are always welcome.
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Then you just disagreed with your own thread...and your first response to the people who posted on that thread...

Ladies and Gentleman....THEE biggest lie of all-time on this forum...proved over and over again for your eyes to see...

Billo_Really said:
Normally I would do that. But since there are so many people that are too ***** to admit when there wrong, I thought I would show them that its no big deal to announce to the world that I was wrong. Even though I really wasn't. Technically it was a matter of the source I was using admitted to having flaws in how it gathered information. So I was just giving everyone an update. We still do not know how many deaths we have caused. But whether it is 25,000 or 100,000, its still bad.

There is far too many people posting and defending bad or irrelevant information to the very end. I just can't do that.
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http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=2442
 
Billo_Really said:
If this is logic, can you state this in the format of a "catagorical proposition" or by using "venn diagrams?"
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Venn diagrams really wouldn't apply here. We're not trying to compare the characteristics of anything.

Categorical proposition, no. It's late, I'm tired. Maybe tomorrow when I have nothing to do. In the meantime, howbout you do your own categorical propostion on how it would be logically possible.
 
Originally posted by cnredd:
Then you just disagreed with your own thread...and your first response to the people who posted on that thread...

Ladies and Gentleman....THEE biggest lie of all-time on this forum...proved over and over again for your eyes to see...
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No. I disagreed with YOUR interpretation of what I said!
 
Originally posted by Kelzie:
Venn diagrams really wouldn't apply here. We're not trying to compare the characteristics of anything.

Categorical proposition, no. It's late, I'm tired. Maybe tomorrow when I have nothing to do. In the meantime, howbout you do your own categorical propostion on how it would be logically possible.
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158,000 of them in combat prone areas with an employer having trouble getting them enough body armour.
 
Billo_Really said:
158,000 of them in combat prone areas with an employer having trouble getting them enough body armour.
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I hope that wasn't your example of categorical propositions.
 
Originally posted by Kelzie:
I hope that wasn't your example of categorical propositions.
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No it was not.

But since you insist...

Many soldiers die in wars.
American soldiers are in a war in Iraq.
Therefore, many American soldiers will die in Iraq.
 
Re:

1800+ casulties? Try 9000!
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Thats a negative. Well at least now its not 9000. But tomorrow is another day. If its 9000already I would like to see links to this claim?
 
Re:

Thats 1800+ casulties? Try 9000!
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Well, an extra 7200 deaths seems too high to me but I wouldn’t bet against it being well above 1800. Time will tell. How long does it take for the news of a soldier’s death to travel home? Many relatives may still be unaware of the death of their loved ones – is this a possibility? (prob not over 7k though!)

Perhaps someone with military experience is in a better position to confirm/deny.
 
Originally posted by SKILMATIC:
Thats a negative. Well at least now its not 9000. But tomorrow is another day. If its 9000already I would like to see links to this claim?
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Thanks for wanting more information before you render a verdict.
[Excerpts from the] The Harring Report: The Pentagon Follies
I have a copy of the official DoD Army/Iraq casualty list. I am alphabetizing it with the reported date of death following. TBR will post this list and when this is circulated widely by veteran groups and other concerned sites, if people who do not see their loved one’s names, are requested to inform their Congressman, their local paper, us and other concerned people as soon as possible.

The government gets away with these huge lies because they claim, falsely, that only soldiers actually killed on the ground in Iraq are reported. The dying and critically wounded are listed as en route to military hospitals outside of the country and not reported on the daily postings. Anyone who dies just as the transport takes off from the Baghdad airport is not listed and neither are those who die in the US military hospitals. Their families are certainly notified that their son, husband, brother or lover was dead and the bodies, or what is left of them (refrigeration is very bad in Iraq what with constant power outages) are shipped home, to Dover AFB. This, we note, was the overall policy until very recently. Since it became well known that many had died at Landstuhl, in Germany, the DoD began to list a very few soldiers who had died at other non-theater locations. These numbers are only for show and are pathetically small in relationship to the actual figures (which we are now publishing.) You ought to realize that President Bush personally ordered that no pictures be taken of the coffined and flag-draped dead under any circumstances. He claims that this is to comfort the bereaved relatives but is designed to keep the huge number of arriving bodies secret. Any civilian, or military personnel, taking pictures will be jailed at once and prosecuted. Bush has never attended any kind of a memorial service for his dead soldiers and never will. He is terrified some parent might curse him in front of the press or, worse, attack him. As Bush is a coward and in denial, this is not a surprise.

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1709.htm
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As I stated on another thread a long time ago, I am not looking for agreement. Just a mutual understanding of each others' points of view. Its unfortunate that some (not you specifically), have problems with this.
 
Billo_Really said:
No it was not.

But since you insist...

Many soldiers die in wars.
American soldiers are in a war in Iraq.
Therefore, many American soldiers will die in Iraq.
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That offers no logical proof that the number is 9000. Many, to me, means anything over two. So it could just as easily be three soldiers who have died. Now, here's mine:

Soldiers have family and loved ones (assuming for the sake of argument, roughly 10 per soldier, so 70,000 for the 7,000 missing soldiers).

Family and loved ones inquire when a soldier is missing.

Therefore, 70,000 people should be looking for their missing soldier.

Do you see that happening? Do you think the media would not report it if it did happen?
 
UGHH This was on the Newsgroups too. Di you post it there as well? There is no way that there is 7200 Soldiers hidden in caskets or some nonesence.

Nobody could possibly hide that amount from the public.
 
This was your post, cnredd, a few posts ago. Here you are trying to throw in my face, my own words, in regards to a post I made on another thread, in which I was attempting to be fair and balanced in the information and sources I use. If I used a source that said one thing, and then, at a later date, I discovered information to the contrary, I felt it was my duty to report that too. However, for what ever reason, you do not see this.
Originally Posted by Billo_Really
Well we certainly haven't noticed the possible 100,000 Iraqis that have died!
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Originally Posted by cnredd:
In the interests of, not only the truth, but to show the world how you debate, I will now show you YOUR OWN THREAD from less than two months ago....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billo_Really:
In the interest of being fair and balanced,I recently came across this article regarding the number of Iraqi civilian dead since the US invasion. As I stated in previous posts, the number was in upwards of 100,000 Iraqi deaths.This was based on a Johns Hopkins report that its authors are now indicating that the method of collecting the data was somewhat flawed.

The Report:
"25,000 civilians killed since Iraq invasion, says report Simon Jeffery Tuesday July 19, 2005 Guardian Unlimited
The number of Iraqi civilians who met violent deaths in the two years after the US-led invasion was today put at 24,865 by an independent research team.
The figures, compiled from Iraqi and international media reports, found US and coalition military forces were responsible for 37% of the deaths, with anti-occupation forces and insurgents responsible for 9%. A further 36% were blamed on criminal violence."
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Originally Posted by cnredd:
This [the report above] is located in the thread "Billo Off by 75,000 Deaths!"...which was authored by?...You guessed it...Billo Really

It is beyond hope for you to be a positive aspect of this forum when you get found out about a false report, ADMIT IT, and then use the same facts at a later date...You are a shame and a disgrace to all...
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I will never be ashamed of being as open and honest as I possibly can be. I look at every post objectively. I give the poster, the benefit of the doubt, if I do not disagree or know what they are proposing is false. This I can say, catagorically, is something you have never given me. And I challenge you to find one, and post it!

Until then, I guess you will continue to be bent on taking honest reactions and twisting them into different meanings as a result of your own personal predjudices.

This is an observation, not an attack. So, please correct me, if I am wrong.
Originally Posted by Billo_Really
Although I disagree with your conclusions, your opinions are always welcome.
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Originally Posted by cnredd:
Then you just disagreed with your own thread...and your first response to the people who posted on that thread...

Ladies and Gentleman....THEE biggest lie of all-time on this forum...proved over and over again for your eyes to see...
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It is apparant to me that you do not read the post you are quoting from. Where's the lie in saying a particular source was flawed in its investigation of the issue? And why is that my fault after the fact? And why are you trying to "...prove... over and over again that THEE biggest lie of all-time..." is trying to be as honest as I can when responding to serious posts (while keeping in mind I try to make it obvious I'm being facetious on the not so serious ones). And also keeping in mind, I am only human, and prone to mistakes. The difference being, I tend to admit mine more readily. And do not think it is the end of the world when I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billo_Really
Normally I would do that. But since there are so many people that are too ***** to admit when there wrong, I thought I would show them that its no big deal to announce to the world that I was wrong. Even though I really wasn't. Technically it was a matter of the source I was using admitted to having flaws in how it gathered information. So I was just giving everyone an update. We still do not know how many deaths we have caused. But whether it is 25,000 or 100,000, its still bad.

There is far too many people posting and defending bad or irrelevant information to the very end. I just can't do that.
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In all your almost 2000 posts, are there any that have been an admitted apology by you that wasn't laden with back-handed sarcasm? Has there been any of my almost 1200 posts, that you have not objected too?
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by Kelzie:
That offers no logical proof that the number is 9000. Many, to me, means anything over two. So it could just as easily be three soldiers who have died. Now, here's mine:

Soldiers have family and loved ones (assuming for the sake of argument, roughly 10 per soldier, so 70,000 for the 7,000 missing soldiers).

Family and loved ones inquire when a soldier is missing.

Therefore, 70,000 people should be looking for their missing soldier.

Do you see that happening? Do you think the media would not report it if it did happen?
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I was just giving an example, albeit not a very good one, of a catagorical proposition. I wasn't trying to justify 9000 dead. I won't do that even if it is true. The thought of 9000 dead makes me sick.

Why do you point to a media that is so blatently biased to report the truth? Do you think this would be reported by the "Beltway Boys?" How much of the media do you see report from the "World Tribunal on Iraq?" How much of that was in the news? What degree of lip service did they give DSM?
 
Originally posted by nefarious_plot:
UGHH This was on the Newsgroups too. Di you post it there as well? There is no way that there is 7200 Soldiers hidden in caskets or some nonesence.

Nobody could possibly hide that amount from the public.
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And this is based on what...?
 
Based simple logic. Like said before The amount of people effected by the death of one person is substaintial. They idea that family, freinds, and fellow unit members could not know of the death or would not raise holy hell if there comrade, loved one, etc was just hidden in a corner and shoveled dirt on quietly is just not all plausible. there was around 100 some deaths on the U.S.S Liberty, the goverment attemtped to quiet the burials of these men and hide them away and over 30 years later nobody has heard they end of it.
 
Originally posted by nefarious_plot:
Based simple logic. Like said before The amount of people effected by the death of one person is substaintial. They idea that family, freinds, and fellow unit members could not know of the death or would not raise holy hell if there comrade, loved one, etc was just hidden in a corner and shoveled dirt on quietly is just not all plausible. there was around 100 some deaths on the U.S.S Liberty, the goverment attemtped to quiet the burials of these men and hide them away and over 30 years later nobody has heard they end of it.
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Based on simple logic you don't think out of 158,000 troops without complete body amour in a combat zone cannot have this many casualties?

Keep in mind the source I posted, indicates there is an actual DoD list that verify's this, and will be posted soon.
 
The "body armour" wont stop a BB its not the bulklet proof vests in Cop shows. Its minimial protection at best. Cassulties rate is not all KIA's wounded and missing to.

the number of men in comabt is at least 1/10th that of total soldiers commited.
 
Originally posted by nefarious_plot:
The "body armour" wont stop a BB its not the bulklet proof vests in Cop shows. Its minimial protection at best.
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Yet you go on to say...

Originally posted by nefarious_plot:
Cassulties rate is not all KIA's wounded and missing to.

the number of men in comabt is at least 1/10th that of total soldiers commited
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And you know this how?
 
4 years Army. it takes many men to support a unit. Fuel, Food, ammuntion. Technical support in the form of radio repair, vehicle reapir. radar repair and countless others then there is logistics.
 
Originally posted by nefarious_plot:
4 years Army. it takes many men to support a unit. Fuel, Food, ammuntion. Technical support in the form of radio repair, vehicle reapir. radar repair and countless others then there is logistics.
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I respect your experience and will admit, without agreeing to your premise, that you are more knowledgeable than I on this subject.
 
This thing is a horrid and unnessecary war. I have never known or heard of a politican that was'nt a corrupt, filthy liar. But this Admin beats all.


But with the case of much of the people whom blame Clinton for all this. hiding 7200 dead men from the country is giving that little monkey to much credit.
 
Billo_Really said:
I was just giving an example, albeit not a very good one, of a catagorical proposition. I wasn't trying to justify 9000 dead. I won't do that even if it is true. The thought of 9000 dead makes me sick.

Why do you point to a media that is so blatently biased to report the truth? Do you think this would be reported by the "Beltway Boys?" How much of the media do you see report from the "World Tribunal on Iraq?" How much of that was in the news? What degree of lip service did they give DSM?
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The media has a bias. Everyone knows that, whatever way you think the bias runs. It is almost impossible to analyze a situation and report on it objectively. With that said. News sells. The US government covering up 7,000 deaths would be splashed on the front page of every news paper for weeks if there was even a hint that it was true.

And I also find it odd, in addition to cnredd, that you would admit that a number is wrong, and than latter say that the number is possible to back up an argument. How can it be both?
 
Originally posted by nefarious_plot:
This thing is a horrid and unnessecary war. I have never known or heard of a politican that was'nt a corrupt, filthy liar. But this Admin beats all.


But with the case of much of the people whom blame Clinton for all this. hiding 7200 dead men from the country is giving that little monkey to much credit.
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It is quite easy to tell I didn't vote for Bush. But I also have issues with Clinton. And I didn't vote for him either.
 
I hate every stinking poltican in America. These bastards have left veterans high and dry and used us liek cattle for pathetic potlical and econmic manuevering. Roman soldiers is what the US military has become. ******* lives away like Stalin did. Makes me want to vomit.
 
Originally posted by Kelzie:
The media has a bias. Everyone knows that, whatever way you think the bias runs. It is almost impossible to analyze a situation and report on it objectively. With that said. News sells. The US government covering up 7,000 deaths would be splashed on the front page of every news paper for weeks if there was even a hint that it was true.

And I also find it odd, in addition to cnredd, that you would admit that a number is wrong, and than latter say that the number is possible to back up an argument. How can it be both?
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I never admitted the number was wrong. That was not my point. I admitted that the source I used said its information gathering was flawed. I also said in that post that no one knows what the number is. But there are more reports coming out that indicate the number is in fact nearer to 100,000. I appeal to you not to be so selective in your comprehension. That is, not as selective as the newest Moderator.

Also keep in mind that the source I listed in Post #1, indicated there is an actual DoD list that they will be posting soon. If they do, and I do, will you do...THE MATH! And if you are wrong, will you admit it? That last statement was more rhetorical in nature. You seem to be quite honest when it comes to observing others.
 
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