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Sexism against men.

CLAX1911

CLAX1911

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Before the feminists rant and rave about the MRI or whatever, this is truly about sexism against men so heart me out.

I have a friend named James. He had been dating a fellow named Will for a few years. I've known James for many years, I met Will shortly after James did. Well seemed like an easy going fellow, only two years older than James who just turned forty last year. They got married in August. And after nearly four years his relationship changed. Just before they were married James was laid off.

He took a job as a valet. And all the sudden things changed. Anyway Will became extremely verbally abusive toward James in my presence. It got to the point I didn't want to see Will when I visited with James. I used to see him every day and now he disappears for weeks at a time no calls or anything. I got a call last week from him. He needed a ride to the hospital. He had a work related injury. Before I took him home he literally broke down to tears. Turns out Will has been abusing him. I try to talk him into staying with us. But he is scared because well would know exactly where to look. I try to tell him Will would regret starting things with us. But he must go back home. So I call the domestic abuse hotlines and they almost laugh at me when I explain.

Why is it a laughing matter when domestic abuse is directed at men?
 
Who is laughing?
 
CLAX1911 said:
Before the feminists rant and rave about the MRI or whatever, this is truly about sexism against men so heart me out.

I have a friend named James. He had been dating a fellow named Will for a few years. I've known James for many years, I met Will shortly after James did. Well seemed like an easy going fellow, only two years older than James who just turned forty last year. They got married in August. And after nearly four years his relationship changed. Just before they were married James was laid off.

He took a job as a valet. And all the sudden things changed. Anyway Will became extremely verbally abusive toward James in my presence. It got to the point I didn't want to see Will when I visited with James. I used to see him every day and now he disappears for weeks at a time no calls or anything. I got a call last week from him. He needed a ride to the hospital. He had a work related injury. Before I took him home he literally broke down to tears. Turns out Will has been abusing him. I try to talk him into staying with us. But he is scared because well would know exactly where to look. I try to tell him Will would regret starting things with us. But he must go back home. So I call the domestic abuse hotlines and they almost laugh at me when I explain.

Why is it a laughing matter when domestic abuse is directed at men?
Click to expand...

It's not a laughing matter, however, it is just generally understood (or maybe I should say believed) that men are often in better position to defend themselves physically than women are.

This wouldn't be an example of sexism, though, if the response would be the same had this involved a lesbian couple (which I guess there's no way to know that).
 
X Factor said:
It's not a laughing matter, however, it is just generally understood (or maybe I should say believed) that men are often in better position to defend themselves physically than women are.
Click to expand...
Yeah sexism.

This wouldn't be an example of sexism, though, if the response would be the same had this involved a lesbian couple (which I guess there's no way to know that).
Click to expand...
Yes it is. They wouldn't have laughed if my friend was female.
 
Because why not just press charges for assault? I'm not sure what purpose those hotlines serve, unless kids are involved or the victim has nowhere to go
 
There is a culturally inability to appreciate domestic abuse toward men.

The victims of abuse often do not retaliate. There is no relevance if the victim can overpower the aggressor when the victim does not choose to try.
 
CLAX1911 said:
James has nowhere to go.
Click to expand...

You do understand that homosexual or heterosexual it does not matter, that is a common response that ends up just as problematic. Saying one has no where to go, in this case means staying in abuse.

Worse, abuse tends to get worse and rarely if ever really disappears. If he is truly your friend, you will encourage him to seek help and leave. Which is the same advice I would give to any man or woman in any abusive relationship no matter if gay, lesbian or straight.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Before the feminists rant and rave about the MRI or whatever, this is truly about sexism against men so heart me out.

I have a friend named James. He had been dating a fellow named Will for a few years. I've known James for many years, I met Will shortly after James did. Well seemed like an easy going fellow, only two years older than James who just turned forty last year. They got married in August. And after nearly four years his relationship changed. Just before they were married James was laid off.

He took a job as a valet. And all the sudden things changed. Anyway Will became extremely verbally abusive toward James in my presence. It got to the point I didn't want to see Will when I visited with James. I used to see him every day and now he disappears for weeks at a time no calls or anything. I got a call last week from him. He needed a ride to the hospital. He had a work related injury. Before I took him home he literally broke down to tears. Turns out Will has been abusing him. I try to talk him into staying with us. But he is scared because well would know exactly where to look. I try to tell him Will would regret starting things with us. But he must go back home. So I call the domestic abuse hotlines and they almost laugh at me when I explain.

Why is it a laughing matter when domestic abuse is directed at men?
Click to expand...

Because our culture blames the abused for their abuser's actions. Being abused makes you "weak." If you're a woman, many people already assume you're weak anyway, so being abused simply confirms their pre-existing belief. But if you're a man, "weak" is the worst thing you could ever be, since it is both considered to be your fault, and it is also a "feminine" sort of weakness, and "femininity" is inherently inferior in their minds. So, men who are abused are mocked in our culture.

The entire train of logic behind is so deeply sexist in many different ways, and deeply entrenched in victim blame culture.

We all live in this culture, and none of us, no matter how self-aware, are completely free of the things it has engrained in us. Unfortunately, that can include people who work in abuse centers. Which is pretty frickin' horrible -- if I worked in abuse center, I'd focus extra hard on making sure my view of abuse was as free of negative cultural training as possible. But not everyone is that self-aware, and not everyone cares.

There are male-focused, and in some cases even LGBT-focused abuse resources in some places. I hope you're able to find someone who can help. Reach deep in your social circle and see if you can find someone who can find a place for him to go that Will won't suspect. Look into restraining orders. Look into everything.

I really hope James can get out of this situation soon. It is so common for abuse victims to feel trapped in their situation.
 
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OrphanSlug said:
You do understand that homosexual or heterosexual it does not matter, that is a common response that ends up just as problematic. Saying one has no where to go, in this case means staying in abuse.
Click to expand...
Well he doesn't think he has anywhere to go. That isn't true he could stay with us.

Worse, abuse tends to get worse and rarely if ever really disappears. If he is truly your friend, you will encourage him to seek help and leave. Which is the same advice I would give to any man or woman in any abusive relationship no matter if gay, lesbian or straight.
Click to expand...
Our time in the hospital had an effect on him I think. He has called me every day since then. I give encouraging words. Hopefully any minute he'll ask for help.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Because our culture blames the abused for their abuser's actions. Being abused makes you "weak." If you're a woman, many people already assume you're weak anyway, so being abused simply confirms their pre-existing belief. But if you're a man, "weak" is the worst thing you could ever be, since it is both considered to be your fault, and it is also a "feminine" sort of weakness, and "femininity" is inherently inferior in their minds. So, men who are abused are mocked in our culture.

The entire train of logic behind is so deeply sexist in many different ways, and deeply entrenched in victim blame culture.

We all live in this culture, and none of us, no matter how self-aware, are completely free of the things it has engrained in us. Unfortunately, that can include people who work in abuse centers. Which is pretty frickin' horrible -- if I worked in abuse center, I'd focus extra hard on making sure my view of abuse was as free of negative cultural training as possible. But not everyone is that self-aware, and not everyone cares.

There are male-focused, and in some cases even LGBT-focused abuse resources in some places. I hope you're able to find someone who can help. Reach deep in your social circle and see if you can find someone who can find a place for him to go that Will won't suspect. Look into restraining orders. Look into everything.

I really hope James can get out of this situation soon. It is so common for abuse victims to feel trapped in their situation.
Click to expand...
I let him know every time he talks that he has a place to stay with me. My family loves him and it won't be imposing. I found lgbt specific groups in Houston so hopefully he'll have more support.

Thanks for your concern.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Before the feminists rant and rave about the MRI or whatever, this is truly about sexism against men so heart me out.

I have a friend named James. He had been dating a fellow named Will for a few years. I've known James for many years, I met Will shortly after James did. Well seemed like an easy going fellow, only two years older than James who just turned forty last year. They got married in August. And after nearly four years his relationship changed. Just before they were married James was laid off.

He took a job as a valet. And all the sudden things changed. Anyway Will became extremely verbally abusive toward James in my presence. It got to the point I didn't want to see Will when I visited with James. I used to see him every day and now he disappears for weeks at a time no calls or anything. I got a call last week from him. He needed a ride to the hospital. He had a work related injury. Before I took him home he literally broke down to tears. Turns out Will has been abusing him. I try to talk him into staying with us. But he is scared because well would know exactly where to look. I try to tell him Will would regret starting things with us. But he must go back home. So I call the domestic abuse hotlines and they almost laugh at me when I explain.

Why is it a laughing matter when domestic abuse is directed at men?
Click to expand...

Frankly, I'm surprised that people would still feel that way even with regard to a homosexual relationship.

Sure. I can see people laughing off female on male abuse (justified or not). However, when you're talking about a male homosexual couple, that's no where remotely near the same dynamic.

They're clearly just not thinking their way through things.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Before the feminists rant and rave about the MRI or whatever, this is truly about sexism against men so heart me out.

I have a friend named James. He had been dating a fellow named Will for a few years. I've known James for many years, I met Will shortly after James did. Well seemed like an easy going fellow, only two years older than James who just turned forty last year. They got married in August. And after nearly four years his relationship changed. Just before they were married James was laid off.

He took a job as a valet. And all the sudden things changed. Anyway Will became extremely verbally abusive toward James in my presence. It got to the point I didn't want to see Will when I visited with James. I used to see him every day and now he disappears for weeks at a time no calls or anything. I got a call last week from him. He needed a ride to the hospital. He had a work related injury. Before I took him home he literally broke down to tears. Turns out Will has been abusing him. I try to talk him into staying with us. But he is scared because well would know exactly where to look. I try to tell him Will would regret starting things with us. But he must go back home. So I call the domestic abuse hotlines and they almost laugh at me when I explain.

Why is it a laughing matter when domestic abuse is directed at men?
Click to expand...

It's not unusual for the dynamic to change when one partner loses their job. The abuser may simply be predatory in nature and is now taking advantage of the unemployed person's vulnerability. Hell, for all we know he set his partner up to fail in his job so that he would be laid off and vulnerable. It's not unusual for an abuser to sabotage his victim's ability to escape, cutting off his income would definitely be a first step.

IMO, your friend has to get out of there. And, you're right, there probably is not system in place to help men get away from abusive relationships.
 
calamity said:
It's not unusual for the dynamic to change when one partner loses their job. The abuser may simply be predatory in nature and is now taking advantage of the unemployed person's vulnerability. Hell, for all we know he set his partner up to fail in his job so that he would be laid off and vulnerable. It's not unusual for an abuser to sabotage his victim's ability to escape, cutting off his income would definitely be a first step.

IMO, your friend has to get out of there. And, you're right, there probably is not system in place to help men get away from abusive relationships.
Click to expand...

The only help I've managed to find is with an lgbt group. But that isn't really good. What about people who aren't lgbt? The group will gladly help them but there is a stigma associated with it for some folks.
 
Gathomas88 said:
Frankly, I'm surprised that people would still feel that way even with regard to a homosexual relationship.

Sure. I can see people laughing off female on male abuse (justified or not). However, when you're talking about a male homosexual couple, that's no where remotely near the same dynamic.

They're clearly just not thinking their way through things.
Click to expand...

The only help out there is geared toward homosexuals. I was on the phone a little while ago and it surprised me to hear about lesbian couples have this issue as well.

But men that are heterosexual have issues as well. Domestic violence isn't limited to spousal issues.
 
CLAX1911 said:
The only help I've managed to find is with an lgbt group. But that isn't really good. What about people who aren't lgbt? The group will gladly help them but there is a stigma associated with it for some folks.
Click to expand...

Does the friend really want to leave and can't or is he waffling, someone holding onto hope that things will change for the better?

1. If A, then he should take the lgbt help, as should anyone else in that situation

2. If B, there is not much you or anyone else can do.
 
calamity said:
Does the friend really want to leave and can't or is he waffling, someone holding onto hope that things will change for the better?

1. If A, then he should take the lgbt help, as should anyone else in that situation

2. If B, there is not much you or anyone else can do.
Click to expand...

I think he is starting to see the reality. He feels helpless. Every aspect of his life has been dominated by this fellow.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I think he is starting to see the reality. He feels helpless. Every aspect of his life has been dominated by this fellow.
Click to expand...

Main characteristic of an abuser.
 
CLAX1911 said:
The only help out there is geared toward homosexuals. I was on the phone a little while ago and it surprised me to hear about lesbian couples have this issue as well.

But men that are heterosexual have issues as well. Domestic violence isn't limited to spousal issues.
Click to expand...

I'm not denying any of that. I simply can't fathom why anyone would find this to be a "laughing matter."

No offense meant, or anything, but even with my "cultural biases," the first thing my mind jumps to when I think of "gay domestic abuse" is something akin to what you might see in a prison movie... Which is pretty damn serious. It's not even remotely in the same ballpark as the kinds of negative snap judgments (again, justified or no) I might make regarding a man who allowed himself to be physically abused by his wife or girlfriend.
 
Gathomas88 said:
I'm not denying any of that. I simply can't fathom why anyone would find this to be a "laughing matter."

No offense meant, or anything, but even with my "cultural biases," the first thing my mind jumps to when I think of "gay domestic abuse" is something akin to what you might see in a prison movie... Which is pretty damn serious. It's not even remotely in the same ballpark as the kinds of negative snap judgments (again, justified or no) I might make regarding a man who allowed himself to be physically abused by his wife or girlfriend.
Click to expand...

The ability to overpower someone who is physically abusing you is irrelevant if you do not elect to retaliate.
 
Gathomas88 said:
I'm not denying any of that. I simply can't fathom why anyone would find this to be a "laughing matter."

No offense meant, or anything, but even with my "cultural biases," the first thing my mind jumps to when I think of "gay domestic abuse" is something akin to what you might see in a prison movie... Which is pretty damn serious. It's not even remotely in the same ballpark as the kinds of negative snap judgments (again, justified or no) I might make regarding a man who allowed himself to be physically abused by his wife or girlfriend.
Click to expand...

I didn't take offense. It is strange that people jump to conclusions.
 
Gathomas88 said:
I'm not denying any of that. I simply can't fathom why anyone would find this to be a "laughing matter."

No offense meant, or anything, but even with my "cultural biases," the first thing my mind jumps to when I think of "gay domestic abuse" is something akin to what you might see in a prison movie... Which is pretty damn serious. It's not even remotely in the same ballpark as the kinds of negative snap judgments (again, justified or no) I might make regarding a man who allowed himself to be physically abused by his wife or girlfriend.
Click to expand...

Because you don't experience with either, therefore it's best to withhold judgment. I've done research work on ex cons and can assure you that plenty of women take advantage of the belief the guy will not fight back (he will break parole then and none will believe he didn't instigate) or he won't report it. I've seen guys talk of their girlfriend attacking him the moment he walks in the door and shoving him down the stairs before he can even react. Then some are even attacked in their sleep.

With gay couples, there is often one who is much smaller than the other, or sometimes there's blackmail potential, so abuse can happen.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Before the feminists rant and rave about the MRI or whatever, this is truly about sexism against men so heart me out.

I have a friend named James. He had been dating a fellow named Will for a few years. I've known James for many years, I met Will shortly after James did. Well seemed like an easy going fellow, only two years older than James who just turned forty last year. They got married in August. And after nearly four years his relationship changed. Just before they were married James was laid off.

He took a job as a valet. And all the sudden things changed. Anyway Will became extremely verbally abusive toward James in my presence. It got to the point I didn't want to see Will when I visited with James. I used to see him every day and now he disappears for weeks at a time no calls or anything. I got a call last week from him. He needed a ride to the hospital. He had a work related injury. Before I took him home he literally broke down to tears. Turns out Will has been abusing him. I try to talk him into staying with us. But he is scared because well would know exactly where to look. I try to tell him Will would regret starting things with us. But he must go back home. So I call the domestic abuse hotlines and they almost laugh at me when I explain.

Why is it a laughing matter when domestic abuse is directed at men?
Click to expand...

This is a problem with domestic violence period and this organization that claims to offer help, not with feminism. You should learn what feminism in general has to say about intimate partner violence, sexual assault against men, etc. In fact feminists are often such male victims' biggest supporters, because it is patriarchy that can keep male victims even more silenced than female victims.
 
OrphanSlug said:
You do understand that homosexual or heterosexual it does not matter, that is a common response that ends up just as problematic. Saying one has no where to go, in this case means staying in abuse.

Worse, abuse tends to get worse and rarely if ever really disappears. If he is truly your friend, you will encourage him to seek help and leave. Which is the same advice I would give to any man or woman in any abusive relationship no matter if gay, lesbian or straight.
Click to expand...

Let's not pretend as if gay males in an abusive relationship are given 1/10th the respect or 1/10th the help that straight women in the same situation would be.

When I went to a Walmart in the middle of the night and had them call the cops - the officer had no problem, no slight hesitation, in driving me to a safe home with my kids in tow. They didn't look down on me or question my femininity and strength as a woman as a result.

But in a situation with a gay male - his maturity, masculinity, and strength as a man would be brought into quesiton.

Your 'I don't get it' response to the OP's post highlights the very issue that the OP is bringing up: there is a deep and extreme bias against males in abusive situations in this country - especially if they're gay.

I had family who was able ot take me in . . . but gay males usually don't'. Many gay men are shunned from family or mistreated to the point where there's really no difference between abusive states, it's just different people being a dick.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Let's not pretend as if gay males in an abusive relationship are given 1/10th the respect or 1/10th the help that straight women in the same situation would be.

When I went to a Walmart in the middle of the night and had them call the cops - the officer had no problem, no slight hesitation, in driving me to a safe home with my kids in tow. They didn't look down on me or question my femininity and strength as a woman as a result.

But in a situation with a gay male - his maturity, masculinity, and strength as a man would be brought into quesiton.

Your 'I don't get it' response to the OP's post highlights the very issue that the OP is bringing up: there is a deep and extreme bias against males in abusive situations in this country - especially if they're gay.

I had family who was able ot take me in . . . but gay males usually don't'. Many gay men are shunned from family or mistreated to the point where there's really no difference between abusive states, it's just different people being a dick.
Click to expand...


I think that is quite often true with lesbians too. The police do not know how to respond properly to same-gender domestic abuse.
 
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