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Is being gay a choice?

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Navy Pride said:
When it comes to whether gays are born that way we will just have to agree to disagree..............That is a whole another thread..........One thing we can agree on is African Americans are born that way and can not change.......
Uh...the thread is called "Is Being Gay a Choice". You all just turned it into a gay marriage debate.
A couple of things I saw through all these pages: As to wills, you can will your property to whomever you wish-even me :mrgreen: You can also leave guardianship of surviving minor children to whomever you wish. But, this must all be in writing and it applies to conventional marriage as well. Being married does not automatically ensure you get the kids and house. First choice, yea, but as long as there's in-laws, there'll be fights.
As to the 14th amendment-this is all I could find in the articles of that amendment: Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
As I see it, there is no law preventing gay marriage per se, at least until it's brought up in whatever state.
Being gay is just as much a part of a person as being black or white, except that, due to the small-minded, has to be hidden or 'dealt with'. No one 'turns gay' and those that said they 'were gay, but now straight', are bi. Or so brainwashed by religious cults, they're told they'll burn in hell if they don't 'go straight'.
Just as being black or Jewish many times raises the ire of bigots, so does being gay. No one would CHOOSE to risk life and limb, but sometimes, MOST times it's better to face your own music and destiny than to hide for the sake of some brainless clueless zealots.
Being gay, being married, getting divorced, it's life, it should be accepted as such instead of all this foolish bickering. Divorce impact your taxes?? What planet does that occur on? Gay marriage affects YOUR life somehow? No...not at all. Maybe a law should be passed that no one at all gets married until they can pass a intelligence test.
 
aps said:
First of all, marriage is limited to only 2 people. Allowing gay marriage would not then allow polygamists.
If you remove the traditional gender restriction on "civil rights" grounds, how can you not remove the numerical restriction with the same logic?

Sorry, Navy Pride, I see NO difference between the color of someone's skin and someone's sexuality.
Neither is an excuse for deviant behavior. If someone's sexual preference is for sheep or children, they are expected not to act on their preference. Think of it as just another handicap they must bear, just like smokers who must tolerate the intolerance of others who are annoyed by their behavior.

Okay, I am looking at the 14th Amendment right now. Gay people are "citizens" and "person."
So are pedophiles and sadists. It is acting on their impulses which is unacceptable.

They changed the meaning of marriage to prevent gay marriage, which is disgusting.
No, they didn't change it. They correctly rejected your proposed change. Tough. Learn to love it.

jallman said:
The legal marriage contract, as it now stands, is designated to two people only. All of this intense rhetoric that it is specific to a man and a woman is a fairly new occurrence in the debate and it is specifically invoked for the sole purpose of blocking gay marriage.
Marriage is between one man and one woman in our culture. Polygamy is accepted in other cultures (none of them particularly successful), but same-sex unions have never been accepted as the equal of marriage anytime, anywhere. The language may have changed to "two people" recently as a sop to the feminist crowd, but the perversion of same-sex "marriage" is a very recent absurdity.

ngdawg said:
Being gay is just as much a part of a person as being black or white, except that, due to the small-minded, has to be hidden or 'dealt with'.
True. If it's not due to nurture, it must be due to nature just like any other birth defect such as pedophilia, Downs syndrome, or the urge to pull wings off flies.

Think of homosexuality as being akin to tobacco addiction: barely legal, in no way respectable, and certainly unworthy of legal protection.
 
Diogenes said:
True. If it's not due to nurture, it must be due to nature just like any other birth defect such as pedophilia, Downs syndrome, or the urge to pull wings off flies.

Think of homosexuality as being akin to tobacco addiction: barely legal, in no way respectable, and certainly unworthy of legal protection.

Thank you for that most excellent example of small-mindedness. Pedophilia is not a birth defect. The urge to pull wings off flies? What kid didn't? Tobacco addiction IS legal, but THAT is a choice.....
Read the amendment again. Says nothing about 'but only if you are straight'.
 
ngdawg said:
Thank you for that most excellent example of small-mindedness. Pedophilia is not a birth defect. The urge to pull wings off flies? What kid didn't? Tobacco addiction IS legal, but THAT is a choice.....
Read the amendment again. Says nothing about 'but only if you are straight'.
The truth hurts, eh? :mrgreen:
 
A) You wouldn't know the truth if it proposed marriage to ya.
B) Since I am not gay, I can only deduce by your statement that you are now hurting.....
 
UtahBill said:
one small step, toward what? a theocracy? do we want pat robertson, jerry falwell, etc. making our laws? I HOPE NOT.
I consider myself a Christian, of the 4 gospels variety, which is a minority as most are of the "whatever Paul says" variety, but the last thing I want in the USA is the religious right dictating morals to the rest of us. The only theocracy I want to see is when Jesus the Christ comes back and takes over.
I would be willing to bet that he would choose a "cabinet" that consists of very few of our current religious leaders.
GWB did a stupid thing by putting John Roberts in as chief justice, altho I could have supported him as a regular justice. He slapped all the other justices in the face by doing that, as most of them deserve the position far more than JR. And Miss Harriet? How stupid does GWB think the American public is? We know Miss HM is a poor choice, because she thinks George is intelligent. What does GWB think? He thinks, "Duh, I am a dumbass, but she thinks I am intelligent so she deserves a position at SCOTUS".
Hey, I voted for GWB twice, so that must make me eligible for supreme commander of dunkin donut deliveries......:spin:


I have very little use for Falwell or Robertson..I just want to live long enough to see Roe V Wade overturned and see the end to the butcher of unnocent defenseless babies in the womb.........

There have been many instances when a new Judge has come into the SCOTUS.......Earl Warren comes to mind..................

We will see what happens on HM............She is pro life and to me that is a good thing..........
 
sissy-boy said:

That's just it now isnt' it. You can't even DETECT how you've been hateful and intolerant towards others. Do you think people run around calling each other PERVERTED and IMMORAL because they LIKE one another??

Grow up, and if you have something important to say, then try to say it, otherwise consider yourself IGNORED. You're an intolerant hate-monger.


Wait.. what now? Where have i said homosexuality is perverted and immoral? LOL im an intolerant hate-monger? :rofl Where the hell do you get this from? Becuase i believe marraig is strictly btwn a man and a woman, i am a hate monger? Man, you are a tard arent you! Your trying to make me look like a foolish idiot by accusing me of false statements... Why dont you grow up? YOU ARE A HATE-MONGER! You hate me for no reason! At least i, and many others on here, have a reason to dislike you (i.e. your statement above)
 
Navy Pride said:
I have very little use for Falwell or Robertson..I just want to live long enough to see Roe V Wade overturned and see the end to the butcher of unnocent defenseless babies in the womb.........

We will see what happens on HM............She is pro life and to me that is a good thing..........
Who is going to adopt all these unwanted babies? That would be the ones born to mothers who could not find someone to give them an illegal and unsafe abortion, of course.
Will the church members who are pro life step up and raise these kids?
I doubt it.
I agree that the babies are innocent and defenseless, that is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. But you can go too far in the prolife direction as well. I have heard it said that even victims of rape and incest should be forced to carry their child to term. Not to mention the ones who the doctors know in advance will be born severly retarded and/or deformed.
A lot of people hold that opinion, until it happens to someone they love, then all bets are off.
Too many church types see a bastard child as the product of sin, and then blame the child, or at least treat the child as somehow less of a child of God during its upbringing. I like what Ann Landers once said about it. She says, "there is no such thing as an illegitimate child, only illegitimate parents".
There is the issue to address first. Get the parents going in the right direction, and the abortion issue will no longer exist.
 
UtahBill said:
Who is going to adopt all these unwanted babies? That would be the ones born to mothers who could not find someone to give them an illegal and unsafe abortion, of course.
Will the church members who are pro life step up and raise these kids?
I doubt it.
I agree that the babies are innocent and defenseless, that is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. But you can go too far in the prolife direction as well. I have heard it said that even victims of rape and incest should be forced to carry their child to term. Not to mention the ones who the doctors know in advance will be born severly retarded and/or deformed.
A lot of people hold that opinion, until it happens to someone they love, then all bets are off.
Too many church types see a bastard child as the product of sin, and then blame the child, or at least treat the child as somehow less of a child of God during its upbringing. I like what Ann Landers once said about it. She says, "there is no such thing as an illegitimate child, only illegitimate parents".
There is the issue to address first. Get the parents going in the right direction, and the abortion issue will no longer exist.

True but keep in mind too that we have a negative birth rate (at least I think we do) so I don't see abortion being a problem as far as population overcrowding goes.
 
UtahBill said:
Who is going to adopt all these unwanted babies? That would be the ones born to mothers who could not find someone to give them an illegal and unsafe abortion, of course.
Will the church members who are pro life step up and raise these kids?
I doubt it.
I agree that the babies are innocent and defenseless, that is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. But you can go too far in the prolife direction as well. I have heard it said that even victims of rape and incest should be forced to carry their child to term. Not to mention the ones who the doctors know in advance will be born severly retarded and/or deformed.
A lot of people hold that opinion, until it happens to someone they love, then all bets are off.
Too many church types see a bastard child as the product of sin, and then blame the child, or at least treat the child as somehow less of a child of God during its upbringing. I like what Ann Landers once said about it. She says, "there is no such thing as an illegitimate child, only illegitimate parents".
There is the issue to address first. Get the parents going in the right direction, and the abortion issue will no longer exist.


I have a flash for you.......There are long waiting lists for new borns in this country......I have friends that waited 3 years and finally adopted a baby from Korea..............

I really don't want to get in a religeous debate with you because how I feel about murder in the womb has very little to do with religion.......
 
Navy Pride said:
I have a flash for you.......There are long waiting lists for new borns in this country......I have friends that waited 3 years and finally adopted a baby from Korea..............

I really don't want to get in a religeous debate with you because how I feel about murder in the womb has very little to do with religion.......

Hey, here's an idea...lets not hijack this thread...there is a whole forum where you can duke it out over Pro-oppression/pro-choice.
 
jallman said:
Hey, here's an idea...lets not hijack this thread...there is a whole forum where you can duke it out over Pro-oppression/pro-choice.

Your right, sorry not sure how that happened.......Back on topic.......
 
Navy Pride said:
Your right, sorry not sure how that happened.......Back on topic.......

haha, its alright...I was being somewhat facetious and sarcastic...reread my descriptions of pro life/pro choice. :doh
 
ngdawg said:
Being gay is just as much a part of a person as being black or white, except that, due to the small-minded, has to be hidden or 'dealt with'. No one 'turns gay' and those that said they 'were gay, but now straight', are bi. Or so brainwashed by religious cults, they're told they'll burn in hell if they don't 'go straight'.
Just as being black or Jewish many times raises the ire of bigots, so does being gay. No one would CHOOSE to risk life and limb, but sometimes, MOST times it's better to face your own music and destiny than to hide for the sake of some brainless clueless zealots.
Being gay, being married, getting divorced, it's life, it should be accepted as such instead of all this foolish bickering. Divorce impact your taxes?? What planet does that occur on? Gay marriage affects YOUR life somehow? No...not at all. Maybe a law should be passed that no one at all gets married until they can pass a intelligence test.

Great post ngdawg! :agree
 
Diogenes said:
If you remove the traditional gender restriction on "civil rights" grounds, how can you not remove the numerical restriction with the same logic?

Stupid argument.

Neither is an excuse for deviant behavior. If someone's sexual preference is for sheep or children, they are expected not to act on their preference. Think of it as just another handicap they must bear, just like smokers who must tolerate the intolerance of others who are annoyed by their behavior.

Whatever. I will say that I have ZERO sympathy when I see smokers suffering from health problems due to their pathetic addiction. I love how their ability to smoke wherever they want is slowly eroding. Bwahahahhahahaha

So are pedophiles and sadists. It is acting on their impulses which is unacceptable.

Whatever.

No, they didn't change it. They correctly rejected your proposed change. Tough. Learn to love it.

Learn to love it? What a stupid thing to say.

You're dismissed.
 
sissy-boy said:

You're an intolerant hate-monger.
Mod Gavel

Let's knock off the personal attacks in this forum.

/Mod Gavel
 
Ok, I took this from a psychologists' point of view. I went to the mall yesterday and found a gay kid that I use to know at school. Now, I had made a list of questions to ask him about his "condition". At first he thought that I was going to make fun of him, but when I explained what my purpose was, he agreed to work with me. The questions, and answers, are as follows:

1.) Why are you gay?
I don't know. I've just always been this way.

2.) When did you notice that you were "different" from the other kids?
When I was 8 or 9. But my feelings for guys didn't really kick in until I was 12.

3.) Do you like being the way you are?
Yes and no. No, because I get made fun of all the time. People can be so harsh. And yes, because of the friends I've made and it just feels... right.

4.) When you say it just feels "right", do you mean it feels "natural"? Like you're supposed to be that way?
Yes. It does feel very natural.

5.) Would ever want to change who you are?
No, I like being a little different from everyone else.

Now, I ve come to a few conclusions about this "example" (remember, this is only one homo out of God knows how many others). He was this way at birth. So his genes must have been "programmed" that way.
The Age of Reason is around the age of 7. That's where humans learn right from wrong and self-consciousness. So he became aware that he was "different".
He is aware of the "pros/cons" of being gay. But in his opinion, it sounds like the "pros" outweigh the "cons".
He also claims that his whole situation is "natural". Which leads me to believe that there is something programmed into his head, like with his genes/DNA, that makes him "feminine".

Now, some would argue that there are displays in nature that look homosexual. Like when a male dog humps another male dog. Is it really an act of homosexuality, or is it a display of intimidation/domination? The intimidation/domination guess is that if you look at prisons (for males and females) they engage in homosexual acts to dominate the other individual(s). But they also do it for comfort and whatever else. Like they have their own families (you should watch a film about female prisons, I'm not gonna go into detail here).

So, if homosexuality is "natural", then what makes it "natural"? Is it natures' joke? Or is it a form of population control? This argument is really for a neurologist to answer, cuz I don't have the answers.
 
Diogenes said:
If you remove the traditional gender restriction on "civil rights" grounds, how can you not remove the numerical restriction with the same logic?

Because the numerical restriction on marriage does not result from the same logic. It comes from the legal contract of marriage not allowing for multiple partners. An entirely new contract would have to be constructed. This argument is fallacious, boring, and unintelligent at its core.

Neither is an excuse for deviant behavior. If someone's sexual preference is for sheep or children, they are expected not to act on their preference. Think of it as just another handicap they must bear, just like smokers who must tolerate the intolerance of others who are annoyed by their behavior.

Here is another fallacious, boring, and unintelligent argument. Those who would engage in sexual activities with sheep or children are predatorial and lacking in distinct moral boundaries. Children nor sheep can consent to engagement in sexual activity. When are you "slippery slope" idiots going to get that through your heads? Your whole argument lacks foundation, intelligence, and even creativity. It is a mindless load of drivel spoon fed to you by religious wing nuts and you buy it hook, line, and sinker.

Further, smoking is a choice, no a handicap. I know of no study that says one is genetically predisposed to smoking. Nor do I know of one which says homosexuals can put on a patch to curb their attractions for the same sex. Intolerance of smoking is intolerance of a behavior. Intolerance of homosexuals is intolerance of a person.

So are pedophiles and sadists. It is acting on their impulses which is unacceptable.

Here again with this mindless drivel. You guys will grasp at any straw you can because your arguments are ignorant, lacking in substance, and based purely on emotional bias against something you think is "icky". Well when your likes and dislikes become grounds for legislating against a group of people, we'll be sure to send you the memo.

Again, pedophilia is a predatorial practice. The practice of pedophilia and sadism presumes a clear and present danger to the object of desire for the pedophile or the sadist. These are relationships founded upon victimization. This is why these practices are unacceptable.

No, they didn't change it. They correctly rejected your proposed change. Tough. Learn to love it.

Or take part in constructive activism and overturn these rejections...its not so hard, it happens all the time and we shall see who wins the final struggle. Evolution toward a more inclusive and pluralistic society has been a constant march for America, so it only stands to reason that your ignorant and vile philosophies will die out in time.

Marriage is between one man and one woman in our culture. Polygamy is accepted in other cultures (none of them particularly successful), but same-sex unions have never been accepted as the equal of marriage anytime, anywhere. The language may have changed to "two people" recently as a sop to the feminist crowd, but the perversion of same-sex "marriage" is a very recent absurdity.

As I said before, we shall see who wins this one in the end. Already, the rest of the world is working toward acceptance and I am sure America will follow suit eventually. The language was changed for the feminists...and so it is only a logical assumption that it can change again. And again and again as long as we see fit. The true absurdity concerning marriage is how the heterosexual population have demeaned its value (exhibited by a high divorce rate, rampant infidelity, deviation from the doctrines of the Church concerning grounds for divorce, etc) yet they think that it is their proprietary right to deny that institution to those who seem to really want it.

As to your baseless assertion that same sex unions have never seen equality to traditional marriages, you may wish to look just across our northern borders to Canada. You will be quite surprised...though I something tells me you have a problem with Canadians too.

True. If it's not due to nurture, it must be due to nature just like any other birth defect such as pedophilia, Downs syndrome, or the urge to pull wings off flies.

Pedophilia is a psychological aberrance resulting in a predatorial attraction to the young. Down's syndrome is a very obvious birth defect caused by physical abnormalities that results in a retardation of the mental faculties and abnormalities in morphology. I was not aware that there were any studies showing a predisposition to pulling the wings off flies, but if there are, please point me to an article. Your entire argument is again baseless and its crossing over into being pointless.

Think of homosexuality as being akin to tobacco addiction: barely legal, in no way respectable, and certainly unworthy of legal protection.

I prefer to think of homosexuality in a more sane and realistic way. It is a part of society, is becoming more widely accepted as a way of life for those born with the predisposition, already protected legally in the same way every other citizen is protected, and doesnt require your respect or validation.
 
I prefer to think of homosexuality in a more sane and realistic way. It is a part of society, is becoming more widely accepted as a way of life for those born with the predisposition, already protected legally in the same way every other citizen is protected, and doesnt require your respect or validation.

You are right, Homosexuality is part of society but I am not sure it is becoming more accepted........I think most people will never consider it a acceptable alternate life style as evidenced by the huge uproar against gay marriage.......
 
Navy Pride said:
That is yours and his opinion....A lot of us don't agree with it.....

Why would you say that? When did I ever imply that you and others agreed with our opinion?
 
Navy Pride said:
You are right, Homosexuality is part of society but I am not sure it is becoming more accepted........I think most people will never consider it a acceptable alternate life style as evidenced by the huge uproar against gay marriage.......

True, there is an uproar against "marriage", but some of the most die hard conservatives even offer validity to an equal institution of civil union. And you look at the 20-30yo crowd...most everyone you speak to on the topic either doesnt have an opinion or they have friends who are homosexuals and treat them just like anyone else. I think the moral objection to the lifestyle is waning over all and you will see a total shift in the attitude of yesteryear to one of more than just tolerance, but of total acceptance.
 
aps said:
Why would you say that? When did I ever imply that you and others agreed with our opinion?

I am not saying you did say that.......I am saying that a lot of us don't agree with you and the other poster that you praised..........
 
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