DarkWizard12

What rights are they not enjoying? I haven't seen any of my friends whoa re getting sued for liking men.

Gipper

C'mon, man. This has nothing to do with a government stance and everything to do with a homosexual mayor making a personal statement at the taxpayer's expense.

If it was a number of other demographics, it'd be dismissed as self-serving sensationalism. Unfortunately, it's about a taboo subject we're not allowed to overtly question.

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A government big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. - Barry Goldwater

new coup for you

the individual politics of the monument are incidental to its meaning. people are perfectly capable of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, if that's even what happened. Europeans are extremely supportive of homosexuality, it's hardly unlikely that the monument has no broad public sentiment. Regardless, there are other monuments to the nazi persecution of homosexuals that were created without any extenuating political circumstances.

the reality is that the right doesn't like monuments like this because it forces people to confront the human cost of their kind of violent prejudice. it's easier to maintain the legitimacy of anti-gay stances for "religious" or "cultural" reasons when there isn't a broad public awareness of the logical conclusion of that position. Jim Crow in the south wasn't killed by politicians or laws, it was killed by television. when people in America who possessed nominally racist or pro-segregation positions (or at least some sort of apathy) were confronted nightly with the reality of southern race relations on the nightly news, the situation changed faster then it had in 50 years.

awareness of the evil of that kind of bigotry is what will end it. for those who practice such bigotry it is vital to suppress the historical truth of anti-homosexual purges.

nazis didn't hate homosexuals for religious reasons, however many of their reasons were very similar to the right's current position. Decrying the "corruption" of traditional values and "the family", as well as portraying homosexuality as part of a broader leftist plot foisted upon "the volk" by the conniving intellectuals.

the very fact that people who will will in no way be impacted by this monument merely because it visibly supports an idea provides evidence for my position. if people who don't want this monument were motivated by rationality they wouldn't care. it has no impact upon them. if they're motivated by a desire to repress the reality of their position, or shear malevolence towards homosexuals, obviously it's of great import.

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======OBAMA
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And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

Gipper

So you're saying that they're trying to shove tolerance down the throats of everyone while asking taxpayers to flip the bill?

We're talking about a very, very small number of a certain type of people that only gain recognition because it's impossible to question it without being labeled a homophobe or a bigot. Gays are shrouded within a cloak of absolute piety and self-righteousness that it becomes a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario where they are heard no matter what, and you're wrong if you disagree, even if it's based on evidence, common sense, or legitimate fact.

Do Jews feel some need to shove the Holocaust down the throats of the non-Jewish populace? Do they constantly try to ruffle the feathers of non-apologists? I've never heard a Jew come up to me and scream, "If you're not absolutely repulsed by the Holocaust you're a festering piece of sh*t".

You can't tell me that building a public monument to something like this helps the cause any. If anything, it's just perpetuating the axiom that gays are attention whores of the highest order who will use any excuse to thrust their orientation in your face, whether you want them to or not.

There's already public awareness of gays. Trust me, there is. It's hard to ignore.

If I went to downtown Damascus or Tehran and started crying about how Hitler killed six million Jews and that "they've already been hurt enough", do you think they'd just lay down arms against Israel? And Hitler really stuck it to Jews. He just killed a couple gays because they were there.

I'm not impacted because of the methodology of its origin. A gay man with access to taxpayer revenue wanted to create a self-serving monument. Did we really need this built to know that Hitler is evil? If this was a communist or a Jewish mayor doing this, he'd be denounced...and he'd have much more rationale for constructing one than a gay man.

new coup for you

you've provided no evidence that there wasn't pubic support. do you understand that they built this monument in Germany? Germany is unbelievably liberal.

Yes, you are required to tolerate people different from you in society. There is a hierarchy of legitimate needs. Equality trumps beliefs. What people can do is more important then how people feel. You have to deny that it's a fight for equality because the logic of denying people equality merely so religious fundamentalists can feel better about society is absurd. But that's exactly what it is. People in America feel that Jesus's feelings are more important the actual lives of real existent people. They wont say that allowed (or at least non-Evangelicals wont) because its not only patently wrong it's obviously illegal.


And if you don't think Jews absoultely obsess over the Holocaust you don't know any Jews.

Yes, the truth is sometimes, even often, ignored. But history has shown that while the arch of history is long it does bend towards justice.

And finally there are other monuments to the Nazi persecution of homosexuals.

It's not just about the Nazis, it's about all persecution of homosexuals, something which until very, very recently has been totally ignored in civil rights history.

If people don't talk about the persecution, and make it visible, it will continue. Every civil rights movement has proven this.

Gipper

Actually, I've heard the complete opposite. Consider the fact that Merkel is in charge who is, by European standards, rather conservative.

Well if you want to talk about equality, are there 100 monuments to Jews killed in the Holocaust for every monument to gays? After all, there were infinitely more Jews killed than gays. The only problem is that Jews don't invoke it at quite the audible level as gays do. However, in the Jew's defense, nobody does.

This is just yet another case of gays elevating themselves above everyone else, and to hell with you if you don't like it.

My bad. I didn't know gay men tied to telephones and beaten to death by a group of bigots was a huge problem in Germany.

Gays are tolerated at record levels now. Thirty years ago you couldn't have half the shows on television you have now. Hell, I know guys who act gay in clubs to get chicks to dance with them and get phone numbers. Don't sit there and tell me that being homosexual in this day and age gives you this stigma of an outcast.

If it was any more visible, I'd trip on a rainbow flag walking down the street.

new coup for you

I guarantee there are at least 100 holocaust memorial, I know of 2 gay ones.

What the hell Jews do you know? I literally haven't gone more then two weeks in my entire life without hearing a Very Solemn Speech about the horrors of the Holocaust. I think it's excessive but ultimately tolerating endless Holocaust speeches is hardly a burden compared to allowing that kind of anti-semitism to rise.

Will & Grace is my equality? Does Will & Grace allow me to marry, give me hospital visitation rights or adoption rights?

Being gay absolutely does not hurt you- provided you live in a cosmopolitan urban center full of progressive liberals. other places are...well...Laremy. Of course the irony is that where gays really need help, places like Laremy, it isn't given. Places where we're protected and accepted, like Germany, is where people are "working against intolerance". I'm aware that this isn't particularly good strategy. However, building gay monuments in JEE-SUS land would actually be "shoving it down your throats", which is of course much more valuable then human rights.

Do you want to know the real reason red staters don't want gays to have equality? It isn't just about their hatred, its' about deep rooted loathing of the progressive North. The South is still mad that the North used federal power to force them to change their society through desegregation. Now, I genuinely believe that the South isn't particularly more racist then the North (in fact in some ways I think it's less racist), however I think the South is still seething that "those damn uppity Yankees" forced their views (even though they're now universally accepted as the correct view) on them. As a consequence they want to do something similar to the North- and they've chosen homosexuals as an easy target.

It's entirely about obsession, hatred and inferiority complexes.

Ethereal

So, when are they going to erect the beastiality monument? Also, is this a monument of two dudes making our or something? What, exactly, is a monument recognizing homosexuals supposed to look like?

Jerry

Is it just me, or is such a statue nothing more than a political way to set up all gay-marriage opposers to look like Nazis? A grand violation of Godwin's Law, imo.

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"Nature has it's bad designs eaten by it's good ones."
Eyes of Nye, episode 114

new coup for you

well, the Nazis did oppose homosexuality for many of the same reasons as the current political right...not for Jesus, but out of authoritarian obsession to squelch social dissent, love of traditional family and a general belief that homosexuality was a liberal plot.