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Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Changin

Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

Which is kinda the point. Some of these laws are so non sensical that you're not even allowed to inquire of a grown man in a girl's locker room lest you offend him if he is, indeed, trans.

Honestly - it sounds insane... like some sexual version of the Twilight Zone.

"You DO confess to the crime of being leery of a man who was naked while in the presence of your naked daughter, do you not?"
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

He wasn't transsexual. He admitted that. HIM being there was inappropriate and had nothing to do with transsexuality in and of itself.

I disagree CC. Even if he admitted that he wasn't transsexual the reason for him being in there was obviously as a protest as a direct result of people allowing transgender folks that haven't had the surgery yet (and in his mind prolly including those with the surgery.. dumb imo on that count) into the opposite genders restroom/locker room. And it had a point to that protest which was proved very effectively. Due to the issues it caused the management of that place to not call the cops because they were too afraid of 1: offending a possible transsexual (no doubt due to lawsuits) 2: making the choice to handle it themselves which if that man had any sort of dangerous intentions would have caused a lot more potential physical harm than if the police had been called in.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, those that have had the surgery are imo quite welcome to use the genders bathroom that they identify with. Those without though need to use the ones that their physical characteristics match. It will not only prevent things like this from happening but it will create a safer atmosphere as people will know for sure whether or not they actually are transgender or not just some pervert.

Now I also understand their need and wanting of feeling comfortable and going to the restroom/locker room that they feel is appropriate for them. But in a public area like those others need to feel comfortable also and transgenders need to start taking into account other peoples feelings of comfortability also. Not just their own. Which is selfish and will garner no sympathy... at least from me anyways. Can't speak for anyone else.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

Which is kinda the point. Some of these laws are so non sensical that you're not even allowed to inquire of a grown man in a girl's locker room lest you offend him if he is, indeed, trans.



But everything to do with ill thought out reactionary laws.

the fact is captain is wrong. he doesn't have to admit he is a women at all.
all he has to do is feel that he is one for that minute
and there is nothing anyone can do about it the way the law is written.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

Wow. Just... wow. Like this couldn't be predicted.

This is what happens when otherwise well intended people make idiotic choices to enhance their feel good state about being a progressive thinking person - little girls are required to undress in front of grown men in public, and the law protects the men, not the little girls. Wow. Just... wow.

Just demonstrably not true. This just doesn't happen on a basis that requires taking away the rights of trans people, and also what they guy did was still illegal. This law protects trans people, not dudes who want to use the women's facilities.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, those that have had the surgery are imo quite welcome to use the genders bathroom that they identify with. Those without though need to use the ones that their physical characteristics match. It will not only prevent things like this from happening but it will create a safer atmosphere as people will know for sure whether or not they actually are transgender or not just some pervert.

Now I also understand their need and wanting of feeling comfortable and going to the restroom/locker room that they feel is appropriate for them. But in a public area like those others need to feel comfortable also and transgenders need to start taking into account other peoples feelings of comfortability also. Not just their own. Which is selfish and will garner no sympathy... at least from me anyways. Can't speak for anyone else.


Also, this video pretty much tears down this point. It is not right to force someone who looks like, and is living as their true gender to use facilities that don't match that gender, and it could potentially be dangerous.

 
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Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

The same criteria for state prisons and Federal Prisons should be used. Got Penis you are a man you are classified a male and you go to male prision. Its absurd to allow transexuals into female bathrooms one of the most "personal" of places for real women when they are in fact a man and can perform like a man. Now add young girls into the mix.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

Just demonstrably not true. This just doesn't happen on a basis that requires taking away the rights of trans people, and also what they guy did was still illegal. This law protects trans people, not dudes who want to use the women's facilities.
No, not "demonstrably" not true, but rather bias and/or opinion. What is conspicuously lacking in your zealous concern for trans-people is a lack of concern for the young girls.

And you are correct that this law does not protect the non-trans-person with insidious intent, but it does make it harder to prosecute the non-trans-person with insidious intent.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

I don't think it's all that great to have transsexuals around little naked girls either. Or little naked boys for that matter.

Who knows a male could identify as a female and be a lesbian that likes girls. Or a woman could identify as a man and like men. Why not? You just don't know and can't just take there word for it.
If they are that sexually confused it seems plausible they could be more likely statistically per cap to like kiddies too.

They need there own room..
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

No, not "demonstrably" not true, but rather bias and/or opinion. What is conspicuously lacking in your zealous concern for trans-people is a lack of concern for the young girls.

And you are correct that this law does not protect the non-trans-person with insidious intent, but it does make it harder to prosecute the non-trans-person with insidious intent.

What you are arguing is, that trans people should suffer because non-trans people will use this as an excuse commit crimes. That is just messed up. Innocent people shouldn't have to suffer and be ostracized by the government and society, even more than trans people already are, because someone else might commit a crime.

This is nothing more than using a fear and exploiting that fear to deny rights to a minority group. One of the most vulnerable and disenfranchised minority groups in the country, I might add. It's not hard to check to see if someone is really trans. How are they presenting? Are they taking hormones? Have they seen a therapist about this issue? What about other medical professionals? It would not be hard for the cops to figure out this guy isn't trans, and they should prosecute this idiot.

Now, for most trans people, they wouldn't even raise an eyebrow in the appropriate bathroom because most trans people blend in fairly well. What banning trans people from the appropriate facilities would do, is cause trans people to go into hiding in fear of someone making false claims about them because they have a problem with their gender identity - which would lead to less social progress on the issue because, just like with LGB progress, the most important factor in debunking stereotypes and ending hate is knowing people who are LGB - and it would make life even worse for people who don't blend as well. Do you really wanna do that? You wanna kick innocent people while they are down because you're afraid of some perverts who might exploit a "perceived loophole"?

Prosecute the perverts and leave innocent trans people alone. It's not that hard.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

What you are arguing is, that trans people should suffer because non-trans people will use this as an excuse commit crimes. That is just messed up. Innocent people shouldn't have to suffer and be ostracized by the government and society, even more than trans people already are, because someone else might commit a crime.

This is nothing more than using a fear and exploiting that fear to deny rights to a minority group. One of the most vulnerable and disenfranchised minority groups in the country, I might add. It's not hard to check to see if someone is really trans. How are they presenting? Are they taking hormones? Have they seen a therapist about this issue? What about other medical professionals? It would not be hard for the cops to figure out this guy isn't trans, and they should prosecute this idiot.

Now, for most trans people, they wouldn't even raise an eyebrow in the appropriate bathroom because most trans people blend in fairly well. What banning trans people from the appropriate facilities would do, is cause trans people to go into hiding in fear of someone making false claims about them because they have a problem with their gender identity - which would lead to less social progress on the issue because, just like with LGB progress, the most important factor in debunking stereotypes and ending hate is knowing people who are LGB - and it would make life even worse for people who don't blend as well. Do you really wanna do that? You wanna kick innocent people while they are down because you're afraid of some perverts who might exploit a "perceived loophole"?

Prosecute the perverts and leave innocent trans people alone. It's not that hard.
Your response here is a textbook example of how a person can be too close to an issue as to lose all objectivity. I did not say, nor did I imply, that.

You, however, are engaging in wishful thinking if you think that this particular protection for trans-people will still protect innocent kids and still allow for full and unchanged prosecution of people with insidious intent. Our judicial system, as a general rule, does not prosecute based on mind-reading.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

Your response here is a textbook example of how a person can be too close to an issue as to lose all objectivity. I did not say, nor did I imply, that.

You, however, are engaging in wishful thinking if you think that this particular protection for trans-people will still protect innocent kids and still allow for full and unchanged prosecution of people with insidious intent. Our judicial system, as a general rule, does not prosecute based on mind-reading.

Instead of vague insults at my objectivity, you could argue my points. I mean, they do refute your argument pretty well, so I see why you would be hesitant too. Banning trans people from gender appropriate bathrooms would cause trans people to suffer unduly for the actions of others, and that ain't right.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

Instead of vague insults at my objectivity, you could argue my points. I mean, they do refute your argument pretty well, so I see why you would be hesitant too. Banning trans people from gender appropriate bathrooms would cause trans people to suffer unduly for the actions of others, and that ain't right.
I did, and your's don't.

And I agree it's not right, but you're choosing to exchange one wrong for another, which doesn't help. And it's no secret to anyone who has been here awhile that this is an issue near and dear to your heart. No insults whatsoever, just observation.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

Instead of vague insults at my objectivity, you could argue my points. I mean, they do refute your argument pretty well, so I see why you would be hesitant too. Banning trans people from gender appropriate bathrooms would cause trans people to suffer unduly for the actions of others, and that ain't right.

The collective needs to look out for itself......do we really want a bunch more of these high risk of suicide sexually confused people running around? I think not. Maybe we should not encourage it like we did homosexuality to where we now have large numbers of young women pairing leaving the men with nothing. These starved guys might someday decide to burn the place down btw, foolishness sometimes carries consequences .
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

I did, and your's don't.

And I agree it's not right, but you're choosing to exchange one wrong for another, which doesn't help. And it's no secret to anyone who has been here awhile that this is an issue near and dear to your heart. No insults whatsoever, just observation.

No, I'm not exchanging one wrong for another. Laws protecting trans people do not make molestation legal, that is absurd. And just because I'm gay, doesn't mean that I can't be objective about LGBT issues, nor does that make my points any less valid.

It's crazy, because we've been over this stuff with DADT repeal, all this is, is the same arguments that were used back then. This is nothing new, and this is something, as a country, we should be over. LGBT people aren't going to rape you in a bathroom. It's silly.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

No, I'm not exchanging one wrong for another. Laws protecting trans people do not make molestation legal, that is absurd. And just because I'm gay, doesn't mean that I can't be objective about LGBT issues, nor does that make my points any less valid.
I calls 'em as I sees 'em. You're a good person with a good heart, but when it comes to these particular types of issues you are not objective, and that has been clear for quite some time.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

I would never think about entering a female changing area or shower.

But then, I don't really get this "self identifying thingy" either.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

No, I'm not exchanging one wrong for another. Laws protecting trans people do not make molestation legal, that is absurd. And just because I'm gay, doesn't mean that I can't be objective about LGBT issues, nor does that make my points any less valid.

It's crazy, because we've been over this stuff with DADT repeal, all this is, is the same arguments that were used back then. This is nothing new, and this is something, as a country, we should be over. LGBT people aren't going to rape you in a bathroom. It's silly.

Maybe we dont equate the sexually confused with the homosexual.

Dont blindly assume that we do.
 
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Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

I calls 'em as I sees 'em. You're a good person with a good heart, but when it comes to these particular types of issues you are not objective, and that has been clear for quite some time.

Just ignoring my arguments with ad-hom attacks about my objectivity. Nice.

I've been one of the best debaters on this site with regards to LGBT issues, me being gay, enhances my arguments, it doesn't hurt them, and they are quite objective. You just don't want to admit that you've lost.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

My argument is that the changing of social boundaries as the behest of advocates for the sexually confused allowed this act to happen to the degree that it did at least, and probably completely, because in olden times a guy would know that he was going to suffer major damage if he tried the gambit that was attempted. You are wrong because changes adopted to make the sexually confused more comfortable is intimately related to transsexuality.

You are incorrect. THIS issue has nothing to do with transsexuality. It is not the fault of transsexuals that some idiotic male decided to do this. Some people will take advantage of situations. That is the problem of the individual taking advantage, not the situation.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

Correction he never admitted anything and he doesn't have to.

Incorrect. He admitted he was not transsexual. I quoted the part of the article.

But appearances do not matter when it comes to "gender identity." LGBT theorists hold that biological sex is distinct from gender, which is determined solely by the person's mental self-identification.

The law allows him to enter the women's locker room at any time. since right at that time if he mentally feels like he is a female.

Incorrect. The law does not allow that.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

I disagree CC. Even if he admitted that he wasn't transsexual the reason for him being in there was obviously as a protest as a direct result of people allowing transgender folks that haven't had the surgery yet (and in his mind prolly including those with the surgery.. dumb imo on that count) into the opposite genders restroom/locker room. And it had a point to that protest which was proved very effectively. Due to the issues it caused the management of that place to not call the cops because they were too afraid of 1: offending a possible transsexual (no doubt due to lawsuits) 2: making the choice to handle it themselves which if that man had any sort of dangerous intentions would have caused a lot more potential physical harm than if the police had been called in.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, those that have had the surgery are imo quite welcome to use the genders bathroom that they identify with. Those without though need to use the ones that their physical characteristics match. It will not only prevent things like this from happening but it will create a safer atmosphere as people will know for sure whether or not they actually are transgender or not just some pervert.

Now I also understand their need and wanting of feeling comfortable and going to the restroom/locker room that they feel is appropriate for them. But in a public area like those others need to feel comfortable also and transgenders need to start taking into account other peoples feelings of comfortability also. Not just their own. Which is selfish and will garner no sympathy... at least from me anyways. Can't speak for anyone else.

By your own statement, it was undoubtedly someone who is anti-trans trying to attack the trans community. Has nothing to do with transsexuals in and of themselves. Just stupid anti-trans people.

As far as the rest, I pretty much agree. For those who have seen my discuss this issue, I am completely opposed to anyone who has not gone through surgery using the lockeroom of which they identify. You use what matches your genitals. As far as restrooms go, I am a little more lenient with that, but not much. My recommendation is that, again, one uses the restroom that matches their genitals, unless they CLEARLY present as the opposite gender. Also, I doubt any real transsexual is going to draw attention to themselves in situations like this.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

the fact is captain is wrong. he doesn't have to admit he is a women at all.
all he has to do is feel that he is one for that minute
and there is nothing anyone can do about it the way the law is written.

Fact is I'm not wrong, because it's irrelevant in this case. He claimed he was NOT a transsexual. His presence there, therefore, had nothing to do with the law.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

The same criteria for state prisons and Federal Prisons should be used. Got Penis you are a man you are classified a male and you go to male prision. Its absurd to allow transexuals into female bathrooms one of the most "personal" of places for real women when they are in fact a man and can perform like a man. Now add young girls into the mix.

This is already changing. There is a prison in Texas, I believe, that has a separate cell block just for transsexuals.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

The collective needs to look out for itself......do we really want a bunch more of these high risk of suicide sexually confused people running around?

This part of your post demonstrates just how little you understand about transsexuality. Just saying.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

By your own statement, it was undoubtedly someone who is anti-trans trying to attack the trans community. Has nothing to do with transsexuals in and of themselves. Just stupid anti-trans people.

He may very well have been attacking the trans community. Don't really know. I do know that, at least to me, what he did was make a statement about the laws and how it can affect reality. In this case someone that was not trans using the law as an excuse to go into the women's locker room. If the cops had been called he could have easily claimed that he was transgender and he'd have been let go.

As far as the rest, I pretty much agree. For those who have seen my discuss this issue, I am completely opposed to anyone who has not gone through surgery using the lockeroom of which they identify. You use what matches your genitals. As far as restrooms go, I am a little more lenient with that, but not much. My recommendation is that, again, one uses the restroom that matches their genitals, unless they CLEARLY present as the opposite gender. Also, I doubt any real transsexual is going to draw attention to themselves in situations like this.

Glad you agree, now if only we can get everyone else to agree. ;)

As for drawing attention to themselves, I don't rightly know. I have seen how the homosexual crowd went out of their way to show others that they were homosexual. Due to that I have no reason to believe that transsexuals wouldn't do the same if they wanted to. The only transsexual that I know personally doesn't go out of her way to draw attention to herself, but she also doesn't try to hide the fact either. Other people may very well consider that as "drawing attention". I don't, but others might.
 
Re: Moms Ask Man to Leave Seattle Locker Room While Their Swim Team Daughters Are Cha

This part of your post demonstrates just how little you understand about transsexuality. Just saying.

Are you disputing that the sexually confused have super high suicide rates?
 
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