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Now What !!

Peaceful Muslim said:
And Hamas, I didn't excuse it Tashash i said it is the less burning fame..
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You just now excused it again.

I repeat for a third time, and ask for a third time:

Since “Muslims are against hurting civilians in any way,“ and since you “believe that 9/11 served the people who want Islam to look bad and justify the war against it,“ and since the 9/11 attackers wore civilian disguise, consequently, the use of civilian disguise in warfare serves the people who want civilians “to look bad and justify the war against it,” therefore, those people that use civilian disguise in warfare are the enemies of Islam.

Peaceful Muslim, in your opinion, is that a valid argument?
 
GySgt said:
It is an absolute true statement to say that all religions under siege invariably have responded by returning to doctrinal rigor and insisting upon the damnation of nonbelievers. It is written across history. Each major religion has known its share of threats to its philosophical and practical integrity. Each religion has the capacity for esxtremism and at certain points in history we can pin point each religion's time of failure.
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Good observation -- it also explains what is going on in the Muslem world to a degree, IMO. There is a power stuggle between moderate and extreme, and actions that increase the perception of "seige" will tend to, as you point out, fuel the more radical extremist elements of the religion. Our invasion and long term occupation of Iraq, based on false pretenses, is perceived by many as a threat to their religion -- fueling the radical and extremist elements. Exactly the opposite of what we should be doing.

However, claiming such a thing as a Muslim, smacks of desperate exoneration. While claiming that most Muslims are not like this, you would be absolutetely correct, but you must also acknowledge that those same Muslims are also not lifting a fringer to condemn these zealots who are doing everything imaginable to destroy your religion. One of the reasons for this is fear of the extremist elements within the Muslim world, especially in the Middle East. Another is that Islam’s inherent divisiveness lends itself to radical interpretation of the Qur’an and Hadiths; these texts support a potential for violence not found in other major religions.
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Most Muslems condemned the attack of 9/11, all over the world. Those celebrating it were isolated groups. If there are groups of Muslems that are not condemning the resistance to the US occupation of Iraq, we can find another, probably the main rease set out in your first paragraph.
 
Iriemon said:
Most Muslems condemned the attack of 9/11, all over the world. Those celebrating it were isolated groups. If there are groups of Muslems that are not condemning the resistance to the US occupation of Iraq, we can find another, probably the main rease set out in your first paragraph.
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Sure they condemned it. Those that knew better, also prepared themselves for the coming storm.

However, my point was to bring attention to the very sad fact, that we do not see these condemners of 9/11, protesting the likes of Bin Laden or the hundreds and hundreds of Mullahs that would pervert their religion and use it to slaughter and destroy. For the Muslim world, especially in the Middle East, the lines that seperate true Islam, Radical Islam, and the act of their "martyrs" are very grey. Were the Muslim people to march and riot against the true blasphemers of Islam like they do for a cartoon, the world may see "Islam" in a different way.
 
PeacefulMuslim said:
I do live in the Middle East but far away from everything took place.
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I also live in the Middle East PeacefulMuslim. I also know that there are Western communication satellites in geostationary orbit above the Middle East, and that many of these satellites have transponders soley dedicated to Arabic media transmissions. Unless you are a Beduin living in a tent, you have easy access to global communications. Your presence at DP via the Internet is testament to that surety.

PeacefulMuslim said:
As for the consequences, i am not really interested to know how they were punished as far as i am concerned i know they were arrested.
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Then your apathy is shameful. One of the aspects of Arabic culture that I find truly barbaric is the practice of 'Honor Killings'. Almost every week without fail a young Palestinian girl or woman is killed by a family member because she somehow 'dishonored' her family. The usual Palestinian method is to douse her with gasoline and set her ablaze. Your casual dismissal about crime and punishment above vividly reminds me of this. Very often in Honor Killings, the murderer will publicly and willingly confess the deed. Why? Two reasons. Firstly, a public admission that a family member murdered the victim restores 'honor' upon the family. How family honor is restored by murdering a rape victim eludes me. Secondly, the murderer will spend no more than two years in prison if the deed was an Honor Killing. Sadly PeacefulMuslim, your apathy towards punishment does not surprise me.

PeacefulMuslim said:
I said it before Tashah, what you see on TV doesn't represent the majority of muslims. In all religions, there are always people who do not practice their religion the way they should or follow every bit of it and a percentage of those express their anger in improper ways. I my self was really upset and mad when i saw those cartoons but i instead of turning it into violent actions i acted in a different way.
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I agree Peaceful Muslim. People of every stripe and religion commit crime. The contradiction that bothers me about Islam is why has no qualms about severely punishing some offenders (such as rape victims), and yet it is very lenient towards other nefarious offenders (such as arsonists, looters, and killers of civilians). I am stumped.

PeacefulMuslim said:
And Hamas, I didn't excuse it Tashash i said it is the less burning fame..
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According to what you are saying then... Hamas is the lesser of two evils? Tell me something PeacefulMuslim. Is Palestine so devoid of the righteous? Is it a Sodom and Gomorrah where not even a handful of good people can be found? If this synopsis is factual and true, that Palestine is barren of good people... then I can understand why the Palestinians voted as they did.

However if this harsh indictment is not true and Palestine does contain people who are righteous... then I cannot understand how it came to be that they are so silent and invisible. Isn't it against Islamic mores that even a lesser evil prevails over goodness and righteousness? Can you not see the inherent hypocracy PeacefulMuslim?
 
PeacefulMuslim, Tashah being an Israeli Jew, the only thing she cares about doing is making herself out to be some kind of Betty Bad *** and trying to make you and your people look bad so that she may attempt to make Israel look like it is completely and totally innocent and saintly in the Israeli Palestinian conflict rather than acknowledge and admit some of the wrong doing that Israel has done. She tries to do this by demonizing your people and your religion. It makes much easier for her to attempt to justify some Israeli crimes by demonizing Muslims. I wouldn't pay much attention to her or some of the others nor take them seriously.
 
ManOfTrueTruth said:
PeacefulMuslim, Tashah being an Israeli Jew, the only thing she cares about doing is making herself out to be some kind of Betty Bad *** and trying to make you and your people look bad so that she may attempt to make Israel look like it is completely and totally innocent and saintly in the Israeli Palestinian conflict rather than acknowledge and admit some of the wrong doing that Israel has done. She tries to do this by demonizing your people and your religion. It makes much easier for her to attempt to justify some Israeli crimes by demonizing Muslims. I wouldn't pay much attention to her or some of the others nor take them seriously.
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Ummm no. I didn't get to be a Forum Moderator by demonizing anyone. If you had more time invested in DP, you would realize how ridiculous your above pontifications and indictment really are. I have never stated that Israel is above reproach, and never will. I would strongly suggest that you peruse more of my posts here at DP before engaging in such premature hyperbole.

PeacefulMuslim initiated this thread to open up a dialogue between herself (a Muslim) and non-Muslims. As such, I have asked her to explain, as best she can, her personal take on what to me and many non-Muslims are contradictions between what Isalm says and what transpires in the Middle East. I am always willing to amend or soften my views as dialogue and critical thinking allows.

You don't have to answer any questions PeacefulMuslim. You don't have to ask any. But then the whole purpose of this exercise is at best diluted and at worst moot. As far as I am concerned, it is only you and me. Ask questions or answer them or do whatever it is you wish to do. As I said long before, this is an opportunity. Do we seize it together, or squander it in mute isolation as some apparently would prefer? Do what you think best.

Shalom ~ Sala'am,
Tashah
 
Tashah said:
Ummm no. I didn't get to be a Forum Moderator by demonizing anyone. If you had more time invested in DP, you would realize how ridiculous your above pontifications and indictment really are. I have never stated that Israel is above reproach, and never will. I would strongly suggest that you peruse more of my posts here at DP before engaging in such premature hyperbole.

PeacefulMuslim initiated this thread to open up a dialogue between herself (a Muslim) and non-Muslims. As such, I have asked her to explain, as best she can, her personal take on what to me and many non-Muslims are contradictions between what Isalm says and what transpires in the Middle East. I am always willing to amend or soften my views as dialogue and critical thinking allows.

You don't have to answer any questions PeacefulMuslim. You don't have to ask any. But then the whole purpose of this exercise is at best diluted and at worst moot. As far as I am concerned, it is only you and me. Ask questions or answer them or do whatever it is you wish to do. As I said long before, this is an opportunity. Do we seize it together, or squander it in mute isolation as some apparently would prefer? Do what you think best.

Shalom ~ Sala'am,
Tashah
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I know, it's just fun arguing with you. However, I do take the Palestinian side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I also think Iran has the right to possess nuclear weapons. If Israel and the US possess nuclear weapons, then it is only fair that others, including Islamic states, should also be able to possess them. I seriously doubt that an Islamic state would ever use them on the US or Western powers so long as the US or other major powers do not attack them first; maybe Isreal, but that is because they believe that Israel has no right to exist because land that Muslims lived on for centuries was all the sudden stolen by Jews, so why should they think that Israel has a right to exist? I am interested in hearing your viewpoint as to why the Muslims in the Middle East should recognize Israel's right to exist?
 
ManOfTrueTruth said:
I know, it's just fun arguing with you. However, I do take the Palestinian side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I also think Iran has the right to possess nuclear weapons. If Israel and the US possess nuclear weapons, then it is only fair that others, including Islamic states, should also be able to possess them. I seriously doubt that an Islamic state would ever use them on the US or Western powers so long as the US or other major powers do not attack them first; maybe Isreal, but that is because they believe that Israel has no right to exist because land that Muslims lived on for centuries was all the sudden stolen by Jews, so why should they think that Israel has a right to exist? I am interested in hearing your viewpoint as to why the Muslims in the Middle East should recognize Israel's right to exist?
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Letting middle eastern countries, or any other country for that matter, have nukes is a bad idea. I think we should be trying to move AWAY from the capability to destroy the human race. That and countries with only first strike capability are much more instable.
 
ManOfTrueTruth said:
I know, it's just fun arguing with you. However, I do take the Palestinian side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I also think Iran has the right to possess nuclear weapons. If Israel and the US possess nuclear weapons, then it is only fair that others, including Islamic states, should also be able to possess them. I seriously doubt that an Islamic state would ever use them on the US or Western powers so long as the US or other major powers do not attack them first; maybe Isreal, but that is because they believe that Israel has no right to exist because land that Muslims lived on for centuries was all the sudden stolen by Jews, so why should they think that Israel has a right to exist? I am interested in hearing your viewpoint as to why the Muslims in the Middle East should recognize Israel's right to exist?
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Dude, quit your bullshit and just say it. You want to see Israel nuked. You want to see the Jews driven into the sea. We all know it, say it, you'll feel better, and we can get past your semantics and deal with your hate and the root of said hate.
 
Kelzie said:
Letting middle eastern countries, or any other country for that matter, have nukes is a bad idea. I think we should be trying to move AWAY from the capability to destroy the human race. That and countries with only first strike capability are much more instable.
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Then the United States, along with all the other major powers, should completely disarm themselves of nuclear weapons. If the US, along with the major powers set a good example, I think it will be easier to pursuade other nations to follow suit. But so long as the US and the major powers insist on keeping large nuclear arsenals, their would be no reason for others to follow suit. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
 
ManOfTrueTruth said:
Then the United States, along with all the other major powers, should completely disarm themselves of nuclear weapons. If the US, along with the major powers set a good example, I think it will be easier to pursuade other nations to follow suit. But so long as the US and the major powers insist on keeping large nuclear arsenals, their would be no reason for others to follow suit. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
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I agree. It certainly is not going to happen for quite a while. And not getting rid of our nukes doesn't mean we have to let other countries have them. Especially unstable ones like Iran.
 
ManOfTrueTruth said:
I know, it's just fun arguing with you. However, I do take the Palestinian side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I also think Iran has the right to possess nuclear weapons. If Israel and the US possess nuclear weapons, then it is only fair that others, including Islamic states, should also be able to possess them. I seriously doubt that an Islamic state would ever use them on the US or Western powers so long as the US or other major powers do not attack them first; maybe Isreal, but that is because they believe that Israel has no right to exist because land that Muslims lived on for centuries was all the sudden stolen by Jews, so why should they think that Israel has a right to exist? I am interested in hearing your viewpoint as to why the Muslims in the Middle East should recognize Israel's right to exist?
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The obtuseness is sickening.

The threat of a nuclear strike from Iran is not necessarily from a "launch." The threat is their fundamental practice into terrorism based on a perversion of their religion. If Iran is perfectly content with buying assassins to enter an Israeli market to destroy himself for the sake of murdering Jews, then it is perfectly acceptable that a nuclear weapon might also find it's way into the hands of a Radical terrorist who wishes the greatest prize in heaven he can get. This pathetic (and there is absolutely no other word for it) sentiment that all should have nukes because fair is fair is utter nonesense and ignorant. Be thankful that other men are looking after the security of you and yours.

Have you seen a f****ing map of the Middle East? Are you aware of how tiny an area Israel is as compared to Muslim lands? It is truly a retarded argument that Jews "stole" Muslim land: The earliest known mention of the name 'Israel', probably referring to a group of people rather than to a place, is the Egyptian Merneptah Stele dated to about 1210 BCE. Under Babylonian, Persians, Greek, Roman, Byzantine, and (briefly) Sassanian rule, Jewish presence in the province dwindled due to mass expulsions. The expansion of the Roman Empire (Jewish revolt) resulted in the widescale expulsion of Jews from this area. It was during this time that the Romans gave the name Syria Palaestina to the geographic area, in an attempt to erase Jewish ties to the land. The Muslims conquered the land from the Eastern Roman Empire in 638 CE. Cyrus the great, one of histories greates leaders, freed the Jews from Babylon and allowed them to return to Israel. The area was ruled by various Muslim states (interrupted by the rule of the Crusaders) before becoming part of the Ottoman Empire in 1517. The Turks owned this land until they lost it to France and England during WWI. England colonized this region until 1949, when they gave it to the Jews through the UN. And this is why the "Muslims of the Middle East should recognize their right to exist" instead of acting like animals to the delight of every retard and anti-semite around the globe that has no idea of history, yet tries to use it to justify "Palestinian" land.

I warned you before about using history to justify anything. One only needs to go back to 1949. If you are going to use anchient history, you might as well be prepared to go all the way back. Using select historical eras is a Muslim tactic to justify his actions of the day. Do you need proof? Study Khomeini and what he thinks about the great Persian leader Cyrus the Great. This era is mostly what he envisioned for Iran's future as he blasted away at Zionist occupation of Muslim lands. You won't find anywhere in his teachings to his "true believers of God" about how Cyrus returned Israel to the Jews after he conquered the Middle East in 638 BC. The irony would be hilarious were it not for the civilizational tragedy involved.
 
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*sigh* Why do you always have to outdo me gunny?
 
ManOfTrueTruth said:
Then the United States, along with all the other major powers, should completely disarm themselves of nuclear weapons. If the US, along with the major powers set a good example, I think it will be easier to pursuade other nations to follow suit. But so long as the US and the major powers insist on keeping large nuclear arsenals, their would be no reason for others to follow suit. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
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Damn. You might as well place a pistol to your head and pull the trigger.

Screw the goose and screw the gander. Survival and prospertiy does not rely on hugs, kisses and fairness.:roll:
 
Kelzie said:
*sigh* Why do you always have to outdo me gunny?
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I don't mean to out"do" you.:cool:

There's just too many people out there that are basing their opinions on a complete lack of knowledge.
 
GySgt said:
I don't mean to out"do" you.:cool:

There's just too many people out there that are basing their opinions on a complete lack of knowledge.
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It's okay. Feel free to out"do" me any time.:2wave:
 
Kelzie said:
I know. That was my plan all along. :2wave:
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I know it was. You have discovered my weakness. Damn, did I type that out loud?
 
Kelzie said:
It's okay. Feel free to out"do" me any time.:2wave:
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Should take the word "out" out...:cool:
 
GySgt said:
I know it was. You have discovered my weakness. Damn, did I type that out loud?
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I won't tell anyone. I'll just use it to get you to do whatever I want. :2wave:
 
Kelzie said:
I won't tell anyone. I'll just use it to get you to do whatever I want. :2wave:
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Yeah, that's about the way it always happens.

Off to school.
 
GySgt said:
Yeah, that's about the way it always happens.

Off to school.
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You go to school?
 
ManOfTrueTruth said:
But then again, their are thousands of you teacher, people who are blind, ignorant and preach alot irrationality and hatred.
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ManOfTrueTruth said:
Tashah being an Israeli Jew, the only thing she cares about doing is making herself out to be some kind of Betty Bad *** and trying to make you and your people look bad so that she may attempt to make Israel look like it is completely and totally innocent and saintly in the Israeli Palestinian conflict rather than acknowledge and admit some of the wrong doing that Israel has done. I wouldn't pay much attention to her or some of the others nor take them seriously.
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Tashah said:
Ummm no. I didn't get to be a Forum Moderator by demonizing anyone. If you had more time invested in DP, you would realize how ridiculous your above pontifications and indictment really are.
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ManOfTrueTruth said:
I know, it's just fun arguing with you.
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Dude, that's just friggin weak. You lecture me on hate and then in the same breath turn around and spew hate at Tashah. She puts you in your place and you're all "I was just having fun." Bullshit. You got called and racked, then tried to weasel out. Plain and simple. Now you have Tashah's and GySgt's attention at the same time. Enjoy Gunny's history lesson did you? I warned you before MOTT, don't be bringing entry level Romper Room incorrect bullshit to this place. Them there folks round these here parts be real smart like. You'll get called. You poor (explicative deleted). Look up. Thems vultures.

And why you walking funny?
 
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