• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Changin

Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

CaptainCourtesy said:
This is already changing. There is a prison in Texas, I believe, that has a separate cell block just for transsexuals.
Click to expand...

Most prisons have a different tier for transexuals yes, but they have penis. You do not go to a female prison with penis you go to male.

Thats the only way to make the distinction transexual or not it still works
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

Hawkeye10 said:
Are you disputing that the sexually confused have super high suicide rates?
Click to expand...

Firstly, sexually confused in a misnomer. Transsexual is the correct terms. I do not take kindly to equivocating. If you'd like to learn more about why the term you used is incorrect, feel free to ask. As many will tell you, I work with transsexuals, so I know a lot about the topic. As far as the high suicide rate, I am not disputing that. Tell me, though... why do you think it's so high?
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

lpast said:
Most prisons have a different tier for transexuals yes, but they have penis. You do not go to a female prison with penis you go to male.

Thats the only way to make the distinction transexual or not it still works
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily disagree. POST-op transsexuals would not go to a male prison, since they do not have a penis. They would go to a female prison.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

Kal'Stang said:
He may very well have been attacking the trans community. Don't really know. I do know that, at least to me, what he did was make a statement about the laws and how it can affect reality. In this case someone that was not trans using the law as an excuse to go into the women's locker room. If the cops had been called he could have easily claimed that he was transgender and he'd have been let go.
Click to expand...

I don't care about the law. I have my issues with the law as I've stated before and in the post of which you are responding. The issue I have is that this is not the responsibility of transsexuals. This is the responsibility of the individual who acted in this case.

Glad you agree, now if only we can get everyone else to agree. ;)
Click to expand...

People are too wedded to the blacks and whites of the issue. The issue is a shade of gray, as are most.

As for drawing attention to themselves, I don't rightly know. I have seen how the homosexual crowd went out of their way to show others that they were homosexual. Due to that I have no reason to believe that transsexuals wouldn't do the same if they wanted to. The only transsexual that I know personally doesn't go out of her way to draw attention to herself, but she also doesn't try to hide the fact either. Other people may very well consider that as "drawing attention". I don't, but others might.
Click to expand...

You are overgeneralizing. For every homosexual who draws attention to themselves, there would be 10 who don't. Extremists or attention whores in every group exist, but they are not the norm. I've only met one transsexual who tried to bring attention to himself around it, I confronted him on it, and was told to **** off. Extremists and attention whores of any persuasion are not to be considered the norm.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

CaptainCourtesy said:
Firstly, sexually confused in a misnomer. Transsexual is the correct terms. I do not take kindly to equivocating. If you'd like to learn more about why the term you used is incorrect, feel free to ask. As many will tell you, I work with transsexuals, so I know a lot about the topic. As far as the high suicide rate, I am not disputing that. Tell me, though... why do you think it's so high?
Click to expand...

Firstly, language is very often used to frame the debate, and when ever people are found running around claiming that others cant or should not use certain words or phrases we are very likely witnessing this manipulation. I refuse to participate. THe answer to your question is that they dont feel like they fit in anywhere, and they are too much on their own, which is why before we got stupid we assigned a sex to the babies and told the parents to raise them as that sex, and to be firm about it. This idea the people are going to be happier if they can be what ever sex they want to be and even make up their own is as much a myth as is the idea that we are going to be happier if we have 48 kinds of ketchup to choose from at Safeway rather than two.

Choice is certainly not always a good thing.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

CaptainCourtesy said:
I don't care about the law. I have my issues with the law as I've stated before and in the post of which you are responding. The issue I have is that this is not the responsibility of transsexuals. This is the responsibility of the individual who acted in this case.
Click to expand...

Depends on your POV. I wholly agree that this individuals actions are his alone. But the circumstances around it is, in part, due to transsexuals. Specifically, imo, those transsexuals that haven't had the surgery done and go into the opposite genders restrooms/locker rooms. They've pushed and pushed for the law to allow them into these public spaces without regard to the possible consequences. The action that this guy took was a result of that at the very least. If he hadn't done what he did, someone else would have. The action itself was an inevitable consequence of non-surgically altered transsexuals actions. "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" type deal.

CaptainCourtesy said:
People are too wedded to the blacks and whites of the issue. The issue is a shade of gray, as are most.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

CaptainCourtesy said:
You are overgeneralizing. For every homosexual who draws attention to themselves, there would be 10 who don't. Extremists or attention whores in every group exist, but they are not the norm. I've only met one transsexual who tried to bring attention to himself around it, I confronted him on it, and was told to **** off. Extremists and attention whores of any persuasion are not to be considered the norm.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't mean to over generalize it. I thought that my telling of my personal experience with a transsexual would have made it clear. I fully agree that most transsexuals won't push themselves out there just like most homosexuals didn't. It's the ones that do that have me wondering.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

CaptainCourtesy said:
Firstly, sexually confused in a misnomer. Transsexual is the correct terms. I do not take kindly to equivocating. If you'd like to learn more about why the term you used is incorrect, feel free to ask. As many will tell you, I work with transsexuals, so I know a lot about the topic. As far as the high suicide rate, I am not disputing that. Tell me, though... why do you think it's so high?
Click to expand...

I do not take kindly to people who think they own the language, whether or not they "work with transsexuals". As Hawkeye points out you attempt to define terms and then use your definitions to shape the discussion.

Transgenderism is not a physical but a mental abnormality. You ask why the suicide rate among men pretending to be women is high (is that also the case for women pretending to be men?). Suicide rates are higher among all groups whose minds are disturbed in one way or another so that might provide a clue.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

Your Star said:
What you are arguing is, that trans people should suffer because non-trans people will use this as an excuse commit crimes. That is just messed up. Innocent people shouldn't have to suffer and be ostracized by the government and society, even more than trans people already are, because someone else might commit a crime.

This is nothing more than using a fear and exploiting that fear to deny rights to a minority group. One of the most vulnerable and disenfranchised minority groups in the country, I might add. It's not hard to check to see if someone is really trans. How are they presenting? Are they taking hormones? Have they seen a therapist about this issue? What about other medical professionals? It would not be hard for the cops to figure out this guy isn't trans, and they should prosecute this idiot.

Now, for most trans people, they wouldn't even raise an eyebrow in the appropriate bathroom because most trans people blend in fairly well. What banning trans people from the appropriate facilities would do, is cause trans people to go into hiding in fear of someone making false claims about them because they have a problem with their gender identity - which would lead to less social progress on the issue because, just like with LGB progress, the most important factor in debunking stereotypes and ending hate is knowing people who are LGB - and it would make life even worse for people who don't blend as well. Do you really wanna do that? You wanna kick innocent people while they are down because you're afraid of some perverts who might exploit a "perceived loophole"?

Prosecute the perverts and leave innocent trans people alone. It's not that hard.
Click to expand...
You have got to be kidding. If not, then you just validated my theory that the trans are a bunch of unsympathetic narcissists incapable of feeling empathy for the greater society. "We want to feel safe. We don't care if laws protecting us endanger others."
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

Your Star said:
Just ignoring my arguments with ad-hom attacks about my objectivity. Nice.

I've been one of the best debaters on this site with regards to LGBT issues, me being gay, enhances my arguments, it doesn't hurt them, and they are quite objective. You just don't want to admit that you've lost.
Click to expand...

As a lesbian would you have a sexual relationship with a male as long as he self-identifies as a female?
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

radcen said:
I calls 'em as I sees 'em. You're a good person with a good heart, but when it comes to these particular types of issues you are not objective, and that has been clear for quite some time.
Click to expand...
why do you view yourself as ojective on this issue...what is it that makes an individual objective?
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

CaptainCourtesy said:
Firstly, sexually confused in a misnomer. Transsexual is the correct terms. I do not take kindly to equivocating. If you'd like to learn more about why the term you used is incorrect, feel free to ask. As many will tell you, I work with transsexuals, so I know a lot about the topic. As far as the high suicide rate, I am not disputing that. Tell me, though... why do you think it's so high?
Click to expand...

Because they are suffering from a mental illness that has been misdiagnosed as gender dysphoria and treated incorrectly.

I know you are going to dispute this, point instead to outside influences like that the transsexual is not accepted by family or society in general. But, to do that, you would have to discount the lower suicide rates of others who are not accepted by family such as those who leave certain religions like Jehovah Witnesses or Scientology, a result of which is to be rejected by family. You would also have to discount the lower suicide rates of the millions who are not accepted by society for a number of other reasons as well.
 
Last edited:
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

Kal'Stang said:
He may very well have been attacking the trans community. Don't really know. I do know that, at least to me, what he did was make a statement about the laws and how it can affect reality. In this case someone that was not trans using the law as an excuse to go into the women's locker room. If the cops had been called he could have easily claimed that he was transgender and he'd have been let go.
Click to expand...
I see three possibilities, listed in order of what my guess is their likelihood...

1) He was exploiting a weakened aspect of the law (protection of young girls, in this case) to satisfy his own erotic whims... knowing that he could now point to the transgender law and that would make it much harder for LE to prove his real intent.

2) He was simply being an ass.

3) He was legitimately protesting a law he disagrees with. Civil disobedience, if you will.

Whatever his motivation, given the information provided, I do not believe he is transgender.
 
Last edited:
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

Beaudreaux said:
Wow. Just... wow. Like this couldn't be predicted.

This is what happens when otherwise well intended people make idiotic choices to enhance their feel good state about being a progressive thinking person - little girls are required to undress in front of grown men in public, and the law protects the men, not the little girls. Wow. Just... wow.
Click to expand...

There's nothing fundamentally wrong w/adult men changing in a women's locker room when little girls are undressing there.

Women today are merely uncomfortable w/it solely due to their clinging to the idiotic, archaic sexist notion that all men are potential child molesters or rapists.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

solletica said:
There's nothing fundamentally wrong w/adult men changing in a women's locker room when little girls are undressing there.

Women today are merely uncomfortable w/it solely due to their clinging to the idiotic, archaic sexist notion that all men are potential child molesters or rapists.
Click to expand...

lol...yeah, there's nothing wrong with perverts watching young girls get undressed. Is that the libertarian view? :roll:
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

calamity said:
lol...yeah, there's nothing wrong with perverts watching young girls get undressed.
Click to expand...

Cite evidence documenting that all men are perverts.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

solletica said:
Cite evidence documenting that all men are perverts.
Click to expand...

Where was the claim made that all men are perverts?

I am, however, pointing out that your statement is flawed because perverts will enter places where young girls undress. Should we have a questionnaire asking perverts to self-identify before men are allowed to enter a lockerroom where young girls undress? I'm sure that will work just great. :roll:
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

calamity said:
Where was the claim made that all men are perverts?
Click to expand...

It was made by you. . .

calamity said:
ol...yeah, there's nothing wrong with perverts watching young girls get undressed
Click to expand...

And we're waiting for a citation that proves that all men who see young girls undressing are perverts.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

calamity said:
Should we have a questionnaire asking perverts to self-identify before men are allowed to enter a lockerroom where young girls undress?
Click to expand...

If anyone--man, women, lesbian, etc. enters any locker room and is gawking at people undressing there, then he/she should leave.

In other words, making people feel uncomfortable, not biological gender, should be the relevant criteria for excluding people from locker rooms.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

solletica said:
It was made by you. . .
Click to expand...
No it wasn't. I suggest you reread the post you quoted, slowly perhaps.



And we're waiting for a citation that proves that all men who see young girls undressing are perverts.
Click to expand...
Well, considering that I never said that, you can keep waiting.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

solletica said:
If anyone--man, women, lesbian, etc. enters any locker room and is gawking at people undressing there, then he/she should leave.

In other words, making people feel uncomfortable, not biological gender, should be the relevant criteria for excluding people from locker rooms.
Click to expand...

How about we just keep men in the men's lockerrooms and women in theirs? Revolutionary idea, I know. :roll:
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

calamity said:
How about we just keep men in the men's lockerrooms and women in theirs? Revolutionary idea, I know. :roll:
Click to expand...

More like a stupid idea, considering that it wouldn't confer any benefit, i. e. deterring perverted gay men from gawking at other young boys undressing.

How 'bout we just get rid of gender-based bathrooms/locker rooms and merely ban any and all gawkers from going there when others are there. Revolutionary idea, I know :rolleyes:
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

solletica said:
More like a stupid idea, considering that it wouldn't confer any benefit, i. e. deterring perverted gay men from gawking at other young boys undressing.
Click to expand...
Well, at least you admit that it's mostly men who will be doing the gawking. :)

How 'bout we just get rid of gender-based bathrooms/locker rooms and merely ban any and all gawkers from going there when others are there. Revolutionary idea, I know :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

More like a bad idea.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

calamity said:
Well, at least you admit that it's mostly men who will be doing the gawking. :)
Click to expand...

Cite when/where I said it will "mostly be men that are doing the gawking" .

You appear to have citation deficiency--making allegations/generalizations and failing to back it up.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

solletica said:
Cite when/where I said it will "mostly be men that are doing the gawking" .

You appear to have citation deficiency--making allegations/generalizations and failing to back it up.
Click to expand...

You're the one who said, and I quote, "...perverted gay men from gawking at other young boys undressing."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom