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Camille Paglia: Hillary’s “blame-men-first” feminism may prove costly in 2016

cpwill

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I did not know that Hillary was wearing blue contact lenses to make herself a blue-eyed blond.

I am wondering what our resident Feminsts think of the article here, which is a discussion of Hillary as a Second Wave Feminist, and how that has effected her relationship with men and how she projects herself.


As a career woman, Hillary is rooted in second-wave feminism, which began with Betty Friedan’s co-founding of the National Organization for Women in 1967, while Hillary was in college. Friedan sought to draw men into the women’s movement and to ally with mainstream wives and mothers. But after a series of ideological struggles, she lost her leadership role and was eventually eclipsed in media attention by the more telegenic Gloria Steinem, who famously said, “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.”
Hillary has unfortunately adopted the Steinem brand of blame-men-first feminism, which defines women as perpetual victims requiring government protections. Hillary’s sometimes impatient or patronizing tone about men, which can perhaps be traced to key aspects of her personal history, may prove costly to her current campaign...

...Gennifer Flowers is no historical footnote but rather a ghostly twin, a lingering admonishment to Hillary of everything that second-wave feminism resentfully tried and failed to change in sexual relations. Perhaps it may be impossible for hard-driving career women, schooled in the curt, abrasive Northern style, to give an inch and show that they actually like men as they are. But a top-tier politician like Hillary Clinton is narrowing her presidential chances when she privileges elite professional women at men’s expense.
 
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I did not know that Hillary was wearing blue contact lenses to make herself a blue-eyed blond.

I am wondering what our resident Feminsts think of the article here, which is a discussion of Hillary as a Second Wave Feminist, and how that has effected her relationship with men and how she projects herself.

94290-I-did-not-know-that-gif-Waynes-Eu3m.gif
 
Wow, this is such a ****ty article.

Look at this asinine speculation...

Her rejection of Alinsky’s job offer and decision to enter Yale Law School instead (“I need three years of legal rigor”) suggested a newfound feminist determination to break from father figures.

Right, so she turned the job down to say "**** you" instead of maybe she just really though Yale Law School would be a better choice for herself?

The entire article appears to be just random and pretty useless speculation about how she hates men blah blah. Or how she dressed more feminine during her husbands candidacies. Wow, what a concept. That someone would dress nicer when they are constantly in the limelight and trying to portray themselves a certain way to voters.
 
I did not know that Hillary was wearing blue contact lenses to make herself a blue-eyed blond.

I am wondering what our resident Feminsts think of the article here, which is a discussion of Hillary as a Second Wave Feminist, and how that has effected her relationship with men and how she projects herself.

I used to love reading Paglia. Her Clinton hate-boner is strong.
 
Wow, this is such a ****ty article.

Look at this asinine speculation...



Right, so she turned the job down to say "**** you" instead of maybe she just really though Yale Law School would be a better choice for herself?

The entire article appears to be just random and pretty useless speculation about how she hates men blah blah. Or how she dressed more feminine during her husbands candidacies. Wow, what a concept. That someone would dress nicer when they are constantly in the limelight and trying to portray themselves a certain way to voters.

I quit reading Paglia in the late 90's because I began to recognize that her writing was nothing but a long-winded, acerbic screed designed to make herself look smarter than the rest of us. It got old.
 
I used to love reading Paglia. Her Clinton hate-boner is strong.

Never heard of her, but I found this lmao...

Nobody?s dummy - Salon.com
And where is all that lurid sexual fantasy coming from? When I watch Sarah Palin, I don’t think sex — I think Amazon warrior! I admire her competitive spirit and her exuberant vitality, which borders on the supernormal. The question that keeps popping up for me is whether Palin, who was born in Idaho, could possibly be part Native American (as we know her husband is), which sometimes seems suggested by her strong facial contours. I have felt that same extraordinary energy and hyper-alertness billowing out from other women with Native American ancestry — including two overpowering celebrity icons with whom I have worked.

One of the most idiotic allegations batting around out there among urban media insiders is that Palin is “dumb.” Are they kidding? What level of stupidity is now par for the course in those musty circles? (The value of Ivy League degrees, like sub-prime mortgages, has certainly been plummeting. As a Yale Ph.D., I have a perfect right to my scorn.) People who can’t see how smart Palin is are trapped in their own narrow parochialism — the tedious, hackneyed forms of their upper-middle-class syntax and vocabulary.

Many others listening to Sarah Palin at her debate went into conniptions about what they assailed as her incoherence or incompetence. But I was never in doubt about what she intended at any given moment. On the contrary, I was admiring not only her always shapely and syncopated syllables but the innate structures of her discourse — which did seem to fly by in fragments at times but are plainly ready to be filled with deeper policy knowledge, as she gains it ...

This is a tremendously talented politician whose moment has not yet come.

Holy ****, this lady is straight up crazy. I was wondering how crazy someone would have to be to write such ****, this answers it.
 
I did not know that Hillary was wearing blue contact lenses to make herself a blue-eyed blond.

I am wondering what our resident Feminsts think of the article here, which is a discussion of Hillary as a Second Wave Feminist, and how that has effected her relationship with men and how she projects herself.

There are a bazillions problems with this just in the first paragraph alone.

First of all, simply having a career does not automatically align anyone with anything. Women are people who go about their lives, not living political platforms onto which you can project whatever you want. We do not live our lives for the benefit of other people's soapboxes or masculine insecurity. We are not making a point simply by allowing ourselves to exist in public. We are just existing. It's people like this writer, and you, who are insisting on taking offence to our existence.

Secondly, if we're going to hold up Gloria Steinem as supposedly being a man-hater, then please explain to me why she married one. Any serious-minded reading of her work doesn't support any variation of the notion that she hated men or blamed men for everything.

Thirdly, saying that women do not require men to have their own lives is simply a fact, and the reverse is just as true (though no one ever questions the latter, which is why feminism doesn't address it -- men were already acknowledged as being self-sufficient people, whereas women were not, and some people get upset by the notion of women being self-sufficient even to this day, thus it bares repeating). Sorry if it offends you.

Moving swiftly on, and speaking more generally...

This article is basically trying to paint Hillary as some combination of a do-nothing and an infidel for not getting on with Southern sexism. It's hard to argue she's "done nothing" when she's served in two branches of government. It's not as though Bill cast all the votes for her. Spouses always help their loved ones, if they're any good, and some help much more than Bill has helped Hillary. Hell, there's an argument to be made that we've already had a female president (in fact if not title) in the form of Eleanor Roosevelt.

If Hillary was in fact an infidel to Southern sexism, quite frankly, why the **** should I care? Good for her.

Also, it is not Hillary who is claiming to be the beleaguered woman, but rather this article, which is claiming that literally everything she has ever done in her life was a feminist statement, and then taking this baseless claim and inserting some words into her mouth about it. It is true that Hillary has given some rather curt answers when asked blatantly sexist questions, but again, good for her, and that is hardly any reason for someone to make up an entire narrative about her life based on nothing but empty conjecture, and the belief that a woman existing is a political statement.

And, even if we assume this narrative is true, then all it does is paint a very bleak picture of what today's middle-to-senior aged women had to deal with to defend their identities, and how extreme the pressure really was. It does nothing to endear me to those tut-tut'ing her for trying to lead her own life. It's basically asking her to apologize for living in a sexist society and trying her best to manage that. Why, exactly?

And lastly, I would imagine that virtually anyone who would be considered part of Hillary's voting block would probably feel the same way. It's not as though she's been courting the conservative sexist vote, now is it. Unsurprisingly, she belongs to the party that includes most feminists. So...

By the by, this is coming from someone who wouldn't vote for Hillary for anything short of someone putting a gun to my head.

There are millions of completely valid critiques of Hillary Clinton. This is not one of them.
 
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By the by, this is coming from someone who wouldn't vote for Hillary for anything short of someone putting a gun to my head.

There are millions of completely valid critiques of Hillary Clinton. This is not one of them.

Very well put.
 
Never heard of her, but I found this lmao...

Nobody?s dummy - Salon.com


Holy ****, this lady is straight up crazy. I was wondering how crazy someone would have to be to write such ****, this answers it.

She's a self-styled, conservative lesbian with an Ivy League gig teaching Humanities. The lady is nothing but one large contradiction. :lol:

I read her a lot back when Bill was getting busted for all the Paula Jones through Monica crap. She made some good points back then...mostly by attacking the Bill and Hillary camp.
 
Never heard of her, but I found this lmao...

Nobody?s dummy - Salon.com


Holy ****, this lady is straight up crazy. I was wondering how crazy someone would have to be to write such ****, this answers it.

If you've never heard of Camille you must be pretty young.
It could explain the knee-jerk response to criticism of Hillary.
 
If you've never heard of Camille you must be pretty young.
It could explain the knee-jerk response to criticism of Hillary.

I'm 30. Knee-jerk response? It sounds like you want to complain about me judging the article without actually discussing the actual article. If you feel I criticized it unfairly, please inform me where I got it wrong.
 
I'm 30. Knee-jerk response? It sounds like you want to complain about me judging the article without actually discussing the actual article. If you feel I criticized it unfairly, please inform me where I got it wrong.

30?
That may be too young to judge what Paglia said about Hillary without having observed or read about Hillary prior to her WH years.
It sounded defensive.
 
30?
That may be too young to judge what Paglia said about Hillary without having observed or read about Hillary prior to her WH years.
It sounded defensive.

I can judge what was said in that article even if I had never read anything she has written prior to that article. What you're saying is completely illogical. I'm judging the words on the page, and meanings of the words don't change based on what she has said in the past. She could be the smartest and most unbiased person in the entire world, but it wouldn't change whether this article is well written or comprised of nothing but baseless speculation.

Also, I'd like to note that when pressed for where I criticized the article incorrectly, you responded with exactly 0 examples.

Thanks.
 
Secondly, if we're going to hold up Gloria Steinem as supposedly being a man-hater, then please explain to me why she married one. Any serious-minded reading of her work doesn't support any variation of the notion that she hated men or blamed men for everything.

Why is that surprising? It's not uncommon for women haters to get married to a woman and male haters to get married to a man. Hell, these days plenty of men go around calling men the problem, so it's not like she would struggle to find agreement on many of her points.
 
I can judge what was said in that article even if I had never read anything she has written prior to that article. What you're saying is completely illogical. I'm judging the words on the page, and meanings of the words don't change based on what she has said in the past. She could be the smartest and most unbiased person in the entire world, but it wouldn't change whether this article is well written or comprised of nothing but baseless speculation.

Also, I'd like to note that when pressed for where I criticized the article incorrectly, you responded with exactly 0 examples.

Thanks.

You said "The entire article appears to be just random and pretty useless speculation ..." and all I did was try to note that if you didn't know anything about Paglia and all you knew about Hillary was from her First Lady years then the speculation was yours.
 
You said "The entire article appears to be just random and pretty useless speculation ..." and all I did was try to note that if you didn't know anything about Paglia and all you knew about Hillary was from her First Lady years then the speculation was yours.

Right. She's allowed to say baseless crap with no facts or info to back it up, pure speculation, because she's old enough to have voted in the 90's. Thanks for that awesome input.
 
Right. She's allowed to say baseless crap with no facts or info to back it up, pure speculation, because she's old enough to have voted in the 90's. Thanks for that awesome input.

What did she say that don't you agree with?
And why do you think your observations could be better than hers despite you only having been born in the middle of her husband's Presidency?
After all, her piece was essentially her observations.
Her word choices indicated that.
Are you sure you're not being too defensive because it's Hillary?
 
What did she say that don't you agree with?
And why do you think your observations could be better than hers despite you only having been born in the middle of her husband's Presidency?
After all, her piece was essentially her observations.
Her word choices indicated that.
Are you sure you're not being too defensive because it's Hillary?

Sorry, but if your only line of attack is "you're young therefor you can't have an opinion/must be wrong", then you have fun with that. It's laughable.

It has nothing to do with Hillary, I've already attacked her in this very thread. It has to do with baseless speculation. I'm sorry that you don't understand that, but I've done all I can to simplify it for you.
 
Sorry, but if your only line of attack is "you're young therefor you can't have an opinion/must be wrong", then you have fun with that. It's laughable.

It has nothing to do with Hillary, I've already attacked her in this very thread. It has to do with baseless speculation. I'm sorry that you don't understand that, but I've done all I can to simplify it for you.

Nope.
It's because your challenge to what Paglia said seemed to have been built on a shaky foundation.
Whether what she said was right or wrong, what do you know about Hillary that challenges what Paglia said?
 
Nope.
It's because your challenge to what Paglia said seemed to have been built on a shaky foundation.
Whether what she said was right or wrong, what do you know about Hillary that challenges what Paglia said?

It's her job to back up her baseless assertions, not my job to debunk them.

You might want to do some research. You might just be too young t have heard of the concept of burden of proof.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof
 
It's her job to back up her baseless assertions, not my job to debunk them.

You might want to do some research. You might just be too young t have heard of the concept of burden of proof.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof

She made it clear they were observations.
If I said after watching Barack Obama for 8 years that I observed that his ingratiating mannerisms were acquired phony affectations would you demand evidence?
 
She made it clear they were observations.
If I said after watching Barack Obama for 8 years that I observed that his ingratiating mannerisms were acquired phony affectations would you demand evidence?

I would ask if you have any evidence to back up your assertion, and when you said no I would tell you "my, that's a nice opinion that you have." Because that's all it is, opinion. And when I voice my opinion on what she wrote, the proper response is not "well you're just a youngin'..."

She wrote an article where she acts like she knows what is in Hillary's mind at every moment and knows the inner workings of her mind regarding every major life decision she's ever made. It's laughable to anyone looking at it objectively.

In her 2008 campaign, Hillary was widely mocked for having fabricated a dramatic story about her and Chelsea running for cover under sniper fire after landing in war-torn Bosnia. In admitting she had misspoken, Hillary claimed she had been “sleep-deprived” at her Washington press conference.
But surely that overwrought action-adventure tale was a strange flashback to an episode from Hillary’s youth, as reported by Mr. Bernstein: the usually stingy Hugh Rodham had once treated his wife and daughter to a shopping spree at a New York department store. Under tight time pressure from Hugh, the two women pulled off their shoes and ran laughing and barefoot together through the store. The non-existent Bosnian sniper fire may have been a shadowy memory of the strafing dictates of an authoritarian father, against whom mother and daughter were united in conspiratorial defiance.

Are you seriously saying that the above paragraph isn't just outright nonsense? Do you really think that "surely" it's more likely that when Hillary lied/mispoke about the sniper fire that she was instead having a flashback to a traumatic shopping spree she had as a child with her parents?

I'm sorry, but this kind of **** is silly. It's insane. It's laughable. If you can't see it then I feel really sorry for you.
 
I am wondering what our resident Feminsts think of the article here, which is a discussion of Hillary as a Second Wave Feminist, and how that has effected her relationship with men and how she projects herself.

What must be observed first in any discussion of Paglia is that she has always described herself as a "dissident feminist." After decades of disliking her, I reached rapprochement with Paglia around 2007 and have appreciated her insights on our pioneer forebears.

I think she makes a provocative argument here. You might like this: 2016 Election: What a Woman President Should Be Like
 
I would ask if you have any evidence to back up your assertion
, and when you said no I would tell you "my, that's a nice opinion that you have." Because that's all it is, opinion. And when I voice my opinion on what she wrote, the proper response is not "well you're just a youngin'..."

She wrote an article where she acts like she knows what is in Hillary's mind at every moment and knows the inner workings of her mind regarding every major life decision she's ever made. It's laughable to anyone looking at it objectively.



Are you seriously saying that the above paragraph isn't just outright nonsense? Do you really think that "surely" it's more likely that when Hillary lied/mispoke about the sniper fire that she was instead having a flashback to a traumatic shopping spree she had as a child with her parents?

I'm sorry, but this kind of **** is silly. It's insane. It's laughable. If you can't see it then I feel really sorry for you.

Here's what I consider evidence of what I said about Obama's affectations.
Others might not agree ... maybe because they haven't been paying attention, or maybe because their personal biases require they say it's trivial, or maybe because other's personal biases caused them to notice them. But they're still there nonetheless.
obama smiling.jpg obama - looks - all frames.jpg

Well, as for what you called nonsense, you and I might simply say Hillary's a liar ... period.
But I suspect even unreconstructed liars like Hillary had to have had her psyche formed by events/people earlier in life.
Perhaps Paglia was offering what she considers reasons ... she does have quite a diverse background.
 
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