Does it raise red flags.

I am not a Communist -- maybe I would have been one 150 years ago. I mean different red flags.

If a man shows too much interest in gender issues -- particularly their effect on his gender, does it raise red flags? Would it make him a lot of enemies? Would it make it harder for him to make even male friends?

It depends on the issue and situation, most likely. If a guy who works as a teacher is extremely vocal about how much harsher a sentence is for a male teacher sleeping with an underage student than for a female teacher, to me that raises a giant red flag made of smaller red flags depicting red flags made of smaller red flags, on a backdrop of red flags, with a bunch of regular sized red flags mounted on the flagpole of the main red flag. With flashing red lights and super loud sirens. RED sirens, no less!

If a guy is really big on keeping abortion legal, that might discreetly show a red bandana to me, but it certainly doesn't wave a red flag.

I don’t see why it should make any more or less difference than someone (male or female) showing “too much” (whatever that means) interest in any single category of issues. In general I don’t think close interest in a particular area should be of concern alone but it could be one of a set of characteristics, statements and actions that lead to concern.

Expressing an opinion on pretty much anything can cost friends and make enemies but that’s life. The friends worth having will overlook a few difference of opinion anyway.

SCitizen said:

I am not a Communist -- maybe I would have been one 150 years ago. I mean different red flags.

If a man shows too much interest in gender issues -- particularly their effect on his gender, does it raise red flags? Would it make him a lot of enemies? Would it make it harder for him to make even male friends?

Click to expand...

you'd have to be more specific . . .
the answer im sure is circumstantial

HonestJoe said:

I don’t see why it should make any more or less difference than someone (male or female) showing “too much” (whatever that means) interest in any single category of issues. In general I don’t think close interest in a particular area should be of concern alone but it could be one of a set of characteristics, statements and actions that lead to concern.

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Thanks -- anyone who has strongly unpopular opinions will attract hostility.

SCitizen said:

I am not a Communist -- maybe I would have been one 150 years ago. I mean different red flags.

If a man shows too much interest in gender issues -- particularly their effect on his gender, does it raise red flags? Would it make him a lot of enemies? Would it make it harder for him to make even male friends?

Click to expand...

Uh, depends.

Are we talking about people who just can't get off their soap box for 5 minutes? It's not necessarily a "red flag," but it can be really obnoxious. Anyone overly obsessed with anything can be off-putting. I'm really into gender issues myself, but there are people who are so obsessed with it that I find them unbearable to be around even if, overall, I agree with them. Everything is about transhomonorativecentrism, their whole lives revolve around classifying everything, and they get offended when you debate them. There was actually a guy who contacted me on a dating site recently that I chose not to hang out with for exactly that reason. Even though his positions in and of themselves weren't off-putting to me, he had such a degree of snootiness and obsession about it that I wanted to put my head through my screen by the time I finished reading his profile.

Are we talking about MRA's? Yeah, that's a big red flag. They're basically the most extreme form of sexist I've ever seen in my lifetime, doing everything from condoning men who murder women to running campaigns that try to legalize domestic violence. They're mostly basement dwellers who feel a need to take vengeance on 21st century women for feeling empowered to say no to sleeping with them. Any man who considers himself an MRA, I consider to be a potential abuser, because most of the ones I've seen are.

A man who's just generally into gender issues, and thinks about how they apply to him? No, that's not a red flag. It might be a good thing. I've dated men like that and had some really interesting conversations, and even had them call me out a few times on things I've internalized. We're all affected by this culture, no matter how much of an activist we are. I need to be checked once in a while as much as anyone. And so do they.

But equally, I've met men who aren't necessarily big activists on gender issues, but do have sort of a innate understanding of the forces in play. And there's something I really like about them too. The way they handle how gender issues can affect a relationship has a really natural sort of flow to it that I kind of appreciate.

SmokeAndMirrors said:

Are we talking about MRA's? Yeah, that's a big red flag.

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I understand that my concern about discrimination against men and hatred against men in Mainstream Media is a red flag for many, but we would not be silenced.

SCitizen said:

I understand that my concern about discrimination against men and hatred against men in Mainstream Media is a red flag for many, but we would not be silenced.

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:roll:

There is no "hatred against men." MRA's insist on promoting sexism and even violence against women, and people understandably don't like them. Women understandably stay away from them. It isn't "hatred against men" to call violent-minded psychos what they are. It's understandable opposition to a specific group of people who promote such violent-mindedness. Most men are not MRA's.

You know, in the very early days of the MRA's, I found them really interesting. They were talking about stuff like alimony and custody inequality, and wanted to work with feminists.

They understood that things like this had nothing to do with feminism. It's not feminism that believes women can't take care of themselves, or that men make crappy parents. It's patriarchy that believes those things.

The problem was that, when we gave women legal rights, we didn't fix the sexism within the system itself. That sexism was already there. Feminism didn't put it there.

And back then -- 10 years ago or so -- that's what MRA's were talking about. This weird, limping legal system that had not been fully initiated into equality.

It's an absolute shame that it's been hijacked by a bunch of whining misogynists. It could have been a really helpful and enlightening group of people that could have fought against all of the most damaging patriarchal stereotypes against men. It could have been the group that helped bring down male suicide, equalize the courts, and heal relations with the rest of the broader gender issues spectrum.

And instead it just turned into a bunch of ranting maniacs who occasionally shoot up women at college dorms and then cry about no one liking them.

I would encourage the men of the early MRA era to separate themselves and form a new group that is dedicated to actually discussing men's issues, rather than protecting psychos and whining about their lost privilege to rape women.

SmokeAndMirrors said:

There is no "hatred against men."

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Except for thousands of articles like It’s time to consider a curfew for men and a lovely article in Wall Street Journal.

SmokeAndMirrors said:

MRA's insist on promoting sexism and even violence against women

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I never promoted anything illegal. Yet feminists (not all feminists of course) promote lovely films like Monster glorifying a serial killer of men.

SCitizen said:

Except for thousands of articles like It’s time to consider a curfew for men and a lovely article in Wall Street Journal.

I never promoted anything illegal. Yet feminists (not all feminists of course) promote lovely films like Monster glorifying a serial killer of men.

Click to expand...

And I could just as easily pull up literally millions of posts by MRA's like this guy who go way further than that. Promoting domestic violence to keep women "in their place" as a model for how heterosexual relationships should function. Promoting the killing of women who commit infidelity. Promoting killing of women simply for being women. Promoting the kidnapping of children. Promoting literal female slavery.

Even those who don't promote it outrightly make excuses for the people who do it. How many articles did you see on your MRA blogs after Ellis shot up his college campus, going on about, "Well, that's what happens when evil sluts refuse to **** such a nice guy. How can you blame him?" How many of those did you see?

It is no wonder people hate them so much. They're detestable.

You can find a handful of people from any movement who promote really out-there and bad things, from gun rights to gay rights to feminism. But the MRA blogosphere is composed almost entirely of people who promote even worse things than the worst of those groups. And so great is their cowardice that the only time they ever show their faces in public is when they're murdering people.

The Southern Poverty Law Center lists almost all of the most popular MRA blogs as hate sites.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2012/misogyny-sites

And for every obviously good reason. As the quotes from those sites show in the report, so many of them promote rape, violence, and slavery.

Even though it is my job to point out hatred of men and discrimination against men to a wide audience I have done nothing wrong.

Most women like most men are great people, but I understand that female perpetrators of violence against their partners and children as well as anyone who hates men so much as to believe we should not have Freedom of Speech have a vested interest in portraying me as a moral criminal. I rest my case in this thread.

SCitizen said:

Even though it is my job to point out hatred of men and discrimination against men to a wide audience I have done nothing wrong.

Most women like most men are great people, but I understand that female perpetrators of violence against their partners and children as well as anyone who hates men so much as to believe we should not have Freedom of Speech have a vested interest in portraying me as a moral criminal. I rest my case in this thread.

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...And yet you have no response to the dozens of statements of hate and promotion of violence I showed coming from all of the most popular MRA sites.

No one is trying to take away your speech. But you having free speech does not entitle you to have everyone agree with you. We have just as much free speech as you do. Live with it.

You are defending people who promote and commit violence against women simply because women have a right to say no. You shouldn't expect people to simply nod along with you.

This self-pity over imaginary slights is just sad. If you are unhappy with your life, stand up and do something. Women haven't done anything to you.

Personally? I absolutely adore men. But I have no time for MRA's who defend such vile nonsense and spend so much time pitying themselves while doing nothing to improve their lives. However, most men are not MRA's, and virtually none in my dating pool. So it affects me and my view of men as a whole not in the slightest.

:shrug:

I can handle a bit of conversation on the subject every now and then. If we're talking about a woman who has "Feminism" (particularly of the overtly ideological variety) as a core aspect of her identity, however, I'm afraid that it simply wouldn't make for a very good match.

I'm not real big on "Isms" in general. I'm not of a mind to be constantly preached to either, thank you very much. Besides, I like my balls intact, and precisely where they are now. I would very much prefer that they remain as such.

As far as the opposite extreme goes, my feelings are mixed. While I don't really follow any of them, I think the "Meninist" arguments I have been exposed to over the years occasionally make some valid points. They simply happen to be made in such a shrill manner that it isn't exactly conducive to their message. They often tend to be paired with total nonsense as well.

Worse than some of the whackier variants of feminism out there? I don't think so.

Still, however, a lot of the same applies. I wouldn't want to hang out with a rabid MRA anymore than I would a rabid feminista. There are simply better things to spend one's time talking about.

Now... Find me someone with a head for international affairs, and maybe we can talk turkey! :mrgreen:

SCitizen said:

Even though it is my job to point out hatred of men and discrimination against men to a wide audience I have done nothing wrong.

Most women like most men are great people, but I understand that female perpetrators of violence against their partners and children as well as anyone who hates men so much as to believe we should not have Freedom of Speech have a vested interest in portraying me as a moral criminal. I rest my case in this thread.

Click to expand...

You should consider the possibility that what you might perceive to be "hatred of men" is often nothing of the sort.

SmokeAndMirrors said:

:roll:

There is no "hatred against men." MRA's insist on promoting sexism and even violence against women, and people understandably don't like them. Women understandably stay away from them. It isn't "hatred against men" to call violent-minded psychos what they are. It's understandable opposition to a specific group of people who promote such violent-mindedness. Most men are not MRA's.

You know, in the very early days of the MRA's, I found them really interesting. They were talking about stuff like alimony and custody inequality, and wanted to work with feminists.

They understood that things like this had nothing to do with feminism. It's not feminism that believes women can't take care of themselves, or that men make crappy parents. It's patriarchy that believes those things.

The problem was that, when we gave women legal rights, we didn't fix the sexism within the system itself. That sexism was already there. Feminism didn't put it there.

And back then -- 10 years ago or so -- that's what MRA's were talking about. This weird, limping legal system that had not been fully initiated into equality.

It's an absolute shame that it's been hijacked by a bunch of whining misogynists. It could have been a really helpful and enlightening group of people that could have fought against all of the most damaging patriarchal stereotypes against men. It could have been the group that helped bring down male suicide, equalize the courts, and heal relations with the rest of the broader gender issues spectrum.

And instead it just turned into a bunch of ranting maniacs who occasionally shoot up women at college dorms and then cry about no one liking them.

I would encourage the men of the early MRA era to separate themselves and form a new group that is dedicated to actually discussing men's issues, rather than protecting psychos and whining about their lost privilege to rape women.

Click to expand...

To be honest I have no idea what the mra is. Nor do I care. What I found interesting was something you said. I never thought about it before. Sexism exists feminism is a response to it. Instead of focusing on the actual Sexism that exists things like this only perpetuate it.

Interesting point. Well stated.

CLAX1911 said:

To be honest I have no idea what the mra is.

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The MRA is down there with ISIS and the KKK as the scum of the earth.

Nor do I care.

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Then you would be wise to listen.

What I found interesting was something you said. I never thought about it before. Sexism exists feminism is a response to it. Instead of focusing on the actual Sexism that exists things like this only perpetuate it.

Interesting point. Well stated.

Click to expand...