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Feminists treat men badly.

Henrin said:
Ever hear a feminist complain that men are the reason women don't get raises? I actually heard that one in person from a feminist that didn't realize her boss was a woman. :lamo
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Ever hear a libertarian say we should have a privatized national defense?
 
Henrin said:
Gender roles as an idea are in fact supported by human history and the animal kingdom, sorry.
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No they aren't. First even in the animal kingdom there are variations of gender roles as well as exceptions within species. On top of this, we are some of the most adapting, changing of any species. This includes in our gender roles.


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roguenuke said:
No they aren't. First even in the animal kingdom there are variations of gender roles as well as exceptions within species. On top of this, we are some of the most adapting, changing of any species. This includes in our gender roles.


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To the most part gender roles in the human race have been pretty stable. Generally speaking societies that tired to change them up like you are doing were short lived or the changes didn't last. In any event, your exceptions business that you always pull is just piss poor debating. Exceptions don't defeat the rule and it's about time you realize that.
 
Eric7216 said:
Any movement gets taken over by more extreme elements as time goes by and feminism has been largely taken over by men haters. It is not longer the feminism of the 70s.
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That is what the social conservatives have been saying about feminists ever since the movement started.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
What it is and what it (claims to be/thinks it is) are barely related according to many of us, and our opinion matters as much as yours does, or theirs does.
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Before further discussion takes place, we should define feminism. I consider myself one, but don't see myself as treating men badly.
 
Henrin said:
To the most part gender roles in the human race have been pretty stable. Generally speaking societies that tired to change them up like you are doing were short lived or the changes didn't last. In any event, your exceptions business that you always pull is just piss poor debating. Exceptions don't defeat the rule and it's about time you realize that.
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This is your view, opinion, but it isn't true, not even looking at history.


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roguenuke said:
They are not supported by reality. Most of the gender roles in humanity are artificial. They aren't natural.


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But who cares if their are natural gender roles? It's not like we have to follow them if we don't want to.
 
roguenuke said:
This is your view, opinion, but it isn't true, not even looking at history.


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Your view is just bizarre from the start. If gender neutralism was the natural ends then the majority of societies would endorse it through human history. Have they? No. Instead to the most part a view much closer view to mine was supported through most of human history. A view that you find is based on falsehoods.

So basically the majority of societies all over the world that never communicated formed a basic foundation of gender roles that you reject as false. How funny.
 
Lovebug said:
Before further discussion takes place, we should define feminism. I consider myself one, but don't see myself as treating men badly.
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Well there are many different feminisms, so I don't think there's one single definition.
 
Henrin said:
To the most part gender roles in the human race have been pretty stable. Generally speaking societies that tired to change them up like you are doing were short lived or the changes didn't last. In any event, your exceptions business that you always pull is just piss poor debating. Exceptions don't defeat the rule and it's about time you realize that.
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For most of human history slavery was the natural order, as was treating women as property, killing infidels, totalitarian societies and so on. That is why the argument that women have specific societal roles because that is the way its been throughout most of human history is kind of absurd.
 
TheGoverness said:
Well there are many different feminisms, so I don't think there's one single definition.
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Yeah, but all feminists are bad and hateful, according to those who have no clue what feminism is.
 
TheGoverness said:
But who cares if their are natural gender roles? It's not like we have to follow them if we don't want to.
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A large part of my point is that not following them has been shown to not work.
 
Henrin said:
A large part of my point is that not following them has been shown to not work.
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How so? There's plenty of people today that don't adhere to gender roles and are doing just fine. I'm one of them.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
For most of human history slavery was the natural order, as was treating women as property, killing infidels, totalitarian societies and so on. That is why the argument that women have specific societal roles because that is the way its been throughout most of human history is kind of absurd.
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And what exactly is your views even based on? Equality doesn't exist and is nothing but a made up concept by dreamers. If that is your idea of a foundation of a system then I have no words for it.
 
Henrin said:
And what exactly is your views even based on? Equality doesn't exist and is nothing but a made up concept by dreamers. If that is your idea of a foundation of a system then I have no words for it.
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Gender roles don't exist either. Its all human constructs. Culture, societal roles, economics, religion.... everything other than what is purely biological about us is a human construct. So I am not sure what your point is.
 
Henrin said:
Your view is just bizarre from the start. If gender neutralism was the natural ends then the majority of societies would endorse it through human history. Have they? No. Instead to the most part a view much closer view to mine was supported through most of human history. A view that you find is based on falsehoods.

So basically the majority of societies all over the world that never communicated formed a basic foundation of gender roles that you reject as false. How funny.
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What part of things change do you not understand? And there has been some very large variations of gender roles throughout cultures and history, even if some very basic ones have been similar. And there have always been exceptions, even if oppressed by the majority.
 
And misogynists treat women badly.

What else isn't new?

:lol:
 
Henrin said:
A large part of my point is that not following them has been shown to not work.
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This is nothing but a bull**** opinion from someone who has shown bias in this area on many occasions, in multiple discussions.
 
Lovebug said:
Yeah, but all feminists are bad and hateful, according to those who have no clue what feminism is.
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Well what else can you expect from generalizations? They're almost always wrong and stupid.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Gender roles don't exist either. Its all human constructs. Culture, societal roles, economics, religion.... everything other than what is purely biological about us is a human construct. So I am not sure what your point is.
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How did you determine that?
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Gender roles don't exist either. Its all human constructs. Culture, societal roles, economics, religion.... everything other than what is purely biological about us is a human construct. So I am not sure what your point is.
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Anyway, regardless of their origin or merit gender roles can exist, while equality will always be a dream. Sure you can reach it in some areas, but even there it has to be enforced by law and is more or less an illusion.
 
Lovebug said:
Yeah, but all feminists are bad and hateful, according to those who have no clue what feminism is.
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Please find a version of feminism that isn't hateful.
 
Eric7216 said:
Any movement gets taken over by more extreme elements as time goes by and feminism has been largely taken over by men haters. It is not longer the feminism of the 70s.
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Actually the feminists of the sixties and seventies were pretty hateful.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Gender roles don't exist either. Its all human constructs. Culture, societal roles, economics, religion.... everything other than what is purely biological about us is a human construct. So I am not sure what your point is.
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Ok, lets ignore your factually incorrect idea that gender roles doesn't exist and focus more on the claim of that gender roles are naturally neutral. Earlier you went over a list of realities that were common place in society for centuries. Tell me, how did they happen?

Now saying everything that I said here, rogue is right that there are exceptions, but none of those exceptions are really all that successful. For example, female dominated societies have historically never measured up to male dominated ones using pretty much any measurement.
 
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