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Hurricane Threads (1 Viewer)

I'm new to this forum. I have read through numerous threads. I am stunned by the shallowness and self-involvement.

Does anybody realize that we have just lost a city? One of our great cities. Probably only New York, Nashville and Memphis can compare to The Big Easy. All those people -- artists, musician, regular folks clinging to their homes. Grandmas and uncles and cousins. Cajuns and slickers. Yeah, drug dealers and criminals. Yeah, hustlers and grifters. But mostly a really special American type of people whose lives have been devastated. And the city -- crawfish and gumbo and Jazz in the Quarter. Tennessee Williams and Mardi Gras. My God... is it just too big for us to get our brains around? Are we all really in deep shock and going about our days in a daze? Denying the reality that we just lost New Orleans. It is gone. An entire city...

Welcome howie. And your right I think as a whole we havent yet fathomed the destruction and the losing of a major city like this. I cant understand nor can I put a grip on this. Its really hard for me to understand how much power it must have taken to do this. And I cant fathom losing a major city in america. You are an eye opener
 
Re: What Bush Can Do For New Orleans

HTColeman said:
I am furious with Bush. I am tired of people refusing to place accountability on Bush. Gas prices aren't his fault, the economy is not his fault, Katrina reaction is not is fault...

How could gas prices be Bush's fault? The last I checked, the government does not set prices on private commodities. Besides, Americans shouldn't whine about gas prices. We pay about $3.50 a gallon here, and the Europeans?!?!

The economy has been improving. You haven't seen economic growth in recent years DESPITE 9/11 and DESPITE a sluggish economy in Europe and other places?

Katrina reaction was not that bad, actually. Things would have been better if the state and municipal government had gotten those people out BEFORE the storm and if Gov. Blanco had mobilized her National Guard forces to prevent the violence that occurred in the aftermath of the hurricane.

How could FEMA get emergency supplies into the bayou with many of the bridges knocked out? It takes 48 hours or more to mobilize national guard and army reserves and even longer to get navy ships into the area.

The Coast Guard was there within hours of the hurricane leaving, rescuing people. That is their job and they were prepared for it. SEMPER PARATUS! However, how could anyone have known just how bad this was going to be. The devestated area is the size of the UNITED KINGDOM.

You have a lot of explaining to do if you think that President Bush could have done a better job. It all begins at home and I have already pointed out on numerous occasions how Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin could have done better. How about you tell us what President Bush could have done better?
 
Re: What Bush Can Do For New Orleans

HTColeman said:
I hate when people say this. While some thought they could ride out the storm, many could not leave. N.O. is 67% black, and unfortunately, has a large percentage beneath the poverty line. Many don't know anyone with a car, and many more don't own a car. The city was no help because many of the city buses are under water right now. They had no reasonable way to get out because of negligent planning.



I am furious with Bush. I am tired of people refusing to place accountability on Bush. Gas prices aren't his fault, the economy is not his fault, Katrina reaction is not is fault... When a company goes bankrupt, who takes accountablity? The CEO. When a child shoots up a school and makes bombs in his garage, who do we look at? Their parents. As the leader of the gov't he responsible for its actions, period. Also, we were halfway across the world after the tsunami in days, we took over Iraq in days, why did it take a week for the gov't to do anything. In fact, I count two weeks. A week prior to Katrina hitting they declared that it would be a cat. 5 hurricane, that is when the questions should have been asked. What are concerns about this? Will the levees hold? What is the worst case scenario? None of that happened. The least Bush could do was get off his vacation and speak to America. Hold a press conference like 9/11. We didn't even hear from Bush for 3 or 4 days.

You're exactly right but guess what it's not a federal issue it was the states responsibility to prepare for this disaster, sorry you're going to have to find another wipping boy on this one unfortunately for you it's going to have to be a Dem either the mayor or the governor, actually they're both going down. I suggest you take a brush up course on state and local gov't this is day one stuff.
 
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Re: What Bush Can Do For New Orleans

HTColeman said:
I hate when people say this. While some thought they could ride out the storm, many could not leave. N.O. is 67% black, and unfortunately, has a large percentage beneath the poverty line. Many don't know anyone with a car, and many more don't own a car. The city was no help because many of the city buses are under water right now. They had no reasonable way to get out because of negligent planning.



I am furious with Bush. I am tired of people refusing to place accountability on Bush. Gas prices aren't his fault, the economy is not his fault, Katrina reaction is not is fault... When a company goes bankrupt, who takes accountablity? The CEO. When a child shoots up a school and makes bombs in his garage, who do we look at? Their parents. As the leader of the gov't he responsible for its actions, period. Also, we were halfway across the world after the tsunami in days, we took over Iraq in days, why did it take a week for the gov't to do anything. In fact, I count two weeks. A week prior to Katrina hitting they declared that it would be a cat. 5 hurricane, that is when the questions should have been asked. What are concerns about this? Will the levees hold? What is the worst case scenario? None of that happened. The least Bush could do was get off his vacation and speak to America. Hold a press conference like 9/11. We didn't even hear from Bush for 3 or 4 days.

Yes, we get your point - you care about everything that can be indirectly blame on Bush. And you're even more pissed that Bush doesn't give people like you the time of day, instead of trying to make rescue efforts better. And yes, you don't care that the mayor of NO didn't bother using the dozens and dozens of busses at his disposal to help with evacuations - you don't care about that, he's not Bush. Your obsession's paramaters aren't wide enough to include anyone but Bush, we understand. You didn't hear from Bush for 3 to 4 days, or 3 to 4 years? Do you even stop to listen what he has to say, ever? For instance, declaring New Orleans a federal disaster zone a full day BEFORE Katrina hit? Obviously not, given your blind blasting of him. Oh, and Bush did give a few press conferences about Katrina - before and after the hurricane hit. If you refuse to listen to your president, the least you could do is keep up with what he is doing so you don't sound like a moron with your accusations, ya know? ;)

Anyway, please proceed with your stupid tirade - those like you that refuse to use your brain may care what you have to say... Continue ignoring the shortcomings of other politicians, I know that would make you feel uncomfortable about your blind rage and lack of intelligent argument if you did that....

Oh by the way, I'm sure you don't vote, but I know there's a certain political party that thinks like you and will even give you a free pack of cigarettes if you do what they ask. ;) Email me for their website.
 
Re: What Bush Can Do For New Orleans

HTColeman said:
I hate when people say this. While some thought they could ride out the storm, many could not leave. N.O. is 67% black, and unfortunately, has a large percentage beneath the poverty line. Many don't know anyone with a car, and many more don't own a car. The city was no help because many of the city buses are under water right now. They had no reasonable way to get out because of negligent planning.



I am furious with Bush. I am tired of people refusing to place accountability on Bush. Gas prices aren't his fault, the economy is not his fault, Katrina reaction is not is fault... When a company goes bankrupt, who takes accountablity? The CEO. When a child shoots up a school and makes bombs in his garage, who do we look at? Their parents. As the leader of the gov't he responsible for its actions, period. Also, we were halfway across the world after the tsunami in days, we took over Iraq in days, why did it take a week for the gov't to do anything. In fact, I count two weeks. A week prior to Katrina hitting they declared that it would be a cat. 5 hurricane, that is when the questions should have been asked. What are concerns about this? Will the levees hold? What is the worst case scenario? None of that happened. The least Bush could do was get off his vacation and speak to America. Hold a press conference like 9/11. We didn't even hear from Bush for 3 or 4 days.

You are asking the wrong questions. The local and state government are responsible for disaster preparedness, not the feds. Why was the City of New Orleans' emergency preparedness plan put into effect prior to the storm? The plan calls for local and state assistance in the evacuation of citizens who need assistance. Yet not one bus, school or public transportation, was used to help these people.

http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/9/4/151327.shtml

And it took months of planning in pre-positioning of assets in preparation of the liberation of Iraq. Once the mighty military was in place, then we able to roll across the desert to Saddam's front porch.
 
SKILMATIC said:
Welcome howie. And your right I think as a whole we havent yet fathomed the destruction and the losing of a major city like this. I cant understand nor can I put a grip on this. Its really hard for me to understand how much power it must have taken to do this. And I cant fathom losing a major city in america. You are an eye opener
I was on the ground at Ground Zero on 9/11. My wife was handing out breathing masks to Police and EMS Workers that morning -- our local hardware store gave us cases of them we put onto bikes. There are emotional repercussion that will wash over the entire country over the next few weeks and month and if 9/11 is any indication, they will last for years.

I tried to open a separate thread dealing solely with the emotions we all feel about losing a great city and the powers that be of this forum lumped my original thread post into this very political thread. I have no problem with politics, but we all need a place to express our feelings about the great tragedy.

Hug your loved ones.
 
I am amazed at how many people are so offended that I would criticize Bush, I make some attacks on Bush, and people rush to make attacks on me. On the news, they said they realize that the levees have been out of date for decades, they knew that they wouldn't hold that Hurricane. The Hurricane itself did not destroy the city, it was when the levees broke. That could have been anticipated, but no one took action. And don't tell me the fed. can't do anything, I saw an interview with the gov. of LA, and she didn't even know that troops were coming until she saw them on the news. And don't tell me that Bush couldn't even get off his vacation and speak to America, but we didn't hear from him until some time after. Don't tell me that the Fed. doesn't influence the state gov't tremendously, but the fed. gov't was hands off until it was too late. And the coast guard, God bless them, because they were the only ones there immediately, to help people out. Someone says it takes 48 hours to mobolize troops, they didn't arrive until 6 days later. When the hurricane's hit Florida, immediate action was taken, Bush was down there immediately. I am not saying he doesn't care, but no one did any planning. They knew it was going to a cat. 5 hurricane, the largest hurricane to ever hit the U.S., that should have worried someone.
 
I was watching the Daily Show last night, and they showed Bush saying that they didn't think the levy's would break. I remember watching the weather channel last year, and they said then, that a hurricaine in NO would cripple the city at best and wipe it out most likely. How come the President doesn't watch the weather channel, or the director of FEMA?
 
dustinthewind said:
I was watching the Daily Show last night, and they showed Bush saying that they didn't think the levy's would break. I remember watching the weather channel last year, and they said then, that a hurricaine in NO would cripple the city at best and wipe it out most likely. How come the President doesn't watch the weather channel, or the director of FEMA?

I was watching the Daily Show too, but I missed that part (wasn't really paying attention), but he made several good points. The levys were made for cat. 3 hurricanes, that they knew. The levys were down low, towards the ground, so when the water got too high, they lost power, shut down, and could not pump water. Weather people and engineers knew this information, but no one asked them.
 
Is it beyond the capacity of our government to have one million emergency bedroom modules loaded with emergency food and water available at all times to be transported to any emergency? I think not!
 
DivineComedy said:
Is it beyond the capacity of our government to have one million emergency bedroom modules loaded with emergency food and water available at all times to be transported to any emergency? I think not!

I'm hoping you're being sarcastic.
 
I lived through 6 major earthquakes in southern California. You all saw them on television. The Northridge Quake took the most lives and came from a known Strike Slip fault extending from downtown Los Angeles out into the Pacific Ocean. This quake took more lives than any in recent memory and pointed out the need to do something about construction, retrofitting and preparedness that wasn't done before the disaster struck.

Did we blame President Clinton or expect him to do it all instead of the officials on the ground in LA? I ask again and again - where is this new found interest in disaster relief from our media coming from? Concern or politics? This is where most of you get your information. You hear Diane Sawyer and others wanting to raise your taxes because of Katrina. Good idea huh? Lets pay more out of our pockets along with the world gas prices. That really ought to help the economy.

The sooner people like herding sheep Democrats and Republicans get together and work - work to stop blaming and do the job - the sooner our country will not only be the strongest economy in the world but the best it can be for us. Do Democrats and Republicans do that for us? Of course not. They are too busy defending themselves from each other or planning their next attack. Just think of what could be done if they thought of us first.
:duel :cool:
 
RightatNYU said:
I'm hoping you're being sarcastic.
No, I was not being sarcastic. I was just thinking about the future.

It is a national security matter that when a major city is attacked that those who have lost their ability to “sleep peaceably in their beds at night” get back to work as soon as possible. It is for the war effort. If a million reusable emergency bedrooms, ready to go, is too much for your Spartan tastes, how about a cot, a footlocker (full of food and water), a tarp, and some rope to hang up the tarp? Ophelia is unpredictable and acting crazy, so it is not over yet.

Did I just hear that cute as a button Senator Mary Landrieu has attacked Bush for saying that nobody anticipated the levees breaking? Like Gomer Pyle stupid. I bet that one of those hundreds of swamped school buses would look good painted like Gomer Pyle doing camouflage, almost bought a bus once at an auction for use as a mobile home, and I wish I had one now that I can see the surf churning out my window. Old people drowning like rats in a nursing home, the media all smiles in the bars the night the shutters shook, and all those keys just burning a hole in the pocket of local constituents, yeah, Senator Mary Landrieu says that they anticipated the levees breaking. On second thought it might be best to leave the rope out of the relief package. Now, that is sarcasm. Want to see me get really cruel?
 
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HTColeman said:
And don't tell me that Bush couldn't even get off his vacation and speak to America, but we didn't hear from him until some time after.
That isn't true. Me talked about Katrina the DAY AFTER the hurricane and only a few hours after it became clear what the scope of the disaster was for the city. Remember, initially, it was thought NO was spared the catastrophe that occurred.
 
ludahai said:
Remember, initially, it was thought NO was spared the catastrophe that occurred.
That is true, I remember thinking going to bed the night that Katrina passed saying, well, I guess things are at least over and people can clean up the damage, I remember feeling very sorry for Mississippi and thinking, "Geez, and we were worried about New Orleans" and then the levee gave out......I'll leave it at that for now.
 
Does anyone know how many sections broke and how long?
 
Mayor Nagin refused to use school buses and demanded Greyhounds to evacuate flood victims. Turns out that he wanted more "comfortable" buses for the evacuation. How many people could of been saved if he had used the school buses? It's hard to say, but it's safe to say some lives would of been saved.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/8/114045.shtml
 
So much right wing spin to contend with, so little time.

As to this crap about Bush convincing Blanco to order an evacuation:

Chavez, Murdock advanced dubious claim that Bush convinced Blanco to evacuate New Orleans


Conservative syndicated columnists Linda Chavez and Deroy Murdock advanced the dubious claim that it took a telephone call from President Bush to prompt Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco to order the mandatory evacuation of New Orleans. As Media Matters for America has previously documented, there is little evidence to support this contention.

An August 28 statement by Blanco made clear that President Bush called her just before the August 28 press conference at which the evacuation was announced, casting doubt on the claim that Bush's phone call was a decisive factor in the decision to evacuate. This timeline was later confirmed by White House press secretary Scott McClellan during the September 7 White House press briefing, when he reported that Bush had spoken to Blanco "around 9:00 a.m.," just minutes before the governor's 9:30 a.m. CT August 28 press conference began. The press conference opened with New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin -- not Blanco, as Chavez and Murdock stated -- declaring the mandatory evacuation.

Additionally, Chavez conflated the governor's decision to declare a state of emergency in Louisiana with the decision to call for a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans. As a ThinkProgress.org timeline makes clear, these were completely separate events: Blanco declared a state of emergency on August 26, two days before Bush's August 28 phone call and Nagin's August 28 call for mandatory evacuations. Moreover, it was Blanco who asked Bush on August 27 to declare a federal state of emergency in Louisiana, not the other way around, as Chavez suggested. The president declared a federal state of emergency in Louisiana later that day.

On the September 7 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, Murdock stated:

MURDOCK: I think there's a huge difference between saying, "Look, maybe the president is not giving enough money to education, even though the education budget has gone up by about 50 percent under this president," saying that on the one side, and saying on the other he doesn't care about blacks and therefore he's willing to let them sit out in the sun and dehydrate. I was very frustrated, wondering why they couldn't manage at least to get water to these people until Friday. They should have air dropped water in.

But the president ordered -- pushed on Governor Blanco to have a mandatory evacuation. That was on Sunday. I think on Saturday he declared a state of emergency, came back from his vacation -- probably a day or two later than he should have, but did come back, asked Congress to come in. They approved $10.5 billion, which he signed. So if he really didn't care about black people, I don't think you would have seen -- you wouldn't have seen him pushing for this evacuation.

Similarly, in her September 7 column, Chavez wrote:

Gov. Blanco delayed taking crucial actions -- in fact, it was the president who called her to plead that she declare an emergency. "Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding," the Associated Press reported Aug. 28.

Chavez's column is distributed by Creators Syndicate. Murdock's column is distributed by Scripps Howard News Service. He is a contributing editor at National Review Online.

Source: http://mediamatters.org/items/200509080022
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
So much right wing spin to contend with, so little time.

As to this crap about Bush convincing Blanco to order an evacuation:



Source: http://mediamatters.org/items/200509080022

Maybe they shoul dhave evacuated before the storm hit. Then they would have had all the water they wanted. Or maybe the mayor could have wrangled up the 500 or so buses that were available to him and gotten people out.Letting them become submarines probably wasn't the best decision. Maybe they actually should have let the red cross people and there supplies into the dome. Maybe the people that decided to stick it out should have went and gotten stuff to survive on since they were not going to do what they were told or was smart
 
Calm2Chaos said:
Maybe they shoul dhave evacuated before the storm hit. Then they would have had all the water they wanted. Or maybe the mayor could have wrangled up the 500 or so buses that were available to him and gotten people out.Letting them become submarines probably wasn't the best decision. Maybe they actually should have let the red cross people and there supplies into the dome. Maybe the people that decided to stick it out should have went and gotten stuff to survive on since they were not going to do what they were told or was smart
Yeah, why didn't the poor and homeless just get a week's supply of Poland Springs water, hop in their Range Rovers and head to their winter homes? The gall of some of these people.
 
shuamort said:
Yeah, why didn't the poor and homeless just get a week's supply of Poland Springs water, hop in their Range Rovers and head to their winter homes? The gall of some of these people.

OOOO I keep forgetting that they coldn't evacuate unless it was in a range rover. Wow what was I thinking. I didn't know that the evacuation was going to be a fashion show. So what your saying is that since the poor couldn't evacuate in $40,000 cars to second homes they sholdn't go... OK.. **** em then .. Let em die. It's there decision inthe end anyway. They opted not to leave because there wasn't a limo for them
 
Calm2Chaos said:
OOOO I keep forgetting that they coldn't evacuate unless it was in a range rover. Wow what was I thinking. I didn't know that the evacuation was going to be a fashion show. So what your saying is that since the poor couldn't evacuate in $40,000 cars to second homes they sholdn't go... OK.. **** em then .. Let em die. It's there decision inthe end anyway. They opted not to leave because there wasn't a limo for them
:roll: Yes, that's EXACTLY what I was saying. :roll: My point was made in SARCASM. Meaning that the poor didn't have the resources to leave the town even if they really wanted to. They were stuck there. But it's easy for other people to say "well, they should have left but they're stubborn", when in fact they're not stubborn, they're just poor. See the difference?
 

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