• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do gays recruit children?

CaptainCourtesy said:
Depends on how you word it. Not ALL evangelicals call on the death of gays. If you say, evangelicals do, you are overgeneralizing and making an inaccurate statement. Clarity is key.
Click to expand...

I didn't say "all" evangelicals. I said "American Evangelicals" and then provided an article that clearly indicated I was talking about 3 specific Evangelicals. Then I got chewed out for "Christian bashing" because I dared to mention the part they played in Uganda.
 
CriticalThought said:
I didn't say "all" evangelicals. I said "American Evangelicals" and then provided an article that clearly indicated I was talking about 3 specific Evangelicals. Then I got chewed out for "Christian bashing" because I dared to mention the part they played in Uganda.
Click to expand...

I'm just pointing out one of my MAJOR pet peeves. Easy way to not get accused of attacking ALL Christians... liberals, conservatives, atheists, theists, pro-choicers, pro-lifers, etc... is to use the word "SOME" or to clarify with specifics and reject absolutes. Again, clarity is key.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I'm just pointing out one of my MAJOR pet peeves. Easy way to not get accused of attacking ALL Christians... liberals, conservatives, atheists, theists, pro-choicers, pro-lifers, etc... is to use the word "SOME" or to clarify with specifics and reject absolutes. Again, clarity is key.
Click to expand...
To be fair, I dont think it's wrong to have the expectation that YOU understand the poster probably doesnt mean ALL (group). I dont think we should confuse a poster giving you some credit with using too broad a brush.
 
Hoplite said:
To be fair, I dont think it's wrong to have the expectation that YOU understand the poster probably doesnt mean ALL (group). I dont think we should confuse a poster giving you some credit with using too broad a brush.
Click to expand...

I disagree. It is the writers responsibility to be as clear as possible. Saying "group" doesn't care about chjildren/veterens/poor/blacks/etc... at best communicates poorly, is unclear, and presents an overgeneralization, and at worst baits and flames and ridiculously stereotypes an entire group.
 
digsbe said:
I was responding to your comment. I did read the thread that you posted. However I feel your points are wrong. I am an evangelical, I go to an evangelical church. No one I know supports making homosexuality punishable by death.
Click to expand...

He didn't say that all or even most evangelicals support this. But it was a group of evangelicals that brought the initial views of homosexuality be evil and homosexuals trying to recruit children to many of these people. A group of evangelicals did start this particular movement of hate against homosexuals in Uganda from what it looks like, unless you have some proof that the Ugandans were planning to treat homosexuality like this prior to the group's message or were already treating homosexuals like they are now.
 
When I was growing up, the idea of gays "recruiting" young adults and teens, taking advantage of their inexperience to convince them they were actually gay, and/or abusing children, was the conventional wisdom.

The two boys I grew up with who later came out as gay, both cited childhood abuse by adult males as the "cause" of their "Gayness". This tended to reinforce the idea, in my mind.

I tended to believe this was true for most of my life, having seen no reason to question it until rather recently.

Nowadays, there are experts crawling out of the woodwork to tell me that this stereotype isn't so, and citing their studies and surveys.

:shrug: I don't know. I'm not going to say that it is something all gays do, or even most. I have seen and heard enough goings-on in the real world that I have little doubt there are some gays who attempt to "turn" teens or young adults for their own reasons. I've overheard at least one conversation between two gay men on that very subject. Is this practice commonplace or rare? I have no idea. :shrug: Probably someone will be along presently to assure me that it is exceedingly rare and that I shouldn't be concerned about such things.
 
The estimate is that 1 out of 3 girls and 1 out of 7 boys is sexually abused. That means a lot of people have been sexually abused as children, both gay and straight.

If you were sexually abused as a child, and then you turned out to be gay, the natural conclusion a lot of people would draw is that their sexual orientation was the result of the abuse. There is no way to prove or disprove that it is. Likewise, nobody who was abused and turned out straight believes that they turned out straight because of their abuse.

This creates a difficult problem. How do you determine whether sexual abuse affects sexual orientation?

For one thing, not everyone who is sexually abused turns out gay. In fact, most people who were sexually abused as children turned out heterosexual.

For another, not everyone who turns out gay was sexually abused. In fact, most people who are gay, were not sexually abused as children.

That alone doesn't prove that sexual abuse couldn't have an effect on sexual orientation but it does prove that it isn't the major causal factor. It demonstrates that those who are gay and who were sexually abused are a very small minority.


As far as gays trying to "turn" straights. It does happen. More often than not with very bad results. You can't persuade someone into something like that unless the predisposition is already there.
 
Last edited:
Personally? I am very offended by this question and that is all I will say about it or get in trouble:(

There are straight, gay and bi pedophiles. The END!
 
CriticalThought said:
As far as gays trying to "turn" straights. It does happen. More often than not with very bad results. You can't persuade someone into something like that unless the predisposition is already there.
Click to expand...


I don't agree with the bolded statement at all.

You can, given influence, time and manipulation, persuade human beings into doing many things that they had no previous predisposition for. Stockholm Syndrome is one good example of this. The real world provides innumerable milder examples in everyday life if you look around you and see what is going on with people. I don't see why sexual behavior would be any different. Even those who believe orientation in innate and inborn usually postulate that people who are not gay engage in homo behavior under some circumstances.... it is how they attempt to dismiss apparent orientation-change in some people.

In my LE-days I encountered many con-men and con-women who were master manipulators, who demonstrated an incredible ability to get people to do things that were, to all appearances, against their own nature and best intrests. It happens all the time. Sometimes these manipulations have long-term effects. I've seen honest and law-abiding young folks turned into career criminals by the machinations of some older crook who gained influence over them.

I don't think this would be any different.
 
Last edited:
Goshin said:
I don't agree with the bolded statement at all.

You can, given influence, time and manipulation, persuade human beings into doing many things that they had no previous predisposition for. Stockholm Syndrome is one good example of this. The real world provides innumerable milder examples in everyday life if you look around you and see what is going on with people. I don't see why sexual behavior would be any different. Even those who believe orientation in innate and inborn usually postulate that people who are not gay engage in homo behavior under some circumstances.... it is how they attempt to dismiss apparent orientation-change in some people.
Click to expand...
Stockholm is a temporary mindset, lasting generally as long as the situation warrants. I dont see how you could change someone's sexuality from gay to straight or straight to gay, you may be able to convince someone they are straight or gay but eventually that guise will fail. A good example are many members of the ex-gay movement. Many of them recanted their "cures" after several years, having CONVINCED themselves they were straight only to find out later that convincing yourself of something isnt the same as actually BEING that something.

I think we need to make that distinction between a falsehood that someone has convinced themselves is true and what is actually true.

Consider, what would it take to turn YOU gay, Goshin?
 
Goshin said:
I don't think this would be any different.
Click to expand...

Stockholm syndrome and "brainwashing" can really only occur in situations where a person is isolated from other people. Hostage situtations and cults are typical scenarios. Abusive relationshps work under the same mechanism. The abuser gets the abused to cut off contact with their family and friends and thus is able to manipulate them into doing whatever they want.

In theory, if you could isolate someone and in time get them to engage in homosexual behavior, but that is rather extreme. It's not like you can just find a straight person and over time manipulate them into wanting them to have sex with you. The isolation aspect is what gets people to develop unhealthy attachments.

As far as manipulators, the key to that is opportunity and urgency. Convince people that they have a once in a life time chance but they only have a limted time to act. However, I'm not sure how that would relate to turning people gay.

Finally, there is the power of authority. If the Milgram experiment taught us anything, it is that humans will do just about anything an authority figures tells them to do. It's also a powerful mechanims for pedophiles to use against children.

In general though, you can't turn someone from straight to gay unless a predispotion already exists. There are some extreme circumstances but I would imagine it is improbable.
 
Hoplite said:
Consider, what would it take to turn YOU gay, Goshin?
Click to expand...

There's not really any point in talking about what it would take to turn me gay, or if it would be possible. If I say "Me?? Never!!" then you'll say "gotcha! so why do you think anyone else..."

If I were to say that it was possible, then I'd get called a "self-hating closet homo" and derided as such.

I've seen this strawman trap before and I don't care to play that game.

I don't believe homosexuality is innate, inborn and unchangeable. There is no proof of such an assertion. No gay-gene has been found, though it has been looked for. No physiological difference has been determined to exist in all gays at birth. Experts differ on when and how "orientation" is fixed. Nothing is proven.
 
How do you explain gay animals?
 
Goshin said:
The two boys I grew up with who later came out as gay, both cited childhood abuse by adult males as the "cause" of their "Gayness". This tended to reinforce the idea, in my mind.
Click to expand...

Most male on male abuse concerning children generally occurs with the older abuser being a male identifying themselves as straight and living a straight lifestyle. My abuser is straight to this day.
 
Goshin said:
I don't believe homosexuality is innate, inborn and unchangeable.
Click to expand...

I don't really understand how you can make that argument. It's a generalization.

If we are going to honestly argue from an empirical position, then while I can't argue that homosexuality is innate for everyone who identifies as gay, you similarly can't argue that it is innate for nobody who identifies as gay. For all you know, it could be innate for some and not for others. You clearly assume that it has to be either everyone or nobody. I would say that assumption is based on your religious motivations rather than on a genuine interest in the reality.
 
Last edited:
Goshin said:
I don't believe homosexuality is innate, inborn and unchangeable. There is no proof of such an assertion. No gay-gene has been found, though it has been looked for. No physiological difference has been determined to exist in all gays at birth. Experts differ on when and how "orientation" is fixed. Nothing is proven.
Click to expand...

And conversely, nothing is disproved, however there are several correlations that point to gayness not being a choice, however, that doesn't mean it's necessarily genetic, it's my belief that it's due to any of several factors encountered in early life.
 
Goshin said:
I don't believe homosexuality is innate, inborn and unchangeable. There is no proof of such an assertion. No gay-gene has been found, though it has been looked for. No physiological difference has been determined to exist in all gays at birth. Experts differ on when and how "orientation" is fixed. Nothing is proven.
Click to expand...

You show me a straight gene, and I'll show you a gay gene.

Seriously, gay people know there gay just how straight people know there straight, and the feelings are the same, except for the same sex, instead of the opposite sex.
 
Your Star said:
You show me a straight gene, and I'll show you a gay gene.
Click to expand...

false dichotimy. straight, based on thousands and thousands of years of reproduction is the "default setting". homosexuality is a deviation from the norm, just as is being left-handed. not saying there is anything wrond with it, just that it is a deviation from norm.

Seriously, gay people know there gay just how straight people know there straight, and the feelings are the same, except for the same sex, instead of the opposite sex.
Click to expand...

I guess that is why there are so many gays that are "confused" and stuggle with their sexuality.
 
OscarB63 said:
false dichotimy. straight, based on thousands and thousands of years of reproduction is the "default setting". homosexuality is a deviation from the norm, just as is being left-handed. not saying there is anything wrond with it, just that it is a deviation from norm.



I guess that is why there are so many gays that are "confused" and stuggle with their sexuality.
Click to expand...
That would be because of a culture of Christian shame and guilt, and bisexual erasure.
 
OscarB63 said:
false dichotimy. straight, based on thousands and thousands of years of reproduction is the "default setting". homosexuality is a deviation from the norm, just as is being left-handed. not saying there is anything wrond with it, just that it is a deviation from norm.



I guess that is why there are so many gays that are "confused" and stuggle with their sexuality.
Click to expand...

And there are just as many (probably more) straights who are "confused" and struggle with their sexuality.
 
So maddow finds some dood from uganda so that she can attack the right? Did I see that correctly?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom