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Respect for Men

Of course miscommunication happens. That doesn't somehow mean we need major change or something. The man makes a move in and the woman says no or turns her head or does something similar and the situation is over. What you have been talking about this whole time in now TWO threads is the asshole that wouldn't obey your rules anyway.

I would say that 30-90 million women experiencing sexual assault is pretty good reason for major change.

What about when a dude makes a move and the woman says no or turns her head but her other body language is (apparently) makes it obvious (to you) that she likes it? Is it ok to carry on then?

Or, maaaybe..... like you say, "miscommunication happens". Maaaaaybe.... like Josie says, "you have to learn how to talk to your partner". Maybe, when someone says stop, pushes off or turns away, no matter what you think about the situation or read into body language, you don't really know what the other person is thinking and should just ask. Or would that ruin too much of the fun??
 
But do you agree?

Earlier you were all 'everyone' can read body language, it's 'obvious'. Now you understand that miscommunications happen. You seem conflicted on the issue. Like how you're conflicted as to whether no means no or if it means carry on.

Let me remind you:

Old Josie:




New Josie:

The argument that making sure that both people are on the same page is bad because it ruins someone's fetish is ridiculous, anyway.
 
But do you agree?

Earlier you were all 'everyone' can read body language, it's 'obvious'. Now you understand that miscommunications happen. You seem conflicted on the issue. Like how you're conflicted as to whether no means no or if it means carry on.

YOU don't agree with it - by your own admission, right? You don't ask your girl permission to come up behind her and slip your arms around her waist, do you? You don't ask her if it's okay if you can rub her shoulders or give her a foot massage. You don't ask your girl permission if you can kiss her or initiate sex. Do you? Of course not. Why is that?

The above is discussing established relationships where you know the person very well and trust them. If a stranger came up to me and wrapped his arms around my waist, rubbed my shoulders, gave me a foot massage (that actually happened - it was creepy) or just kissed me out of the blue -- that would be weird, gross and maybe scary. None of my posts are about how strangers should act toward each other. All of them are about two people who are getting to know each other, out on a date, etc. Reading body language is how every human on earth operates in these situations.

Literally no one has a date like this:

Man: "Can I tell you that you're pretty?" "Can I brush your hand with mine?" "Do you mind if I put my hand here on your knee?" "Can I gaze into your eyes?" "May I put my arm around you?" "Can I open this door for you?" "Do you mind if I put my lips on yours?" "Can I use tongue or is that going too far?" "Do you mind if I grab you closer while we kiss or should I not?"

I mean, come ON.

That's not how humans operate. YOU have never had a date like that and neither has anyone else on this planet.

Now, miscommunication happens all the time in relationships -- including established ones. If you read her wrong, you're going to hear about it - whether that's physical intimacy, taking out the trash, raising the kids, money, etc. She can also read you wrong -- maybe she thinks you're mad at her when you're really just exhausted and need to just be alone.

To sum up -- no one acts like you THINK they should act on dates. Not even you.
 
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The argument that making sure that both people are on the same page is bad because it ruins someone's fetish is ridiculous, anyway.

What? What fetish?
 
YOU don't agree with it - by your own admission, right? You don't ask your girl permission to come up behind her and slip your arms around her waist, do you? You don't ask her if it's okay if you can rub her shoulders or give her a foot massage. You don't ask your girl permission if you can kiss her or initiate sex. Do you? Of course not. Why is that?

The above is discussing established relationships where you know the person very well and trust them. If a stranger came up to me and wrapped his arms around my waist, rubbed my shoulders, gave me a foot massage (that actually happened - it was creepy) or just kissed me out of the blue -- that would be weird, gross and maybe scary. None of my posts are about how strangers should act toward each other. All of them are about two people who are getting to know each other, out on a date, etc. Reading body language is how every human on earth operates in these situations.

Literally no one has a date like this:

Man: "Can I tell that you're pretty?" "Can I brush your hand with mine?" "Do you mind if I put my hand here on your knee?" "Can I gaze into your eyes?" "May I put my arm around you?" "Can I open this door for you?" "Do you mind if I put my lips on yours?" "Can I use tongue or is that going too far?" "Do you mind if I grab you closer while we kiss or should I not?"

I mean, come ON.

That's not how humans operate. YOU have never had a date like that and neither has anyone else on this planet.

Now, miscommunication happens all the time in relationships -- including established ones. If you read her wrong, you're going to hear about it - whether that's physical intimacy, taking out the trash, raising the kids, money, etc. She can also read you wrong -- maybe she thinks you're mad at her when you're really just exhausted and need to just be alone.

To sum up -- no one acts like you THINK they should act on dates. Not even you.

What a dumb strawman.
 
We men are very good at doing things.
 
What a dumb strawman.

No, it's not. You want consent be asked for, which means everything needs to be asked for. He can't very well put his hand on a part of her body without asking because according to you there might be miscommunication issue and that would be sexual assault.
 
No, it's not. You want consent be asked for, which means everything needs to be asked for. He can't very well put his hand on a part of her body without asking because according to you there might be miscommunication issue and that would be sexual assault.

So where exactly did I say that any type of physical contact means sexual assault?

I've been quite clear in my posts that these things are contextual.
 
So where exactly did I say that any type of physical contact means sexual assault?

I've been quite clear in my posts that these things are contextual.

Ok, so lets say I'm kissing a girl and I touch her body. Are you sure I have permission for that? How are you sure I have permission?
 
Ok, so lets say I'm kissing a girl and I touch her body. Are you sure I have permission for that? How are you sure I have permission?

I'm not.

What don't you get about me saying that it's contextual.
 
What a dumb strawman.

How is it a "strawman"? You yourself linked to that creepy, Orwellian "Consent is Sexy" reprogramming regime, and according to it, it's proper -- it's SEXY! -- to do exactly what she said.

She's also right about what you said about you and your girl.
 
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