For Those Opposing Gay Marriage: Answer This One Question: How Does It Affect You?

RiverDad · 02-04-09, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

To think that some people feel that hateful and oppressive people should be treated with respect is amazingly bizarre and absolutely disturbing. Further, to justify hate is the mark of the naive and/or ignorant. Logically, this attitude is so filled with leaks that it is astounding that any person would actually think that it was valid and, even worse, that they would mention it out loud, thus labeling themselves so dramatically...

You're making a false equivalence. Homophobia is not equal to hate. Homophobia is an aversion to homosexuals.

razz · 02-04-09, 07:22 PM

Wait...what?

Heart Disease does have genetic bearings but the environmental bearings can range from a high degree of stress to eating unhealthy foods. The difference here is no one chooses to have heart disease and certainly no one can overcome it as they can in regards to homophobia.

Homophobia is simply hate, it isn't a tangible sort of thing like cancer is...although sometimes I believe that those who are fervently homophobia must have some kind of neurological disorder, as do the people who hate African-Americans, Jews, etc

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverDad

You're making a false equivalence. Homophobia is not equal to hate. Homophobia is an aversion to homosexuals.

Let's see if you'll avoid this question again...

Is being "averse" to African-Americans equivalent to hate? In other words, did the Ku Klux Klan actually hate black people or was it simply something they were born with and deserve sympathy for?

RiverDad · 02-04-09, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razz

Wait...what?

Heart Disease does have genetic bearings but the environmental bearings can range from a high degree of stress to eating unhealthy foods. The difference here is no one chooses to have heart disease and certainly no one can overcome it as they can in regards to homophobia.

You're arguing the exact same line used by people who don't think that homosexuality is biological but is simply a choice. It shouldn't matter how you personally feel about the hypothesis, what should matter is that your treat the hypothesis rigorously.

Quote:

Homophobia is simply hate, it isn't a tangible sort of thing like cancer is.

Your persistence in making a false equivalence doesn't make it truer the more your repeat it.

Quote:

Is being "averse" to African-Americans equivalent to hate? In other words, did the Ku Klux Klan actually hate black people or was it simply something they were born with and deserve sympathy for?

Take a look at voluntary segregation in the housing market. People prefer to be amongst those with whom they share the greatest similarity but that doesn't mean that this preference for similarity is born from a wellspring of hatred.

razz · 02-04-09, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Take a look at voluntary segregation in the housing market. People prefer to be amongst those with whom they share the greatest similarity but that doesn't mean that this preference for similarity is born from a wellspring of hatred.

So whether or not hatred for African-Americans by groups like the Ku Klux Klan is something genetic is up for debate? It's 50/50?

Want to know what I think, I think hatred is something that's learned...not a single person here is buying the "homophobia is genetic" argument. RiverDad...give me a break, you can't be that intellectually deficient to actually assume that hatred for homosexuals is something you're born with

RiverDad · 02-04-09, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razz

Who argues that homosexuality is both biological and a choice? I've never heard that before...

You've misread what I wrote "people who don't think that homosexuality is biological but is simply a choice."

Quote:

Want to know what I think, I think hatred is something that's learned...not a single person here is buying the "homophobia is genetic" argument. RiverDad...give me a break, you can't be that intellectually deficient to actually assume that hatred for homosexuals is something you're born with

Or it could be that my training as a scientist gives me a different insight than what you may have. :shrug

BTW, if reliance on the popularity of an idea is the proper benchmark to assess the accuracy of the idea, what was the prevailing wisdom on homosexuality 100 years ago?

independent_thinker2002 · 02-04-09, 08:07 PM

As I said, there is no control. You would need to raise a control group in a society that didn't look down on homosexuals. It's not a surprise that identical twins are more likely to both be influenced by society the same. It has nothing to do with specific fears. This is why the females have the discrepancy that they do. It's societal.

RiverDad · 02-04-09, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002

As I said, there is no control. You would need to raise a control group in a society that didn't look down on homosexuals. It's not a surprise that identical twins are more likely to both be influenced by society the same. It has nothing to do with specific fears. This is why the females have the discrepancy that they do. It's societal.

Where is the control group in the heritability of heart disease study?

independent_thinker2002 · 02-04-09, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverDad

Where is the control group in the heritability of heart disease study?

Hanging out with the strawman you are building.

RiverDad · 02-04-09, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002

Hanging out with the strawman you are building.

Nice dodge. Or was that an Edsel?

independent_thinker2002 · 02-04-09, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverDad

Nice dodge. Or was that an Edsel?

Heart disease has nothing to do with mental/social issues. It was no dodge.

02-04-09, 08:07 PM	#116
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