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Transgender Woman Arrested for Taking Pictures in Target Changing Room

So let's start over. Tell me one thing which I have said which you consider to be a lie. Just one. You can do that, can't you? So far, I haven't called you a liar have I? So come on, go for it.
 
Jane said:
Wait! Are you saying that when I asked for an example of something I said which was a lie or whatever, you picked out the first thing in the thread that someone else said that bothered you and THAT was your example. Come on now, you're just playing now, right?
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Wow now you are just desperate and its showing really bad. That's what you asked for. I made a GENERAL post, YOU qouted it and asked for examples, the post YOU qouted was not.

I made post 338.
LaylaWindu said:
Good god . . . . .Reading this thread and some of the comments here actually makes my stomach hurt. I'll never understand how some people can be so uneducated about a topic and spew such hateful, ignorant an bigoted things. At least the majority like I qouted above seem get it. Some of the stuff I read here against transgenders is literally crazy IMO Kudos to the people above and them handing people their asses in this thread.
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It did not quote YOU, it qouted people who are not bigoted and have made honests posts. YOU then qouted me in post 392 and said this:
Jane said:
Can you give a few examples?
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So now explain why you are acting like I didn't do exactly what you said? :) Your posts are getting worse and more and more dishonest.
 
Jane said:
So let's start over. Tell me one thing which I have said which you consider to be a lie. Just one. You can do that, can't you? So far, I haven't called you a liar have I? So come on, go for it.
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No there's no starting over, you have deflected and ran from posts and desperately tried to avoid the many posts that show you are wrong. You haven't shown any want to be honest or stay on topic so we we are at is we are waiting for you to defend and support your posts. That is still where we are at. Until you can do that you have nothign and will continue flop around like a fish out of water. So now you have to put up. Choice is yours. The rest of us will continue not irrationally fearing transgenders nor will we discriminate against them.
 
Ah, so I thought you were talking about me, but you were talking about EVERYONE in this thread who has expressed an opinion different from you. Okay, there's where I was wrong. Sorry. Want to start over with ANYTHING I've said with which you disagree?
 
LaylaWindu said:
No there's no starting over, you have deflected and ran from posts and desperately tried to avoid the many posts that show you are wrong. You haven't shown any want to be honest or stay on topic so we we are at is we are waiting for you to defend and support your posts. That is still where we are at. Until you can do that you have nothign and will continue flop around like a fish out of water. So now you have to put up. Choice is yours. The rest of us will continue not irrationally fearing transgenders nor will we discriminate against them.
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Okay. Well if you ever feel like talking about anything specific that I have actually said, feel free to ask or call me on it. I'm getting the feeling that you're not really that type of poster. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't want to waste any more time with generalizations. Thanks for the chat.
 
Jane said:
Ah, so I thought you were talking about me, but you were talking about EVERYONE in this thread who has expressed an opinion different from you. Okay, there's where I was wrong. Sorry. Want to start over with ANYTHING I've said with which you disagree?
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How could you possible think I was only talking about you when I didn't quote you? I don't believe I agree with really anything you have said because none of it makes sense. It's simply irrational and I don't support the discrimination.
 
Jane said:
Okay. Well if you ever feel like talking about anything specific that I have actually said, feel free to ask or call me on it. I'm getting the feeling that you're not really that type of poster. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't want to waste any more time with generalizations. Thanks for the chat.
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That's what I thought another deflection, runaway, bye bye. Your want to discriminate is noted.
 
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calamity said:
Rare or not, there it is, right in the op. Exactly what people predicted would happen happened. Why run from it?
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Because their prediction was that it would increase. It had already happened. No one said it never happened nor that it wouldn't happen again. We said you can't show that such policies would cause any significant increase in the occurrence of such instances.

This is not really a new policy. Many stores have this policy in place, and others don't monitor such areas so anyone could enter anyway. We have said that barring entry based on possible gender is stupid. There's a higher potential for a lawsuit if you get it wrong than even if you have instances like this because this is the fault of the person who did it, not the place the person did it in.


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calamity said:
No, just ban men from entering women's restrooms, showers and locker rooms.
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And how do you plan to enforce these bans? A business such as Target has no right to know the legal gender or sex of a person using a restroom. Pecker checkers would be a huge violation of privacy.


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calamity said:
Depends on your definition. Biologically, they most certainly are men.
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Since many aren't, especially after they start the transition but even some before because there are plenty of different biological anomalies our there, then you really have no way to enforce this without some violation of privacy.


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LaylaWindu said:
1.) How could you possible think I was only talking about you when I didn't quote you? 2.) I don't believe I agree with really anything you have said because none of it makes sense. 3.) It's simply irrational and I don't support the discrimination.
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1.) Sorry (again). My mistake. You sure don't seem to take "yes" for an answer very graciously. Or at all. :?

2.) You don't have to agree with anything I've said. REFUTE something specific I've said with which you disagree. If you can.

3.) Are you able to name anything I have posted here that could be characterized as discriminatory. Name just one thing. You can refer to the laws of any state or locality in the country.
 
Jane said:
1.) Sorry (again). My mistake. You sure don't seem to take "yes" for an answer very graciously. Or at all. :?

2.) You don't have to agree with anything I've said. REFUTE something specific I've said with which you disagree. If you can.

3.) Are you able to name anything I have posted here that could be characterized as discriminatory. Name just one thing. You can refer to the laws of any state or locality in the country.
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Not all discrimination is illegal. And in some parts of the country, discrimination in use of restrooms, changing rooms, etc. based on gender or sex violates their public accommodation/antidiscrimination laws. Regardless if it does or not though, again discrimination doesn't have to be illegal to still be discrimination. Not allowing certain types of people in your house or around your kids is discrimination, but it doesn't make it bad in itself. If you are basing your discrimination off of irrational fear or prejudice of some kind however that is generally considered bad/wrong.


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Renae said:
So you claim it's about "men" but really you're targeting trans. Considering all the hoopla over Voter ID Laws being overturned... The same legal application should be used to nullify this idiocy.

Since I cannot have SRS YET, haven't done the year, don't have the funds yet... Should I be forced, if looking otherwise female to use the mens room?

Does that make sense?

No. I'll use the ladies room TYVM
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If you pass, no problem. If you're challenged, no problem either. You want both: to be allowed in whether you pass as a woman or not and not to be challenged.
 
roguenuke said:
Since many aren't, especially after they start the transition but even some before because there are plenty of different biological anomalies our there, then you really have no way to enforce this without some violation of privacy.


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I don't need it enforced en masse. I'm good with women who are suspicious of a man in the women's restroom calling security, them questioning him and calling the cops if he is not a she. That should suffice.
 
Jane said:
2.) Could you point out where I advocated making "ordinary bathroom use" illegal? No, I thought not.
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If a trans woman isn't allowed into the women's restroom because she still has a penis, and by some people because she once had a penis, then this is exactly what you advocating.
 
maquiscat said:
If a trans woman isn't allowed into the women's restroom because she still has a penis, and by some people because she once had a penis, then this is exactly what you advocating.
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I find it funny that being of the opinion that people using the women's bathrooms, showers and locker rooms should not have a penis is considered an extreme position. The absurdity of it is beyond compare.
 
maquiscat said:
If a trans woman isn't allowed into the women's restroom because she still has a penis, and by some people because she once had a penis, then this is exactly what you advocating.
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Didn't you say days ago that you had some great stats to really really really destroy some argument or other I had made? But the dog ate your homework or something. How about just be honest that you came up bust and we can go on from there?
 
Jane said:
Ah, so I thought you were talking about me, but you were talking about EVERYONE in this thread who has expressed an opinion different from you.
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Jeez, could you be any more dishonest? She hasn't criticized EVERYONE who has a different opinion. Why are you just making stuff up? Is it because you're embarrassed to be on the same side as the hateful bigots who spew the sort of filth Layla quoted?

Okay, there's where I was wrong. Sorry. Want to start over with ANYTHING I've said with which you disagree?
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This thread is not about you

Jane said:
Okay. Well if you ever feel like talking about anything specific that I have actually said, feel free to ask or call me on it.
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I'm calling you on your BS accusation that Layla was crticizing EVERYONE who has an opinion that's different than hers. Can you quote where she does that?
 
I am a father of 2 young daughter. At times I would have them by myself out at the mall and such. When they needed to go to the restroom, guess which one I used? The womans. A man escorting young girls into the womans restroom. You know how man people said anything? One. And she said good job dad. Where was all the penis fear then?

See but to me thats because I was an adult. And most of the women were adults. And the concern was with the child, not adults.

I see no problem with transgender using any restroom they choose. I DO have a problem in schools with a penis in the womans locker room. Because it raises too many sexual situation and questions for developing kids.


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calamity said:
I don't need it enforced en masse. I'm good with women who are suspicious of a man in the women's restroom calling security, them questioning him and calling the cops if he is not a she. That should suffice.
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Why? A man, even one not transgender, isn't hurting anyone by just being in a restroom and the vast majority have a reason that isn't "I want to see naked chicks". Question them for doing something suspicious, not simply being there.


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Jane said:
No, I wasn't moving goalposts. But I'll be glad to play wherever you want to place them

For instance, can you tell me where in the country it is illegal for a "woman who is suffering from diarrhea" to use the bathroom labelled "men?" Just for this conversation, can we leave off North Carolina? I'll even let you go broader with your "for instance" and ask you where in the country it is illegal for a woman to use the men's room? Period.
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That's completely irrelevant: what i'm defending is my own statement that we should not outlaw the ordinary use of a bathroom, even on the basis of gender.
 
Absentglare said:
That's completely irrelevant: what i'm defending is my own statement that we should not outlaw the ordinary use of a bathroom, even on the basis of gender.
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Even for juveniles?


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roguenuke said:
Why? A man, even one not transgender, isn't hurting anyone by just being in a restroom and the vast majority have a reason that isn't "I want to see naked chicks". Question them for doing something suspicious, not simply being there.


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Because it's the women's restroom, shower or locker room. You know, a restroom, shower or locker room intended for women not men. Why is this Chinese to you people?
 
Jane said:
1.) Sorry (again). My mistake. You sure don't seem to take "yes" for an answer very graciously. Or at all. :?

2.) You don't have to agree with anything I've said. REFUTE something specific I've said with which you disagree. If you can.

3.) Are you able to name anything I have posted here that could be characterized as discriminatory. Name just one thing. You can refer to the laws of any state or locality in the country.
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You already lost, there's no need to play games, you implied most women agree with you, they don't. Then you tired to move the goal post and say this is about "undressing in front of male types" You were all over the place every time somebody stomped on your posts. It was pretty funny. Anyway instead of playing games, if you would like posters to take you seriously simply tell us your stance instead of dancing around.

Transgenders have been using the facilities that they choose my whole life. So simply tell us, should laws be created to deny transgenders access to the bathroom/facilities that relates to their gender identity?
 
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