Has US abstinence policy failed? - Page 2

GarzaUK · 04-26-08, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

I notice this interest on the part of Europeans on a whole range of American topics that have no possible bearing on their lives. Its actually a negative critique. It seems very strange to me that Europeans would care about a minor American domestic subject that can have no possible effect on their existence. I sometimes suspect that this is a device by which Europeans attempt to validate the social choices they have made without reference to any evidence pro or con.

It's called being interested in the outside world beyond our borders. Trust me if more Americans did the same, the world would be a better place.

We also are so curious about America because it is an anomoly. It is the only Western nation to have death pelanty, where the majority of people do not think evolution to be true, where abortion is a political issue, where abstinence is taught in schools (I mean even European Catholic coutnries don't to that!!),where people cling to guns like to children and yet you are the richest nation in the world.

The US is a very very very strange country in regards to the rest of the free world.

But why are you so defensive about us debating your issues? If you want to debate European social issues, go right ahead, I would enjoy it for a change, I'm sure we all would.

Arcana XV · 04-26-08, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarzaUK

But why are you so defensive about us debating your issues? If you want to debate European social issues, go right ahead, I would enjoy it for a change, I'm sure we all would.

Exactly. Since when is having an opinion on something other than what's right in front of your nose a bad thing?

I've discussed European affairs with Americans countless times and would have never dreamed of telling them to mind their own business. On the contrary, I quite value their input.

I just don't get this animosity coming from aegyptos. He must have come across some pretty screwed up Europeans to have such a low opinion of us.

aegyptos · 04-26-08, 11:19 AM

Very curious. American rarely show this level of interest in the internal politics and attitudes of Denmark, say.

As far as the subject is concerned I doubt is abstinence teaching has any real effect but I doubt that the alternatives that the left prefers have any real effect as well.

aegyptos · 04-26-08, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarzaUK

If you want to debate European social issues, go right ahead, I would enjoy it for a change, I'm sure we all would.

I have little interest in European social issues or solutions except when they are intruded into my sphere by outsiders who are selling them as panaceas to problems they think exist in the United States. Some examples are gun control, race relations, tax policy, socialized medicine, Kyoto and so on. The level of ignorance of the American social and political scene displayed by the people selling these (always leftwing) nostrums is astonishing. You can easily see why it would come to my notice. I would no more offer advice to Europeans on questions inherent in their societies than I would tell Nissan engineers how to build a car. I object when they do so coming, as they are, from a position of colossal ignorance.

Arcana XV · 04-26-08, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

I have little interest in European social issues or solutions except when they are intruded into my sphere by outsiders who are selling them as panaceas to problems they think exist in the United States. Some examples are gun control, race relations, tax policy, socialized medicine, Kyoto and so on. The level of ignorance of the American social and political scene displayed by the people selling these (always leftwing) nostrums is astonishing. You can easily see why it would come to my notice. I would no more offer advice to Europeans on questions inherent in their societies than I would tell Nissan engineers how to build a car. I object when they do so coming, as they are, from a position of colossal ignorance.

I don't understand what you mean. As far as I can determine, the people in your country who are trying to change the gun laws, taxation policies, healthcare and everything else you mentioned, are as American as you are. Usually of the Democratic persuasion. What do you mean, outsiders? Since when do Americans even listen to outsiders?

TacticalEvilDan · 04-26-08, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

Why do two people in Europe care so much what happens with internal matters in the US? Americans spend no time worrying about how Europeans handle these things. What is the reason for this difference?

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

Yes, but why do you care? Why is what happens on this topic in a foreign country of importance to you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

Emotional ties? I have no idea what that means. Can you be a little more specific?

Why do I ask?

I notice this interest on the part of Europeans on a whole range of American topics that have no possible bearing on their lives. Its actually a negative critique. It seems very strange to me that Europeans would care about a minor American domestic subject that can have no possible effect on their existence. I sometimes suspect that this is a device by which Europeans attempt to validate the social choices they have made without reference to any evidence pro or con.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

Very curious. American rarely show this level of interest in the internal politics and attitudes of Denmark, say.

As far as the subject is concerned I doubt is abstinence teaching has any real effect but I doubt that the alternatives that the left prefers have any real effect as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

I have little interest in European social issues or solutions except when they are intruded into my sphere by outsiders who are selling them as panaceas to problems they think exist in the United States. Some examples are gun control, race relations, tax policy, socialized medicine, Kyoto and so on. The level of ignorance of the American social and political scene displayed by the people selling these (always leftwing) nostrums is astonishing. You can easily see why it would come to my notice. I would no more offer advice to Europeans on questions inherent in their societies than I would tell Nissan engineers how to build a car. I object when they do so coming, as they are, from a position of colossal ignorance.

What I think is hilarious is the fact that you've had nothing whatsoever to say on the actual subject of this thread, which is very much worth discussing.

Instead, all you can do is bitch about Europeans having something to say on American social issues, while we run around the world "spreading democracy."

I be perfectly frank, I'm much more comfortable with Europeans who know so much about American politics and are this curious about American social issues than I am with Americans who know so little about anything outside the United States, much less the politics and social issues of other nations, who simultaneously applaud the United States for throwing our military around in other people's back yards and "spreading democracy."

Oh, and for the record, while I think it's about time for the general American public realize that abstinence education sucks great big fat moose ****, I think it's going to be turned into a feather in the caps of social conservatives who then say, "SEE?! 25% OF OUR YOUNG GIRLS HAVE STDs! WE AREN'T TEACHING ENOUGH ABSTINENCE!"

My proposal: Shoot anyone who squeezes political discourse into bite-sized chunks smaller than 5 minutes.

The sound-bite: Narcotic of politicians, or poison of the masses? Next, on Donahue!

independent_thinker2002 · 04-26-08, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

Why do two people in Europe care so much what happens with internal matters in the US? Americans spend no time worrying about how Europeans handle these things. What is the reason for this difference?

America claims the rest of the world as a "US interest". I don't see what is so wrong about Europeans having an opinion about our policies. Instead of debating the debater, debate the issue.

independent_thinker2002 · 04-26-08, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

Very curious. American rarely show this level of interest in the internal politics and attitudes of Denmark, say.

As far as the subject is concerned I doubt is abstinence teaching has any real effect but I doubt that the alternatives that the left prefers have any real effect as well.

It's because Americans are too self-absorbed to think about anything but themselves. You know, discussing how other countries approach issues might actually teach us something. America isn't perfect.

Arcana XV · 04-26-08, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

Very curious. American rarely show this level of interest in the internal politics and attitudes of Denmark, say.

They did during the whole Mohamed cartoons fiasco.

As for the "level of interest" displayed here, might it have something to do with the fact that the issue of how to handle teenage sexual education is not just an American concern? I dunno, I'm just guessing.

Quote:

As far as the subject is concerned I doubt is abstinence teaching has any real effect but I doubt that the alternatives that the left prefers have any real effect as well.

What alternatives does this "left" you speak of prefer? And why do you think they have no effect?

obvious Child · 04-26-08, 02:35 PM

From 20/20 hindsight, I can't really be surprised that the program failed. The way that abstinence was taught was by restricting information. Most programs barely touched on or completely ignored concraceptives and safe sex practices much less abortion. When you fail to give the necessary information to people, they tend to make bad decisions.