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LGBT, Not Born That Way?

brothern said:
You need to rewatch your video.

Literally Dr. Paul McHugh says, "The assumption that science has given us full answers and it is complete, is closing off debate about what further science is needed, what the nature of the contemporary science really is."

To which you declare,



Like, did that go into one ear of yours and out the other?
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chromium said:
CT how can you expect anyone to listen to your "evidence" when you don't bother to do so yourself?
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I wasn't making my statement from the video.

The Atlantis said:
Executive Summary
Lawrence S. Mayer, Paul R. McHugh
This report presents a careful summary and an up-to-date explanation of research — from the biological, psychological, and social sciences — related to sexual orientation and gender identity. It is offered in the hope that such an exposition can contribute to our capacity as physicians, scientists, and citizens to address health issues faced by LGBT populations within our society.

Some key findings:

Part One: Sexual Orientation

● The understanding of sexual orientation as an innate, biologically fixed property of human beings — the idea that people are “born that way” — is not supported by scientific evidence.
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CriticalThought said:
New research review finds "no scientific evidence" to support the "born that way" view of human sexuality and gender.

Number 50 ~ Fall 2016 - The New Atlantis



Biased propaganda or legitimate review of literature?
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Eh. It seems to make intuitive sense to me that "born that way" could be a real thing. At the same time, however, I'm skeptical that this is always necessarily the case, as some people would claim.

I'll likely get my head taken off for suggesting it, but I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that, for at least some people, Homosexual behavior is likely just a form of sexual perversion, derived from some underlying psychological issue, like a great many other assorted "fetishes." After all, I'm pretty sure that most (if not ALL) people who get caught screwing goats, or have a preference for donning S&M gear, probably cannot wave it away by claiming that they were simply "born that way." I really don't see why the same could not be said to be the case for a certain portion of the LGBT community.

The simple fact of the matter is that Human beings are weird, often nasty, little creatures, who have something of a talent for finding new and ever-more excessive ways of entertaining themselves. Rubbing one's private parts on something to which they do not necessarily feel biological/instinctual attraction would be far from the strangest thing we've come up with in this regard.
 
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Gathomas88 said:
Eh. It seems to make intuitive sense to me that "born that way" could be a real thing. At the same time, however, I'm skeptical that this is always necessarily the case, as some people would claim.

I'll likely get my head taken off for suggesting it, but I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that, for at least some people, Homosexual behavior is likely just a form of sexual perversion, derived from some underlying psychological issue, like a great many other assorted "fetishes." After all, I'm pretty sure that most (if not ALL) people who get caught screwing goats, or have a preference for donning S&M gear, probably cannot wave it away by claiming that they were simply "born that way." As such, I really don't see why the same could not be said to be the case for a certain portion of the LGBT community.

The simple fact of the matter is that Human beings are weird, often nasty, little creatures, who have something of a talent for finding new and ever-more excessive ways of entertaining themselves. Rubbing one's private parts on something to which they do not necessarily feel biological/instinctual attraction would be far from the strangest thing we've come up with in this regard.
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I can't say I disagree but I wonder if the inverse is true. Are there gay folk who have a fetish for the opposite side?
 
Gaztopian said:
Or, a hetersosexal is much more likely to come out as homosexual if he grows up in a culture that embraces homosexuality.
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oh REALLY, and why would he do that, because he has 0 luck with the ladies? Seriously is there any force on earth that could make you bed down with the same sex? No? Then why would you make this accusation of others?

And if this were remotely true, rates of homosexuality would've skyrocketed in recent years. Instead it seems to taper off right around 5%

Not that you voiced much objection back when homosexuals were routinely 'coming out' as heterosexual, having to hide who they were to please others
 
Gathomas88 said:
Eh. It seems to make intuitive sense to me that "born that way" could be a real thing. At the same time, however, I'm skeptical that this is always necessarily the case, as some people would claim.

I'll likely get my head taken off for suggesting it, but I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that, for at least some people, Homosexual behavior is likely just a form of sexual perversion, derived from some underlying psychological issue, like a great many other assorted "fetishes." After all, I'm pretty sure that most (if not ALL) people who get caught screwing goats, or have a preference for donning S&M gear, probably cannot wave it away by claiming that they were simply "born that way." I really don't see why the same could not be said to be the case for a certain portion of the LGBT community.

The simple fact of the matter is that Human beings are weird, often nasty, little creatures, who have something of a talent for finding new and ever-more excessive ways of entertaining themselves. Rubbing one's private parts on something to which they do not necessarily feel biological/instinctual attraction would be far from the strangest thing we've come up with in this regard.
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Well when you're talking about someone whose only attractions EVER are to the same sex, and from the ripe old age of 11-12, this is not merely a fetish and it's not something that's going to change.
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: then the argument is incorrect. Some may be - but there is far too much evidence out there that individual experiences and cultural impact deeply shape our sexuality.
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Ok then, why do children raised in homes and environments (like certain strictly religious homes) that are hostile to homosexuality still come out as being gay knowing they'll likely be condemned and maybe even rejected for it by many people they love? Why would anyone make that choice?
 
X Factor said:
Ok then, why do children raised in homes and environments (like certain strictly religious homes) that are hostile to homosexuality still come out as being gay knowing they'll likely be condemned and maybe even rejected for it by many people they love? Why would anyone make that choice?
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:shrug: I wouldn't say that in each case it is a matter of full individual choice whether or not one ends up desiring homosexual relations. My point is that the "oh well, it's just a choice, like whether or not to wear shoes or sandals" is as artificial and matches our experience and understanding about as well as the "it's all predetermined genetics, and there's no room for impact of personal experience or cultural pressures".

Human sexuality is multivariate and malleable. That means it can be molded by our choices and the choices of others, as well as individual predilections.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
X Factor said:
Ok then, why do children raised in homes and environments (like certain strictly religious homes) that are hostile to homosexuality still come out as being gay knowing they'll likely be condemned and maybe even rejected for it by many people they love? Why would anyone make that choice?
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Of course you've hit on the giant hole in their argument - specifically why would a little kid who has everything going for them make a decision like this? At which some genius will insist that lots of kids exhibit out of control behavior, some even the early signs of serial killer, anything to keep the blame on the kid and not the family who abandons them
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: I wouldn't say that in each case it is a matter of full individual choice whether or not one ends up desiring homosexual relations. My point is that the "oh well, it's just a choice, like whether or not to wear shoes or sandals" is as artificial and matches our experience and understanding about as well as the "it's all predetermined genetics, and there's no room for impact of personal experience or cultural pressures".

Human sexuality is multivariate and malleable. That means it can be molded by our choices and the choices of others, as well as individual predilections.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
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all i see here is dodging the question except for throwing in some random platitudes that have never been remotely supported by research. I've never even heard bisexuals claim that it's malleable, for one, and there's been studies across species and even twins separated at birth. You're trying to make it seem more complex than it is, i can only guess because the simplicity scares you, undermines your values
 
AGENT J said:
Only if he is already bisexual and or hiding his homosexuality LOL
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Is that right? So much irony in that statement, considering the subject of this topic.
 
cpwill said:
Or, a human being is more likely to reflect their culture and individual experiences in their sexuality.
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I want you outta here with that common sense of yours.
 
Absentglare said:
That's an obvious contradiction.
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The only way for my statement to be contradictory is if we were to accept the born that way proposition, a proposition that not only lacks scientific evidence, but also observational one. What I find amusing in this topic is how everyone is regurgitating the born that way proposition in a topic citing a research review that rejects it.
 
Gaztopian said:
Is that right? So much irony in that statement, considering the subject of this topic.
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Yes that right LMAO no irony at all only your ignorance of the topic.
Unless you are claiming that i could lock you in a room for a few months, make yo watch gay porn and all of a sudden you are gay or bi? is that what you are claiming? are you claiming that circumstances could make you a homosexual?

who's waiting for the dodge and deflection? :)
:popcorn2:
 
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MrWonka said:
Who cares? It shouldn't even be a relevant question. What matters is how is it harmful to anybody other than those who are that way? Their way of life whether it is a choice or not does not in anyway effect the lives of others around them. Therefore others have no right to tell them what they are.
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In Obergefell, Chief Justice Roberts repeated a quip once made by a renowned federal judge, Henry Friendly. Playing off Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes' famous observation in his dissent in Lochner in 1905 that "the Fourteenth Amendment does not enact Mr. Herbert Spencer's Social Statics," Friendly noted that the Constitution no more does that than it enacts John Stuart Mill's On Liberty, the work in which Mill proposed his "harm principle." That is, whether a law is constitutional does not necessarily depend on whether the act it prohibits is harmful to some other person. The Supreme Court has never held that laws are unconstitutional just because the crimes they penalize have no particular and easily identifiable victim.
 
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chromium said:
oh REALLY, and why would he do that, because he has 0 luck with the ladies?
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I don't know why he'd do that, nor do you, just like neither of us knows why a man or a woman develops an attachment to a certain paraphilia. No matter how fierce the attachment is, we don't frivolously and ignorantly invoke science to sanction it.

Seriously is there any force on earth that could make you bed down with the same sex? No? Then why would you make this accusation of others?
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As far as I'm concerned, no, I don't imagine there's a force on earth that could make me do that. Others, however, proved otherwise, and I do them no injustice when I hold them accountable for their actions.

And if this were remotely true, rates of homosexuality would've skyrocketed in recent years. Instead it seems to taper off right around 5%
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Acceptance of homosexuality in the U.S is a fresh affair; it'd be improper to use it as a gauge. Countries with a longer history and more established tradition of acceptance of homosexuality are the benchmark. In a recent YouGov poll, nearly half of British youth profess not to belong to either ends of the sexual spectrum, but to be somewhere in the middle. The percentage is much lower among older British generations.(LINK)That is to say, longer exposure to a certain societal view/practice from an early age greatly biases human behavior. It's unfortunate that I have to explain this to those that proclaim themselves the blessed enlightened.

Not that you voiced much objection back when homosexuals were routinely 'coming out' as heterosexual, having to hide who they were to please others
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No one comes out "heterosexual"; we're so by nature. As such, why would I object to people for being that?
 
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Gaztopian said:
I don't know why he'd do that, nor do you, just like neither of us knows why a man or a woman develops an attachment to a certain paraphilia. No matter how fierce the attachment is, we don't frivolously and ignorantly invoke science to sanction it.



As far as I'm concerned, no, I don't imagine there's a force on earth that could make me do that. Others, however, proved otherwise, and I do them no injustice when I hold them accountable for their actions.



Acceptance of homosexuality in the U.S is a fresh affair; it'd be improper to use it as a gauge. Countries with a longer history and more established tradition of acceptance of homosexuality are the benchmark. In a recent YouGov poll, nearly half of British youth profess not to belong to either ends of the sexual spectrum, but to be somewhere in the middle. The percentage is much lower among older British generations.(LINK)That is to say, longer exposure to a certain societal view/practice from an early age greatly biases human behavior. It's unfortunate that I have to explain this to those that proclaim themselves the blessed enlightened.



No one comes out "heterosexual"; we're so by nature. As such, why would I object to people for being that?
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so others CHOOSE their sexuality but its impossible for you?
and hetersexual orenation is nature but everything else is a choice . . just not for you . .
LMAO
that sure is some awesomely entertaining, illogical, dishonest, retarded fantasy right there!!! Thanks for the laugh. :laughat:
 
CriticalThought said:
New research review finds "no scientific evidence" to support the "born that way" view of human sexuality and gender.

Number 50 ~ Fall 2016 - The New Atlantis



Biased propaganda or legitimate review of literature?
Click to expand...

I read Dr Paul McHugh as a co-author and all I could think of was a car falling apart, big red noses and confetti being thrown to clown music followed by Dionne Warwick singing 'Walk on By'.
 
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