How men are conditioned to think sexual assault is no big deal

7 Reasons So Many Guys Don?t Understand Sexual Consent

Interesting piece on how we're socially conditioned to think about sex and consent. Amongst other things, it takes a look at some of the most famous movies in history and shows how sexual assault is normalized in them.

Here are the 'lessons':

• #7. "Forcing Yourself On Women Makes Them Love You"
• #6. "Asking Permission Is A Sign Of Weakness"
• #5. "Women Like To Be Pursued, And Thus Always Play 'Hard To Get'"
• #4. "Everything Women Do Is Intended To Stoke Male Hunger"
• #3. "Sexual Assault = Guy In An Alley With A Knife"
• #2. "All Sex Outside Of (Heterosexual) Marriage Is Wrong"
• #1. "Boys Will Be Boys"

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I know it's cracked, but it's not a typical cracked article. Interested in hearing dissenting thoughts, and to see whether people agree whether certain cultural icons do give children the wrong impression of consent.

I request that if you do see something wrong you point out the specifics, rather than just dismissing the entire article. There are separate points in there. Thanks.

I love how this article assumes that only men can sexually assault someone. We all know that's not true.

I don't recall any of those lessons. When was I supposed to learn them exactly?

TheGoverness said:

I love how this article assumes that only men can sexually assault someone. We all know that's not true.

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That's not really the focus of the article though.

Henrin said:

That's not really the focus of the article though.

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I know that, but it still irks me regardless.

Now, because I am so unspeakably old, the film I'm referencing above is from the ancient days of 1980. Society has advanced a great deal since then. Hey, did I mention that when I found that clip on YouTube, the ad below it was for the "Sexy Princess Leia Slave Costume"?

I mean, everybody gets this, right? The fantasy isn't that she's showing skin; the fantasy is that she didn't choose to wear that. She's a princess, she's regal, she's a noble warrior ... and now we're going to masturbate to her wearing a humiliating, skimpy costume that she was forced to put on, presumably under the threat of death by rancor.

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Oh for the love of...

The disgust with that comment is too high for me to say more.

Just damn.

TheGoverness said:

I know that, but it still irks me regardless.

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Ok, but I don't imagine many people think society teaches women it is ok to rape/sexually assault others.

Nilly said:

7 Reasons So Many Guys Don?t Understand Sexual Consent

Interesting piece on how we're socially conditioned to think about sex and consent. Amongst other things, it takes a look at some of the most famous movies in history and shows how sexual assault is normalized in them.

Here are the 'lessons':



I know it's cracked, but it's not a typical cracked article. Interested in hearing dissenting thoughts, and to see whether people agree whether certain cultural icons do give children the wrong impression of consent.

I request that if you do see something wrong you point out the specifics, rather than just dismissing the entire article. There are separate points in there. Thanks.

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All of this is just more "rape culture" nonsense.

I didn't learn about sex by watching movies.

I learned about women and sex via experience; i.e. "the school of hard knocks." I think most people do.

(Heterosexual) Boys don't grow up with an innate disrespect for girls; they just go through phases of sexual development and discovery.

In pre-pubescence, boys often see girls as just oddly shaped boys most of the time...many girls being tomboyish and competitive, while the "girly" girls are often more astute, adult, and domineering during this period.

During puberty boys are typically more concerned about what the hell is happening to their bodies, and beginning to notice and find very interesting those differences in girls bodies that are suddenly popping up. Yet boys don't think of girls as someone to "rape." Just someone to explore these new changes with.

It's also during puberty that boys start learning from experience that girls DO play hard to get; which is understandable because every girl's parents are constantly warning them about boys! So girls flirt, tease, and play games, because they are interested and learning too but they are scared of "going too far."

Boys can and will be more aggressive because they haven't learned that girls don't view sex the way boys do. Boy's learn very quickly that they have something that can make them feel awesomely good and then it's over; they don't realize it's not the same for girls.

Despite that, girls in my experience remain in control. Boy's won't rape them, although they will test the boundaries over and over simply because they can't imagine fatherhood as a risk, they don't see any negatives since they aren't at risk themselves for pregnancy, and they assume girls would like sex too.

I think people make too much of this issue when all it would take IMO is proper sex education at an early age.

Henrin said:

Oh for the love of...

The disgust with that comment is too high for me to say more.

Just damn.

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Cracked is Whack.

Nilly said:

7 Reasons So Many Guys Don?t Understand Sexual Consent

Interesting piece on how we're socially conditioned to think about sex and consent. Amongst other things, it takes a look at some of the most famous movies in history and shows how sexual assault is normalized in them.

Here are the 'lessons':



I know it's cracked, but it's not a typical cracked article. Interested in hearing dissenting thoughts, and to see whether people agree whether certain cultural icons do give children the wrong impression of consent.

I request that if you do see something wrong you point out the specifics, rather than just dismissing the entire article. There are separate points in there. Thanks.

Click to expand...

The issue is that "sexual assault", like "racism" or "misogyny" can mean damned near anything these days. If a guy says "Good Morning" to a woman and she doesn't like the way it sounds he's screwed. Furthermore, if a guy is out with a woman having a few drinks and they're both a little tipsy and flirty then the next day the woman feels guilty the guy is screwed. Hell, if a guy is sitting next to a woman on an airplane and getting a little flirty it might still be an issue 30 years later!

TheGoverness said:

I love how this article assumes that only men can sexually assault someone. We all know that's not true.

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Where exactly does it assume that? Or do you assume it assumes that? I could be wrong (didn't reread the whole thing since your comment) but ok whilst it doesn't mention that female on male sexual violence exists it doesn't say it doesn't, either.

Henrin said:

I don't recall any of those lessons. When was I supposed to learn them exactly?

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They're subconsciously taught, when you watch the likes of Star Wars, Indiana Jones, James Bond. People emulate what they see, and what they see is the lack of consent in those movies, that's the point.

Captain Adverse said:

All of this is just more "rape culture" nonsense.

I didn't learn about sex by watching movies.

I learned about women and sex via experience i.e. the school of hard knocks. I think most people do.

(Heterosexual) Boys don't grow up with an innate disrespect for girls; they just go through phases of sexual development and discovery.

In pre-pubescence, boys often see girls as just oddly shaped boys most of the time...many girls being tomboyish and competitive, and those not are often more astute and adult during this period.

During puberty boys are typically more concerned about what the hell is happening to their bodies, and well as beginning to notice and find very interesting those differences in girls bodies that are suddenly popping up. Yet boys don't think of girls as someone to "rape."

It's during puberty that boys start learning from experience that girls DO play hard to get; which is understandable because every girls' parents are warning them about boys! So girls flirt, tease, and play games, because they are interested and learning too but they are scared of "going too far."

Boys can and will be more aggressive because they haven't learned that girls don't view sex the way boys do. Boy's learn very quickly that they have something that can make them feel awesomely good and then it's over; they don't realize it's not the same for girls.

Despite that, girls in my experience remain in control. Boy's won't rape them, although they will test the boundaries over and over simply because they can't imagine fatherhood as a risk, they don't any risk, and they think girls must like it too.

I think people make too much of this issue when all it would take IMO is proper sex education at an early age.

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This isn't just about learning about sex though. It's about learning about relationships and interactions with people. We've had more pop culture in our face than any prior generation, and that exposure to how women are treated in popular culture undoubtedly has an effect on how people try to live their lives.

I don't think people have an innate disrespect for girls, that's the point, I think that such disrespect is shown to us in society (look at that James Bond/***** Galore scene) and we do what humans do best, emulate it. If a teenage boy who up until now has seen a teenage girl as someone with cooties (and lets face it, all girls have cooties) , goes to watch star wars and sees Han Solo, the hero, force himself on Leia, then he see's that as the thing that you need to do in order to end up with the girl.

Lutherf said:

The issue is that "sexual assault", like "racism" or "misogyny" can mean damned near anything these days. If a guy says "Good Morning" to a woman and she doesn't like the way it sounds he's screwed. Furthermore, if a guy is out with a woman having a few drinks and they're both a little tipsy and flirty then the next day the woman feels guilty the guy is screwed. Hell, if a guy is sitting next to a woman on an airplane and getting a little flirty it might still be an issue 30 years later!

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Obviously there's a grey area, the appropriateness of an action depends on context. But the actions described in the article do not seem appropriate to me at all, even though they're done by the 'hero's in the story (and thus the people that we, especially at young ages, look to emulate). Should we excuse the hero's habit of forcing himself on women if he blows up the death star or stops Dr Evils plan by the rest of the movie? The writers (even if it's subconscious) certainly think so, and we, the adoring audience, seem to think so as well. And that's what I think we should look at revisiting.

Nilly said:

This isn't just about learning about sex though. It's about learning about relationships and interactions with people. We've had more pop culture in our face than any prior generation, and that exposure to how women are treated in popular culture undoubtedly has an effect on how people try to live their lives.

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This is exactly part of the problem. Seeing "sex education" as only about the sex bits.

Proper sex education not only teaches kids about the "mechanical processes," but also about emotions, attractions, signaling, warnings signs, body space, body language, etc..

The problem I have with today's ideology is the trend toward getting and keeping "verbal consent," as if two people are engaging in some sort of contractual arrangement. I remember when this first started being bandied about and the joke was having a signed and dated sex contract with spaces for initials for every step and subcontracts for every different activity for each sexual encounter. Witnessed by a friend from each party.

I also have a problem with this growing idea of regret allowing the female to absolve herself of responsibility and cry rape after the fact.

I guess my root issue is why people think sex, in and of itself, is innately harmful? Forcible and/or drugged nonconsensual sex aside (i.e. rape); why is the mere act of sex turned into a such trauma that it requires this kind of reaction?

Captain Adverse said:

This is exactly part of the problem. Seeing "sex education" as only about the sex bits.

Proper sex education not only teaches kids about the "mechanical processes," but also about emotions, attractions, signaling, warnings signs, body space, body language, etc..

The problem I have with today's ideology is the trend toward getting and keeping "verbal consent," as if two people are engaging in some sort of contractual arrangement.

I also have the problem with this growing idea of regret allowing the female to absolve herself of responsibility and cry rape after the fact.

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OK great, that's fine, I completely agree, and the article talks a lot about how we need to make teaching consent as part of sex education

In the meantime, to act like it's crazy that a particular guy doesn't see the clear line between consent and assault is misguided. The culture has intentionally blurred those lines and trained that man to feel shame for erring on either side. You have to start teaching kids that consent matters from Day One.

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Right now, we learn about the emotions, attractions, signaling etc from pop culture around us (sure we learn it in person too, but people are becoming increasingly isolated - and pop culture is taking an ever bigger role in dictating how we handle relationships).

The 'cry rape' thing is a difficult issue, which I want to try to steer this thread away from, I can understand concerns there. I don't see what your issue with verbal consent is though. Sure it's not realistic to get 'verbal consent' in all situations, but if we can teach our youth that verbal consent is important, then whilst it might seem kinda weird of a thing to do at first (things get difficult when you consider consent can be physical and/or implied) if it cuts down on the amount of incidents of sexual assault and rape then surely that is a good thing?

What's the worse downside, that someone has to ask a awkward question that kind of kills the mood for a bit or someone makes the wrong assumption which leads to a whole rabbit hole of sexual assault and he did/she said which, I think you can agree, doesn't end well for anyone, and is horrible for everyone to deal with.

Nilly said:

Where exactly does it assume that? Or do you assume it assumes that? I could be wrong (didn't reread the whole thing since your comment) but ok whilst it doesn't mention that female on male sexual violence exists it doesn't say it doesn't, either.



They're subconsciously taught, when you watch the likes of Star Wars, Indiana Jones, James Bond. People emulate what they see, and what they see is the lack of consent in those movies, that's the point.

This isn't just about learning about sex though. It's about learning about relationships and interactions with people. We've had more pop culture in our face than any prior generation, and that exposure to how women are treated in popular culture undoubtedly has an effect on how people try to live their lives.

I don't think people have an innate disrespect for girls, that's the point, I think that such disrespect is shown to us in society (look at that James Bond/***** Galore scene) and we do what humans do best, emulate it. If a teenage boy who up until now has seen a teenage girl as someone with cooties (and lets face it, all girls have cooties) , goes to watch star wars and sees Han Solo, the hero, force himself on Leia, then he see's that as the thing that you need to do in order to end up with the girl.

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How many guys ever really see girls as having cooties? Was I the only one really interested in girls in grade school? I mean, the girl I would date throughout much of my time in school I meet and fell for in fifth grade and years before that I was flirting with the girls in my class.

Nilly said:

I don't see what your issue with verbal consent is though. Sure it's not realistic to get 'verbal consent' in all situations, but if we can teach our youth that verbal consent is important, then whilst it might seem kinda weird of a thing to do at first (things get difficult when you consider consent can be physical and/or implied) if it cuts down on the amount of incidents of sexual assault and rape then surely that is a good thing?

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Forgive me, but I don't see how encouraging verbal consent would somehow cut down on the incidents of sexual assault.

Rapists won't give a damn whether or not they consented verbally to it.

Henrin said:

How many guys ever really see girls as having cooties? Was I the only one really interested in girls in grade school? I mean, the girl I would date throughout much of my time in school I meet and fell for in fifth grade and years before that I was flirting with the girls in my class.

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So I was using cooties tongue in cheek lol. But that said, I went to all boys schools my entire life and didn't really interact much with girls (outside my sisters) when I was young so I can't speak to that. Like to think I still turned out ok though.

LOL. I just found that Han/Leia kiss scene on YouTube, and the first comment (with 115 likes) that comes up is "Why dont guys do this anymore like come on".

I think I know why.

TheGoverness said:

Forgive me, but I don't see how encouraging verbal consent would somehow cut down on the incidents of sexual assault.

Rapists won't give a damn whether or not they consented verbally to it.

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Point #3

The vast majority of sexual assaults don't happen in a dark alleyway behind trash dumpsters by men in masks.

They happen between friends. Between people that know each other, and to an extent trust each other. And ultimately, misunderstand each other. So when we teach people to think about consent, when they're in a bedroom with someone of the opposite sex and things are getting a little frisky, having consent at the front of peoples minds absolutely is a tool to stop anything unwanted from happening. If you talk to rape victims, you'll find that a large percentage of the incidents could really have been resolved if discussion about consent had been clear.

People don't talk about consent being important for no reason. They talk about it because when they talk to victims of rape, consent is the common denominator that, if we attempt to fix, could help in resolving the problem.

We used to think that the solution to sexual assualt was rape alarms and emergency points with contacts to police, but guess what, when we installed them, we didn't see incidents of rape decrease. The very definition of rape is 'sex without consent'. Not 'sex without consent by a guy with a ski mask', so working on the 'consent' part of the equation absolutely is key.

Nilly said:

Right now, we learn about the emotions, attractions, signaling etc from pop culture around us (sure we learn it in person too, but people are becoming increasingly isolated - and pop culture is taking an ever bigger role in dictating how we handle relationships).

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I don't buy this necessarily. As I said I learned from experience as much as by observation. Young people learn fairly quickly that what they see in movies and on TV seldom translates into real world encounters with anyone, much less someone from the opposite sex.

IMO people learn from peers, parents, and their own growing experience, with pop culture having an effect only on the truly novice players. :shrug:

Nilly said:

I don't see what your issue with verbal consent is though. Sure it's not realistic to get 'verbal consent' in all situations, but if we can teach our youth that verbal consent is important, then whilst it might seem kinda weird of a thing to do at first (things get difficult when you consider consent can be physical and/or implied) if it cuts down on the amount of incidents of sexual assault and rape then surely that is a good thing?

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The problem is, seeking "verbal consent" is not considered "romantic," or "emotional;" at least as far as most women seem to be concerned.

Think about it.

At what point is a boy supposed to ask this when a girl who hears such a question verbalized is more likely than not to think the mood is ruined because "all you want is to get into my pants!" That's real world mood swings men soon learn women turn on and off as quickly as a light switch.

What's wrong with the standard practice, which usually works...of simply saying "No?" A woman is in control, and when she says NO most men stop right away. Now some might wait for a firmer No; but only a true rapist will completely ignore all verbal and physical resistance at this point.

Teaching "No means NO!" is much easier to understand for men than trying to get and keep a yes.

TheGoverness said:

LOL. I just found that Han/Leia kiss scene on YouTube, and the first comment (with 115 likes) that comes up is "Why dont guys do this anymore like come on".

I think I know why.

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The same commenter also says:

i said so up here but i meant like something a boyfriend or a crush would do. I agree, if it were a stranger its weird

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The article actually comments on this:

Girls like guys who are attentive enough to know what she wants before she says it. He shouldn't need to be told why she's mad at him, or what she'd like for her anniversary, or whether or not she's ready for the next step. Emotional intelligence is sexy, and there's nothing sexier than a guy who cares enough to pay attention to the subtle cues.

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And it's absolutely true. But there's a difference between liking someone who just comes up and kisses you, and liking someone who has the emotional intelligence to understand that you want to be kissed. Not everyone has that emotional intelligence.

Women have always tended to like men who were a tad over assertive, it kept them interested, it was a challenge.

Nobody wanted to rub all the rough edges off men.

Women generally handled men just fine.

A few did not, their stories tragic.

In comes HOLLYWOOD.

TheGoverness said:

LOL. I just found that Han/Leia kiss scene on YouTube, and the first comment (with 115 likes) that comes up is "Why dont guys do this anymore like come on".

I think I know why.

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Yup, by a user called Maggie Klein. I've said for a long time now that feminists should stop speaking for what women think.

Feminist men are usually so far off the mark it wonders into the zone of cluelessness, and feminist women are usually so full of **** that it borders on self denial.

Captain Adverse said:

I don't buy this necessarily. As I said I learned from experience as much as by observation. Young people learn fairly quickly that what they see in movies and on TV seldom translates into real world encounters with anyone, much less someone from the opposite sex.

IMO people learn from peers, parents, and their own growing experience, with pop culture having an effect only on the truly novice players. :shrug:

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Well I completely disagree here. This is why we call people in the media role models. And I'm not just talking about actors. I'm talking about politicians, sportspeople, anyone who's in the limelight.

Captain Adverse said:

The problem is, seeking "verbal consent" is not considered "romantic," or "emotional;"at least as far as most women seem to be concerned.

Think about it.

At what point is a boy supposed to ask this when a girl who hears such a question verbalized is more likely than not to think the mood is ruined because "all you want is to get into my pants!" That's real world mood swings men soon learn women turn on and off as quickly as a light switch.

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The article specifically talks about this. Go back and read it.



It essentially says that it's true, it's not sexy, but that is continually reinforced by things in culture (see, the new girl clip above this sentence). This is why we should try to reverse that stigma and make it sexy. Part of the effort of people who talk about rape culture is trying to drill in the message that Consent is sexy.

Consent Is Sexy

Captain Adverse said:

What's wrong with the standard practice, which usually works...of simply saying "No?" A woman is in control, when she says NO, most men stop right away, some might wait for a firmer No; but only a true rapist will completely ignore all verbal and physical resistance at this point.

Teaching "No means NO!" is much easier to understand for men than trying to get and keep a yes.

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Absolutely, we should be teaching that no is no.

I can certainly say that no doesn't always mean no though. No can turn into a 'oh comeon, just this once' or a 'don't be so frigid' or a 'but you look so sexy you're turning me on' which eventually turns into something that has an aura of consensualness but really isn't.

Henrin said:

Yup, by a user called Maggie Klein. I've said for a long time now that feminists should stop speaking for what women think.

Feminist men are usually so far off the mark it wonders into the zone of cluelessness, and feminist women are usually so full of **** that it borders on self denial.

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Read post 21.

Nilly said:

7 Reasons So Many Guys Don?t Understand Sexual Consent

Interesting piece on how we're socially conditioned to think about sex and consent. Amongst other things, it takes a look at some of the most famous movies in history and shows how sexual assault is normalized in them.

Here are the 'lessons':



I know it's cracked, but it's not a typical cracked article. Interested in hearing dissenting thoughts, and to see whether people agree whether certain cultural icons do give children the wrong impression of consent.

I request that if you do see something wrong you point out the specifics, rather than just dismissing the entire article. There are separate points in there. Thanks.

Click to expand...

I do see something wrong.

First the title. Men do understand sexual consent. Making sweeping generalizations such as this is an indication of prejudice.


#7 No movie or pop culture phenomenon i have ever seen says forcing yourself in women makes them like you.

#6 Never seen the "asking permission is a sign of weakness" theme in a pop culture theme before.

#5 Women do like to new pursued. There are entire industries built around women making themselves more desirable. They have flourished and continue to do so today.

#4 Again never heard that crap about stroking male hunger.

#3 Maybe in the 1950s, have these idiots ever watched an episode of law and order special victims unit? The victims can be male the assailants can be female, it can be your siblings your parents or your spouse.

Thus is completely backward.

#2, there right, this is common in our culture. No clue how that factors into consent

#1Boys can't be girls and that is all there is left.


The problem I see is that from the title and all five points (2 of them had nothing to do with consent.) Is that it is complete misanthropic horse **** written to gain an "oh yeah" from mysanderous bigots thay call themselves feminists.