Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawal?

I disagree with the idea of Dems. giving aid to the enemy by asking for a withdrawal date. Nobody expected us (esp. Americans) to stay in Iraq indefinitley. The Pentagon has released deployment dates for its Brigades to the end of 2008 with a drawdown in 2006 from 160,000 to 90,000. I believe after six plus years in Iraq that if we cant accomplish what we set out to do then we should withdrawal.

cnredd said:

I can answer your whole comment in relation to this one phrase...

If someone stated "I will never..." that is because that person would be under the impression that certain factors would not appear to make him/her believe otherwise...If that person ended up using a "phone from his pocket" X years later, saying "I was wrong" would be a correct statement....

"I was lying when I said that" would not be correct...

Here's another..."I am not going to Harrisburg, PA Friday"...True statement...I've never been there before, and I have no intentions whatsoever of going there in the future...

Now what happens if, tomorrow, I get a phone call from the state saying that they found lost documentation from a grandparent that died in the sixties stating that his inheritance will go to last person that can keep the family's bloodline intact...which is me...$5 million dollars...They want me there Friday to sign documents and receive the check...

Did I say "a lie" in my original comment of "not going to Harrisburg, PA" if Friday morning I'm in a limo heading for the state's capital?

Of course not..

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Hey now! You'd never come up and hobknob with the big boys with me? oh well hell, and here I thought I had an ally to tell them how utterly ridiculous they are :rofl

debate_junkie said:

Hey now! You'd never come up and hobknob with the big boys with me? oh well hell, and here I thought I had an ally to tell them how utterly ridiculous they are :rofl

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Hey!...

It took me years to get Rendell outta Philly...

What makes you think I'd follow him to Harrisburg?!?!?...:2wave:

cnredd said:

Far from null & void...

A) So the sudden reversal in my "Harrisburg" analogy is a "flip-flop"?...

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Skip the analogies as they're bogging you down and are not complete apples and oranges with the orginal mention of the facts at hand.

cnredd said:

B) Why do you consider the three-year span a "sudden reversal"?

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I don't consider a three-year span a sudden reversal. I consider what Bush did a flip-flop from his earlier stance.

Trajan Octavian Titus said:

Post Hoc? So are you saying the post 9-11 environment was not a factor in Bush's changing stance on the roll of the military?

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I'm not saying that at all. Of course, I'm not the one who hammered home that Kerry was a flip-flopper without explaining that he had extraneous reasons for doing what he did either.

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

There is a way to have a timetable and still have outs. The best way is to say if everything goes as we have planned some date will the when the last US solder leaves Iraq. This aids the enemy as much as our continued presesence in the Middle East and our support for Israel.

cnredd said:

Hey!...

It took me years to get Rendell outta Philly...

What makes you think I'd follow him to Harrisburg?!?!?...:2wave:

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to get him BACK to Philly, so he stops spending tax money to do Eagles post game live, and sucking up to Angelo Cataldi and company But think this time, he'd go back as a private citizen :mrgreen:

I think Cheney/Bush are missing the point again.
Their problems are not coming from Democrats.
When they have 60% of the American people disapproving
of their actions, it is clear this is a lot more then Democrats
" saying mean things".

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

Navy Pride said:

Are the democrats in the Senate giving aid and comfort to the enemy for asking for a deadline fro withdrawal from Iraq?

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By Law, the War Powers Act, we should have had a deadline set in March 2003. If we'd like to have an open ended conflict, we should declare war.

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

Navy Pride said:

Are the democrats in the Senate giving aid and comfort to the enemy for asking for a deadline fro withdrawal from Iraq?

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Thats the least of things that will harm the American effort! The more serious idiotic treasonous behavior that senate democrats engage in is charging that THEY were lied to by Bush about the Iraqi war!

Absolute contemptable charges, ..which only can empower the terrorists cause, I mean, what the hell, if the American senate democrats can call the president a liar about the war, ..surely what does anybody think the terrorists have to say about it.

Recruitment for terrorists made easy by the lying disingenuine senate democrats that put POLITICS above, & beyond the security of the United States, ..& EVEN the lives of our soldiers!

The Muslim fanatics eat it all up, ..& they love it when senate democrats compare a few american soldiers engaging in bytch slapping as; "torture" at the terrorist prisons!

Some of the senate democrats, ..& the scandalous media ARE the greatest ALLY the terrorists ever could hope to have in their corner!

Those senate liberal whackos, ..think that by REPEATING accusations over & over again that it will stick; ..to them its called why; "it must be true".

They will do anything, say anything, ..& YES...even "sell out" the security of their own country, & publicy attempt to humiliate, chastize & even call our presdent such things as "as bad as the talliban, & a terrorist himself, a murderer, a liar, a racist............anything at all, ..& it gives terrorists HOPE, & a sense of legitimization"!

Its an old script by LIBERALS that was successful during Viet-nam, ..call our soldiers baby killers, murderer's..& in the words of John Kerry, "Our soldiers acted like Ghengis Khans, deliberatley cutting off arms, legs..& even shooting at civilians for sport!!!! (lies,& rubbish that actually caused harm to our soldiers)

It is true that some like Lt. Calley acted criminally in Viet-Nam, ..but he was prosecuted, but listening to John Kerry's words, ..he WANTED people to believe it was a daily, & ongoing effort by most of our soldiers.

Kerry's behavior was SHAMEFUL then, ..& not much different than the effort that the senate democrats are engaging in today!

This IS the road they WANT to travel, because they THINK its the shortest route for THEM to the whitehouse in 08', ..& they are HOPING that by their PILING on it will have the same desired effects that Watergate had, ..& THIS you better believe is exactly what they are after.

The DNC always needs an invented scandal in order to have half a chance at winning presidential elections; ..& be not decieved their fellow media allies WILL attempt to help them get there!

Pity really...that Bush isn't the fascist Nazi murderer that the senate liberal whackos charge him as, ..if it were so I "might" even root for him to have those who are really aiding, & abetting the terrorists cause in the senate lined up against a brick wall, ,..& executed for treason!!!

Think of it, why if Bush ever succumbed to that temptation ...that would be the only g-damn time that senate democrats ever told the truth about Bush!:smile:

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

Stu Ghatze said:

Thats the least of things that will harm the American effort! The more serious idiotic treasonous behavior that senate democrats engage in is charging that THEY were lied to by Bush about the Iraqi war!

Absolute contemptable charges, ..which only can empower the terrorists cause, I mean, what the hell, if the American senate democrats can call the president a liar about the war, ..surely what does anybody think the terrorists have to say about it.

Recruitment for terrorists made easy by the lying disingenuine senate democrats that put POLITICS above, & beyond the security of the United States, ..& EVEN the lives of our soldiers!

The Muslim fanatics eat it all up, ..& they love it when senate democrats compare a few american soldiers engaging in bytch slapping as; "torture" at the terrorist prisons!

Some of the senate democrats, ..& the scandalous media ARE the greatest ALLY the terrorists ever could hope to have in their corner!

Those senate liberal whackos, ..think that by REPEATING accusations over & over again that it will stick; ..to them its called why; "it must be true".

They will do anything, say anything, ..& YES...even "sell out" the security of their own country, & publicy attempt to humiliate, chastize & even call our presdent such things as "as bad as the talliban, & a terrorist himself, a murderer, a liar, a racist............anything at all, ..& it gives terrorists HOPE, & a sense of legitimization"!

Its an old script by LIBERALS that was successful during Viet-nam, ..call our soldiers baby killers, murderer's..& in the words of John Kerry, "Our soldiers acted like Ghengis Khans, deliberatley cutting off arms, legs..& even shooting at civilians for sport!!!! (lies,& rubbish that actually caused harm to our soldiers)

It is true that some like Lt. Calley acted criminally in Viet-Nam, ..but he was prosecuted, but listening to John Kerry's words, ..he WANTED people to believe it was a daily, & ongoing effort by most of our soldiers.

Kerry's behavior was SHAMEFUL then, ..& not much different than the effort that the senate democrats are engaging in today!

This IS the road they WANT to travel, because they THINK its the shortest route for THEM to the whitehouse in 08', ..& they are HOPING that by their PILING on it will have the same desired effects that Watergate had, ..& THIS you better believe is exactly what they are after.

The DNC always needs an invented scandal in order to have half a chance at winning presidential elections; ..& be not decieved their fellow media allies WILL attempt to help them get there!

Pity really...that Bush isn't the fascist Nazi murderer that the senate liberal whackos charge him as, ..if it were so I "might" even root for him to have those who are really aiding, & abetting the terrorists cause in the senate lined up against a brick wall, ,..& executed for treason!!!

Think of it, why if Bush ever succumbed to that temptation ...that would be the only g-damn time that senate democrats ever told the truth about Bush!:smile:

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I read this and it makes me think that..........

A large percentage of politicians are not worthy of their offices and/or are a combination of so many things (insert bad language here those who wish to) that make them, IMO, unfit for leadership.

"Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawal?"

Inadvertantly, they most definately are.

The terrorists and adherent Islamic extremists have no doubt that they can ever defeat us. We are too powerful. Despite the thousands of personal tragedies from former terrorists attacks and the practical disruptions that resulted from most recent attacks, we remain colossal and even stregthened. Our enemy's only formiddable weapon is our own people. They rely on our media to blast away at every controversy. They rely on our own politicians to undermine every effort, while seeking votes for the next big one. They rely on our citizens to weaken in the face of prolonged conflict and death tolls. They rely on our dissention. We were not the only ones that learned lessons from Vietnam. So did our enemies.

What will destroy us in the end is if our enemy ever unites under one banner, because our country, has the abilty to show so much dissent and fickleness that they will not stand together for anything. Much of the country doesn't even know what the enemy is and some of them think it's only one man in a cave and his organization. Most all politicians (even Democrats) know very well of the issues behind terrorism, yet they will act stupid publicly and demand answers (that they know they can't and shouldn't get from any President regarding the decay beneath terrorism) to make the polls worse and gain votes. They know very well that we can not put a concrete time table on Iraq and why, yet they will ask the question on a routine basis for only one reason - and it's not for an answer.

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

Simon W. Moon said:

By Law, the War Powers Act, we should have had a deadline set in March 2003. If we'd like to have an open ended conflict, we should declare war.

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Exactly, here's a relevent part of the act:

3) in numbers which substantially enlarge United States Armed Forces equipped for combat already located in a foreign nation; the president shall submit within 48 hours to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and to the President pro tempore of the Senate a report, in writing, setting forth--

(A) the circumstances necessitating the introduction of United States Armed Forces;

(B) the constitutional and legislative authority under which such introduction took place; and

(C) the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement.

Click to expand...

So, the question is, why is the republican controlled congress giving comfort the enemy by not declaring war and violating the War Act?

hipsterdufus said:

I think Cheney/Bush are missing the point again.
Their problems are not coming from Democrats.
When they have 60% of the American people disapproving
of their actions, it is clear this is a lot more then Democrats
" saying mean things".

Click to expand...

Thank God this president does not run his presidency by questionable meida polls...........

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

Simon W. Moon said:

By Law, the War Powers Act, we should have had a deadline set in March 2003. If we'd like to have an open ended conflict, we should declare war.

Click to expand...

Come on Simon, we have not declared war in a conflict since 1941......

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

shuamort said:

Exactly, here's a relevent part of the act:

So, the question is, why is the republican controlled congress giving comfort the enemy by not declaring war and violating the War Act?

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"Declaring war" is passe. It's soooo WWII.

Besides, how do you declare war on a civilization? That is what we are up against. Iraq and Afghanistan shared the same decay. They were just two problems within this region. These people are raised to hate the west, especially America. We are the Great Satan. Allah's enemy. What we are up against would equal the mentality of America if we lived in oppression and raised our children to hate all non-Christians. From this civilization, would come forward zealots and extremists that would wage war for God as our "peaceful" people cheered behind closed doors and sometimes in the streets. It would do no good for the rest of the world to run around killing our extremists, whilst our civilization continued the status quo and used the rest of the world as a scapegoat to explain away all that we had done to ourselves.

How do you "declare war" on something that many Americans can't even or refuse to see? What's extremely sad, is that many can't or refuse to see this, because it does not allow them to be "politically correct."

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

I won't even cast a vote in this poll, as it's slanted Fox News style. I will however say that even though I lean toward the Democrat's side as a general rule, I have to agree that setting a specific date for our exit would be foolish, but this administration, as was demanded of Clinton in 1999, needs to have a clearly defined exit strategy.

As far as any aiding and comforting of the enemy goes... I think the Republicans have a hell of a lot of nerve accusing anyone of politicizing this war when they say something like this during the same speech. If anyone has politicized this war on terror, it is the Republicans and most specifically, this administration. The American people can only be blinded for so long, and as evidenced by the very low poll numbers that the Republicans and this administration are getting, people aren't buying it anymore. Better come up with some new PR spin.

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

JustMyPOV said:

I have to agree that setting a specific date for our exit would be foolish, but this administration, as was demanded of Clinton in 1999, needs to have a clearly defined exit strategy.

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Good point.

Here's what Republicans said about Clinton and Kosovo

"President Clinton is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be
away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."

-Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)


"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99

"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."

-Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of presidential candidate George W. Bush

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

"You can support the troops but not the president"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"My job as majority leader is be supportive of our troops, try to have input as decisions are made and to look at those decisions after they're made ... not to march in lock step with everything the president decides to do."

-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

shuamort said:

Good point.

Here's what Republicans said about Clinton and Kosovo

"President Clinton is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be
away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."

-Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)


"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99

"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."

-Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of presidential candidate George W. Bush

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

"You can support the troops but not the president"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"My job as majority leader is be supportive of our troops, try to have input as decisions are made and to look at those decisions after they're made ... not to march in lock step with everything the president decides to do."

-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

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So Republican leadership pulled this garbage, now it's the Democrats turn?

In the mean time, Kosovo, Somalia, Bonsia, Afghanistan, Iraq - all had a common underlying problem behind the violence. Instead of addressing this and the product it creates, politicians tear at each other and their loyal constituants parade it around like sheep, while the military actually tries to addresses said problems that have been obviously creeping up and was predicted decades ago. Pffffff.

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

GySgt said:

So Republican leadership pulled this garbage, now it's the Democrats turn?

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More specifically, Bush pulled this garbage and now he's flip-flopped on it.

GySgt said:

In the mean time, Kosovo, Somalia, Bonsia, Afghanistan, Iraq - all had a common underlying problem behind the violence. Instead of addressing this and the product it creates, politicians tear at each other and their loyal constituants parade it around like sheep, while the military actually tries to addresses said problems that have been obviously creeping up and was predicted decades ago. Pffffff.

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Exactly.

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

scottyz said:

Were Republicans giving aid to the enemy in 1999?

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Interesting that you bring up Kosovo.

How can you support Kosovo, but not Iraq?

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

M14 Shooter said:

Interesting that you bring up Kosovo.

How can you support Kosovo, but not Iraq?

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Easy....Kosovo was under Democratic sponsership. This is how you can tell the bashers from the individuals who are above the politics.

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

GySgt said:

Easy....Kosovo was under Democratic sponsership. This is how you can tell the bashers from the individuals who are above the politics.

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Y'know... it used to be that the liberals could tell the good guys from the bad by the rifles they carried - those toting AK47s were "freedom fighters".

No wonder the war in Iraq so obviously confuses them.

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

M14 Shooter said:

Interesting that you bring up Kosovo.

How can you support Kosovo, but not Iraq?

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I never said I supported Kosovo or not, but we at least completed our stated mission and left. We had the support of NATO and we weren't left with a $700 billion dollar deficit for it.

How can these Republicans support Iraq but not Kosovo?

Re: Are dems in the Senate giving aid to the enemy by asking for a date for withdrawa

scottyz said:

I never said I supported Kosovo or not, but we at least completed our stated mission and left. We had the support of NATO and we weren't left with a $700 billion dollar deficit for it.

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Well, gee.
1) When we're done in Iraq, we'll leave
2) We had the Support of NATO because NATO wanted it done and could not do it w/o us.
3) Please explain how the war in Iraq caused a $700B deficit.

Note too that if the war in Iraq was "illegal" then so too was the war in Kosovo.