Queers[W:197]

Re: Queers

SmokeAndMirrors said:

exposing what they do to a wider audience tends to gather more people to your cause.

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So when people see the battle they join forces against you? Hmmm..

My cause is not anti gay.. My cause is that gays should tolerate people that have anti gay opinions just as much as they should tolerate your pro gay opinions.. But that won't happen because liberals and their self important double standards yada yada

Re: Queers

SmokeAndMirrors said:

The problem with "gay" is that it isn't only gay people in that community. Thus the string of letters, and the alternative term "queer," which includes everything. If it was just gay people, they'd just use "gay." It isn't a matter of political correctness; "gay" just doesn't fully cover the population.

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I give up.

Re: Queers

MaggieD said:

Well, I guess we just have a failure to communicate. I find the word offensive. I would never call someone queer. In my circle of friends and family that would be an insult. Depending on the tone someone used to address someone that way, if in my presence, I would most likely speak up. So I have to wonder what happened to change that general perception. And wonder if that's a good thing? Or not.

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"Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" was a popular show 03-07, the word "queer" has been ok to use for a long time.

Re: Queers

cabse5 said:

Who can say it? Under which circumstances can one say it? See? Free speech really doesn't exist... Free thought doesn't exist with hate crimes laws.

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You can say whatever you want as long as you are not afraid to offend someone..

Re: Queers

SmokeAndMirrors said:

Do I respect the exclusionary old guard? No, I don't. I never claimed to. :shrug:

What I was refering to is a segment of gays specifically, who do not believe non-binary queer sexualities should be included in the community, and some also believe non-normative genders shouldn't be included.

I think they should, since the community is for support and addressing discrimination, and people in those groups also experience discrimination.

Like many words, "queer" is contextual. Yelling, "****ing queer!" out the window of your truck is still offensive (yes, I have seen people do that).

If by "tolerate" you mean "leave them alone and stop fighting against them having the exact same rights you do," then sure.

No one is asking YOU to change anything. They are merely asking you to stop trying to deny them the rights you have.

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When you say community without identifying which specific community, I assume you are talking about us, the American community. If your community "old guard" do not believe exactly the same way as you, they are deemed exclusionary? Do you include every single group, no matter what, in your expression of inclusion?


While this is not the place to argue changing the institution of marriage to fit the new idea of marriage including same sex, and who knows what from there will come next, as the slippery slope is certainly in full engagement now, that normal bathroom/locker room usage for guys and girls has been disrupted, your side is not asking but forcing all of us to change, to accept that which we feel is not acceptable. As a guy, like every other guy I didn't have the right to marry another man. Date, live with, have sex with, etc...yes, but toleration was insufficient. Now we are forced to accept that as normal behavior, no matter what we think, we ARE being forced to change, despite what you say. Same now is being forced in bathrooms and locker rooms. Obama trying to force schools to accept his view of the reality.

Re: Queers

MaggieD said:

I'm not sure I said I was offended. If I did, it's more that I find it an offensive word. Rude. In poor taste. You sure go off in all directions here. Potentially closeted. Really? Do you think people who are offended by the word nigger, as I am, are also closeted BLACKS?

What an interesting perspective.

And as for being liberal, you couldn't be any more wrong in your assumption.

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See how worried you are about people being offended?

Re: Queers

Orly? said:

You can say whatever you want as long as you are not afraid to offend someone..

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There are anti-Trump people who are basing their entire campaigns against Trump on being offended by what he says and does. Taking political correctness and informally with a desire for vigilantism to the maximum.

Re: Queers

cabse5 said:

Who can say it? Under which circumstances can one say it? See? Free speech really doesn't exist... Free thought doesn't exist with hate crimes laws.

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Anyone can use it. Including straight and cisgender people. "Queer" is a reclaimed word, which is why some older people still think it is offensive. All words change over time.

Under what circumstances can you use it? Respectful ones. I.e. "The queer community," or "my friend identifies as queer." Yelling "****ing queer!" from a truck would fail this test.

This is not difficult. This is the same test that would be used to judge appropriateness of using almost any descriptor of anyone.

However, if you choose to use it insultingly, it is not "new" for people to negatively judge someone who is clearly trying to be insulting. Your freedom of speech does not mean you are free of consequence when you say cruel things to people.

However, "queer" is not an inherently insulting word. You are perfectly welcome to use it in a respectful way. You are making a mountain out of nothing.

Re: Queers

cabse5 said:

There are anti-Trump people who are basing their entire campaigns against Trump on being offended by what he says and does. Taking political correctness and informally with a desire for vigilantism to the maximum.

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The war is on..

Re: Queers

tres borrachos said:

I don't get it either Maggie. "Queer" means something strange or odd. It is not a compliment to call an LGBT person "queer". But people still do it, even on television.

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Well, stricting speaking in numbers, being gay is 'queer'. It's well outside of the norm. An aberration. Thus strange or unusual...queer.

Re: Queers

Gaugingcatenate said:

When you say community without identifying which specific community, I assume you are talking about us, the American community. If your community "old guard" do not believe exactly the same way as you, they are deemed exclusionary? Do you include every single group, no matter what, in your expression of inclusion?


While this is not the place to argue changing the institution of marriage to fit the new idea of marriage including same sex, and who knows what from there will come next, as the slippery slope is certainly in full engagement now, that normal bathroom/locker room usage for guys and girls has been disrupted, your side is not asking but forcing all of us to change, to accept that which we feel is not acceptable. As a guy, like every other guy I didn't have the right to marry another man. Date, live with, have sex with, etc...yes, but toleration was insufficient. Now we are forced to accept that as normal behavior, no matter what we think, we ARE being forced to change, despite what you say. Same now is being forced in bathrooms and locker rooms. Obama trying to force schools to accept his view of the reality.

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When people do hateful things to other people, I don't respect them. This include gays who don't even want lesbians, let alone polysexual and genderqueers, in their community, and deride them accordingly.

This also includes people who have fought to keep queer people as second class citizens and deny them the rights that they have.

How you feel personally about queer people is your business. But it is un-American to fight to deny people the right to have a family of their choosing, be protected from firing if they get outted at their job, or live harmless as they please.

You can even simply ignore them completely, go to a church that won't marry them (they still have that right), do nothing on their behalf. That is fine. Your life doesn't need to change at all.

But when you get in the way of your fellow countryfolk having equal rights, yes, I have a problem, and I don't respect that position.

Transsexual people have a medically valid condition which we treat medically, and they are under threat of assault if they go into their bio-sex bathroom after transition. That is why they need access to the correct bathroom. It is a safety issue for them.

And on the other hand, trans people have never been a safety issue to cis people. There is not one case, ever, of a person playing trans to assault someone in a bathroom. Not one.

You have probably been sharing a bathroom with gays and passing trans people for many years, and you never knew the difference. Nothing is changing for you. For some reason it just bothers you to know they exist in the same world as you.

Re: Queers

Orly? said:

So when people see the battle they join forces against you? Hmmm..

My cause is not anti gay.. My cause is that gays should tolerate people that have anti gay opinions just as much as they should tolerate your pro gay opinions.. But that won't happen because liberals and their self important double standards yada yada

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The only opinion of the queer movement is that they are human beings who should have the same rights as other human beings. It is not respectable to believe some people are lesser, and that is why I don't respect it.

Re: Queers

Orly? said:

You don't say...

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Nope. It would be not be politically correct. There must be something going on.

Re: Queers

MaggieD said:

There's a thread in this forum that purposefully addresses LGBT people as queers. WTF? How is that appropriate? Where I come from, that's pretty much the equivalent of the N word. So are we so enlightened now that we can call people of different sexual orientations "queer"? Or is this one of those words where, if you are one, it's perfectly okay?

Some people are their own worst enemies.

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Thats not it at all . . .
Its just like every other single word . . .

context and usage matters :shrug:

somethign as simple as bitch/asshole can definitely be offensive but people also use it in a friendly way or non-offensive way all the time. Doesn't change that fact that if you call somebody random a bitch/asshole that it can be very much so offensive.

This is just par for the course, all words are like this. The offense varies in degree of course but they all have their offensive and inoffensive usage

Re: Queers

Howler63 said:

Well, stricting speaking in numbers, being gay is 'queer'. It's well outside of the norm. An aberration. Thus strange or unusual...queer.

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And politically incorrect. You may offend when you use the term. People don't realize the people who remind others not to not offend are, themselves, purposeful offenders of others.

It is offensive when it upsets their sensibilities. It doesn't offend when it doesn't upset their sensibilities. Why the name of Washington pro football team, Redskins, is still so offensive even though most Indians aren't offended by the term. Redskins is offensive to liberals.

Re: Queers

Orly? said:

So when people see the battle they join forces against you? Hmmm..

My cause is not anti gay.. My cause is that gays should tolerate people that have anti gay opinions just as much as they should tolerate your pro gay opinions.. But that won't happen because liberals and their self important double standards yada yada

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You are free to have anti-gay opinions/feelings all you want
what you can't do is infringe on rights of people

I don't know anybody who wants to legally force you to tolerate gay feelings, opinions and or have pro gay views. If they do they are a loon.

huge very important difference

Re: Queers

MaggieD said:

First, I'm a conservative. Secondly, I didn't suggest BANNING the word. I just identify it as rude and crude. Inappropriate. Ignorant. A slur. And it is unfortunate it appears it has become socially acceptable by those who are LBGT.

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The problem is that it's now ONLY socially acceptable in the homosexual community. We used to play "Smear the Queer" when I was in High School (for our younger crowd it was where you got a bunch of guys together with a football and whoever had the ball was EVERYONE'S target for tackling), if a kid today suggested that, they'd be kicked out of school and branded as homophobic.

Re: Queers

faithful_servant said:

The problem is that it's now ONLY socially acceptable in the homosexual community. We used to play "Smear the Queer" when I was in High School (for our younger crowd it was where you got a bunch of guys together with a football and whoever had the ball was EVERYONE'S target for tackling), if a kid today suggested that, they'd be kicked out of school and branded as homophobic.

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No, it isn't. Straight people are perfectly welcome to call it the queer community, or apply it to an individual who has said to them "I identify as queer."

Re: Queers

SmokeAndMirrors said:

No, it isn't. Straight people are perfectly welcome to call it the queer community, or apply it to an individual who has said to them "I identify as queer."

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...and if someone talked about "the two queers who live down the street" from them, they'd be called homophobic...

Re: Queers

faithful_servant said:

...and if someone talked about "the two queers who live down the street" from them, they'd be called homophobic...

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no thats not a fact at all
again, it would depend on context . . .
I have gay friends who I use queer for because they use it . . .its a non issue and Ive never been called homophobic for it

very similar to jew, asshole, redneck, bitch, etc etc etc

Re: Queers

SmokeAndMirrors said:

When people do hateful things to other people, I don't respect them. This include gays who don't even want lesbians, let alone polysexual and genderqueers, in their community, and deride them accordingly.

This also includes people who have fought to keep queer people as second class citizens and deny them the rights that they have.

How you feel personally about queer people is your business. But it is un-American to fight to deny people the right to have a family of their choosing, be protected from firing if they get outted at their job, or live harmless as they please.

You can even simply ignore them completely, go to a church that won't marry them (they still have that right), do nothing on their behalf. That is fine. Your life doesn't need to change at all.

But when you get in the way of your fellow countryfolk having equal rights, yes, I have a problem, and I don't respect that position.

Transsexual people have a medically valid condition which we treat medically, and they are under threat of assault if they go into their bio-sex bathroom after transition. That is why they need access to the correct bathroom. It is a safety issue for them.

And on the other hand, trans people have never been a safety issue to cis people. There is not one case, ever, of a person playing trans to assault someone in a bathroom. Not one.

You have probably been sharing a bathroom with gays and passing trans people for many years, and you never knew the difference. Nothing is changing for you. For some reason it just bothers you to know they exist in the same world as you.

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You mean hateful like calling them the “old guard” in a disrepectful manner? Why should anyone respect you? You see, people get to have their own views of what is right and wrong... and just because others see what you are doing as wrong doesn't mean THEY are wrong. Expecting respect and getting it isnt automatic you see.

If someone does not believe certain behaviors and lifestyles behoove the entire community, the total American community, that these should not be normalized does not mean the ones that don't get their way are second class citizens, only means they did not get their way. Some things just should never be normalized. Face it, its true. Cultures with long term aspirations of continuing must weed out those things that are not suited for that very continuance to occur.

We get to differ on what those are.

Oh, sounds so nice, the antiseptic way you frame it... leaving out the consequences of what will surely come from such lowest denominator is good for all of us styled thought.

Drawing proper lines is not un-American at all. So, would you be so un-American as to deny it becoming legal for a father to have a family with his daughter...maybe even three of his daughters if they are all willing? We can draw no lines, being fully and truly American.

Not to do so is stupid, a society suicidal thought.

Again, this is not the thread to go into countering every single one of your advocacies of silliness, this dognitive-cognitive dissonance that all of the rest of us, if you folks are not stopped, will be FORCED to accept.

I am aware that there are strange people out there. I simply do not have to accept their strangeness as being normal.

Re: Queers

SmokeAndMirrors said:

When people do hateful things to other people, I don't respect them. This include gays who don't even want lesbians, let alone polysexual and genderqueers, in their community, and deride them accordingly.

This also includes people who have fought to keep queer people as second class citizens and deny them the rights that they have.

How you feel personally about queer people is your business. But it is un-American to fight to deny people the right to have a family of their choosing, be protected from firing if they get outted at their job, or live harmless as they please.

You can even simply ignore them completely, go to a church that won't marry them (they still have that right), do nothing on their behalf. That is fine. Your life doesn't need to change at all.

But when you get in the way of your fellow countryfolk having equal rights, yes, I have a problem, and I don't respect that position.

Transsexual people have a medically valid condition which we treat medically, and they are under threat of assault if they go into their bio-sex bathroom after transition. That is why they need access to the correct bathroom. It is a safety issue for them.

And on the other hand, trans people have never been a safety issue to cis people. There is not one case, ever, of a person playing trans to assault someone in a bathroom. Not one.

You have probably been sharing a bathroom with gays and passing trans people for many years, and you never knew the difference. Nothing is changing for you. For some reason it just bothers you to know they exist in the same world as you.

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You mean hateful like calling them the “old guard” in a disrepectful manner? Why should anyone respect you? You see, people get to have their own views of what is right and wrong... and just because others see what you are doing as wrong doesn't mean THEY are wrong. Expecting respect and getting it isnt automatic you see.

If someone does not believe certain behaviors and lifestyles behoove the entire community, the total American community, that these should not be normalized does not mean the ones that don't get their way are second class citizens, only means they did not get their way. Some things just should never be normalized. Face it, its true. Cultures with long term aspirations of continuing must weed out those things that are not suited for that very continuance to occur.

We get to differ on what those are.

Oh, sounds so nice, the antiseptic way you frame it... leaving out the consequences of what will surely come from such lowest denominator is good for all of us styled thought.

Drawing proper lines is not un-American at all. So, would you be so un-American as to deny it becoming legal for a father to have a family with his daughter...maybe even three of his daughters if they are all willing? We can draw no lines, being fully and truly American?

Not to do so is stupid, a society suicidal thought.

Again, this is not the thread to go into countering every single one of your advocacies of silliness, this dognitive-cognitive dissonance that all of the rest of us, if you folks are not stopped, will be FORCED to accept.

I am aware that there are strange people out there. I simply do not have to accept their strangeness as being normal.

Re: Queers

Hawkeye10 said:

"Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" was a popular show 03-07, the word "queer" has been ok to use for a long time.

Click to expand...

Oh!! I remember that. Puts it in a whole different perspective now that I think about that. It was a cute show. Thanks!

Orly? said:

See how worried you are about people being offended?

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Oh, I will neither deny that or apologize for it. I think that's kindness. It's free. People ought to abide it more often today.

Re: Queers

Gaugingcatenate said:

You mean hateful like calling them the “old guard” in a disrepectful manner? Why should anyone respect you? You see, people get to have their own views of what is right and wrong... and just because others see what you are doing as wrong doesn't mean THEY are wrong. Expecting respect and getting it isnt automatic you see.

If someone does not believe certain behaviors and lifestyles behoove the entire community, the total American community, that these should not be normalized does not mean the ones that don't get their way are second class citizens, only means they did not get their way. Some things just should never be normalized. Face it, its true. Cultures with long term aspirations of continuing must weed out those things that are not suited for that very continuance to occur.

We get to differ on what those are.

Oh, sounds so nice, the antiseptic way you frame it... leaving out the consequences of what will surely come from such lowest denominator is good for all of us styled thought.

Drawing proper lines is not un-American at all. So, would you be so un-American as to deny it becoming legal for a father to have a family with his daughter...maybe even three of his daughters if they are all willing? We can draw no lines, being fully and truly American?

Not to do so is stupid, a society suicidal thought.

Again, this is not the thread to go into countering every single one of your advocacies of silliness, this dognitive-cognitive dissonance that all of the rest of us, if you folks are not stopped, will be FORCED to accept.

I am aware that there are strange people out there. I simply do not have to accept their strangeness as being normal.

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Thats a lot of ranting that means nothign more than you want what MIGHT want bigoted views to be accepted and made into law (but I cant say that cause I dont know your views)

but the ending is what is key and the totally dishonest part.

1) Who are the floks that must be stopped??
2.) NOBODY is forcing you to "accept" anything

what the real reality is are RIGHTS. Don't infringe on peoples rights and we are good.

Re: Queers

faithful_servant said:

The problem is that it's now ONLY socially acceptable in the homosexual community. We used to play "Smear the Queer" when I was in High School (for our younger crowd it was where you got a bunch of guys together with a football and whoever had the ball was EVERYONE'S target for tackling), if a kid today suggested that, they'd be kicked out of school and branded as homophobic.

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let's see
smear the queer was a bunch of adolescent boys who groped and grappled and got atop another boy with their sweaty, enthusiastic bodies
and you did this in your younger days, apparently enjoying it
how was that different?