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Pursue Someone Already in a Relationship?

Would you?

  • I'm male, and yes I would, in all scenarios

    Votes: 1 4.3%

  • I'm male, and yes I would, but only in Scenario 1

    Votes: 5 21.7%

  • I'm male, and no, I would not

    Votes: 14 60.9%

  • I'm female, and I would, in all scenarios

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I'm female, and yes I would, but only in Scenario 1

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I'm female, andno, I would not

    Votes: 3 13.0%
  • Total voters
    23
Hawkeye10 said:
I have no idea what you think you are talking about. I explained with some detail why I only care about what the person I am dealing with wants, not what everyone else in their life wants.

with a few exceptions "crappy" is left up to each person to define for themselves. I want everyone to have what they want, and the closer each person is to me the more I care about what they want and feel an obligation to help them get what they want. I care about what the woman I am having sex with wants a whole lot more than what her husband wants, for example.
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And other people disagree with you and think that's a bunch of self-justifying BS that lets you pretend you somehow weren't involved in a situation you explicitly created. We're allowed to think that. This is a debate forum, dude.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
True, but that's beside the point being made.

In both the restaurant and the tobacco field, the seller is going deliberately out of his way to enable someone else's self-destructive behavior. Cheating on an exclusive relationship is, of course, also self-destructive.
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The difference is that cheating is pretty much always wrong. Eating a cheeseburger or smoking a cigarette is not. It's only wrong if people approach it in the wrong way.
 
Gathomas88 said:
When you encourage someone to cheat with you on their significant other, on the other hand, you're basically going deliberately out of your way to enable something which is by definition, deceitful and immoral. It's also something which might not have happened otherwise without your involvement.
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UNless you go interview their mates you dont know that they are cheating, I have met for instance a lot of guys who have sex with other women with the full permission of the wife. In many of these cases the marriage has been sexless for years, I recall seeing a month or so ago a study that said that over 20% of marriages are sexless, which I think was defined as sex 2 or less times per year. My wife having sex with these guys is a service, one that both they and their wives tend to appreciate so far as I can tell.
 
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Gathomas88 said:
The difference is that cheating is pretty much always wrong.
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Trying to decide for other people what they should do with their lives is a lot more wrong. Run your own life and leave everyone else alone I say.
 
Gathomas88 said:
The difference is that cheating is pretty much always wrong. Eating a cheeseburger or smoking a cigarette is not. It's only wrong if people approach it in the wrong way.
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Eating a cheeseburger or smoking a cigarette always, but always, does a little damage to your body. Whether it's wrong to intentionally damage your body, I suppose, depends on the circumstances and the degree.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
UNless you go interview their mates you dont know that they are cheating, I have met for instance a lot of guys who have sex with other women with the full permission of the wife. In many of these cases the marriage has been sexless for years, I recall seeing a month or so ago a study that said that over 20% of marriages are sexless, which I think was defined as sex 2 or less times per year.
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If they're doing it with permission, it's not really "cheating." Now is it?

Hawkeye10 said:
Trying to decide for other people what they should do with their lives is a lot more wrong. Run your own life and leave everyone else alone I say.
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Yeaaahh... No. By this logic, we could have a freaking serial killer free-for-all as a society, and people could claim that there was nothing wrong with it.

Morality exists for a reason, I'm afraid. It's not entirely subjective.
 
Gathomas88 said:
If you felt yourself to possess a mutual attraction with someone, or were flirtatiously engaged by someone, who simply happened to already be in a relationship, would you pursue it?

*In all scenarios, assume you are single.*

Scenario 1: They are simply dating another person.

Scenario 2: They are married to the other person, or, are in such a serious long term relationship with this other person that they might as well be married.

What say you?

Personally, I would not. As to the reason why not, I'd frankly consider that to be both a matter of personal honor, and simple common courtesy. I wouldn't want an outside influence subverting one of my relationships in such a manner, so I really wouldn't see any reason to inflict the same on someone else.

If the relationship wasn't terribly serious, I wouldn't see any issue with flirting, per se. However, I wouldn't "make a move" until the person in question was rather firmly "on the market." Really... If this other person's actually interested in you on any kind of serious basis, it's the least they can do anyway.

In the case of a married person, I'd simply do my best to avoid the situation entirely.
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If they are willing to cheat with you, they are willing to cheat on you
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
And other people disagree with you and think that's a bunch of self-justifying BS that lets you pretend you somehow weren't involved in a situation you explicitly created. We're allowed to think that. This is a debate forum, dude.
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I am Zen, I come into the situation knowing that humans are all interconnected, I am always involved. And yes, part of you living your own life is that you get to control your own mind, no one is trying to deprive you of that. I was speaking my mind, which is also allowed on any decent debate forum.
 
tacomancer said:
If they are willing to cheat with you, they are willing to cheat on you
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Gathomas88 said:
Morality exists for a reason, I'm afraid. It's not entirely subjective.
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Part of a decent moral code is that you dont mess around in other peoples lives without consent without a very good reason. I bet you miss that part.
 
Gathomas88 said:
If they're doing it with permission, it's not really "cheating." Now is it?
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Exactly, and again we are back to the fact that the question was poorly worded. No mention was made about whether we are talking about cheating or not. I would never cheat, I dont want to be with anyone who cheats, and I am leary of hooking up with a cheater because of the blowback drama risk. I also almost always advise against cheating when asked for my opinion.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I am Zen, I come into the situation knowing that humans are all interconnected, I am always involved. And yes, part of you living your own life is that you get to control your own mind, no one is trying to deprive you of that. I was speaking my mind, which is also allowed on any decent debate forum.
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Yeah, and then telling other people they can't speak theirs, or they're somehow oppressing you. :roll:
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Exactly, and again we are back to the fact that the question was poorly worded. No mention was made about whether we are talking about cheating or not. I would never cheat, I dont want to be with anyone who cheats, and I am leary of hooking up with a cheater because of the blowback drama risk. I also almost always advise against cheating when asked for my opinion.
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Seeing as how, by definition, the arrangement you're describing is not "cheating," it should simply be assumed that it was not what the OP was talking about.
 
Gathomas88 said:
Seeing as how, by definition, the arrangement you're describing is not "cheating," it should simply be assumed that it was not what the OP was talking about.
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You cant even assume that having sex with others with the permission of your mate is not cheating. A lot of people dont agree with that statement. Hell, some women think that their man looking at another woman for too long is cheating.

May I suggest another go, this time with a better worded question?
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Your repeated whining that people disagreeing with you on the internet are trying to "run your life."
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I never said nor meant to say that. You are smashing up two of my themes that dont go together, and getting a garbage result

1) All humans should be allowed to run their lives without outside interference unless there is a very good reason to get into their face.

2) When I am at a debate forum I tend to argue my point of view, I tend to test out my arguments so that I can see if I am right, because I believe that civilization depends upon a function arena for the combat of ideas..... so yes, I disagree with people, sometimes vehemently.

It is never personal though, it is never about me, You can choose to ignore what I am telling you now and go with your fantasy instead, you are in charge of you, but you will be wrong if you do.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I never said nor meant to say that. You are smashing up two of my themes that dont go together, and getting a garbage result

1) All humans should be allowed to run their lives without outside interference unless there is a very good reason to get into their face.

2) When I am at a debate forum I tend to argue my point of view, I tend to test out my arguments so that I can see if I am right, because I believe that civilization depends upon a function arena for the combat of ideas..... so yes, I disagree with people, sometimes vehemently.

It is never personal though, it is never about me, You can choose to ignore what I am telling you now and go with your fantasy instead, you are in charge of you, but you will be wrong if you do.
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You said exactly that, quite literally. Several times.

No one is arguing you can't do any of that. The problem is that you apparently think you're the only one who's allowed.

And furthermore, people having a right to run their own lives doesn't mean that others aren't allowed to have thoughts about it, especially when you intentionally subject it to their opinions by airing it publicly. Yeah, you can make crappy and inconsiderate decisions. No one's stopping you. But if you get on a debate forum and announce that you make crappy and inconsiderate decisions, don't act surprised when people call it what it is.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
But if you get on a debate forum and announce that you make crappy and inconsiderate decisions, don't act surprised when people call it what it is.
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I was not aware that anyone was.

Are you ready to move on now?
 
I wouldn't pursue someone in a relationship as I think that the relationship itself needs to be respected. Now, if they tell me that the relationship hasn't been going well and it's about to be kaput in a week or so...
 
If they're just dating then I might make a move. But if it is remotely serious then I stay away.
 
Gathomas88 said:
If you felt yourself to possess a mutual attraction with someone, or were flirtatiously engaged by someone, who simply happened to already be in a relationship, would you pursue it?

*In all scenarios, assume you are single.*

Scenario 1: They are simply dating another person.

Scenario 2: They are married to the other person, or, are in such a serious long term relationship with this other person that they might as well be married.

What say you?
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Scenario one yes, scenario two no.

Personally, I would not. As to the reason why not, I'd frankly consider that to be both a matter of personal honor, and simple common courtesy. I wouldn't want an outside influence subverting one of my relationships in such a manner, so I really wouldn't see any reason to inflict the same on someone else.
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If you are with the right person nobody could inflict this scenario on you. If they do, count your blessings.

I can't do the married scenario. I would feel too guilty breaking up a marriage. Without vows I don't think I would feel that same guilt. If they are the one and not married I'd absolutely try.

If the relationship wasn't terribly serious, I wouldn't see any issue with flirting, per se. However, I wouldn't "make a move" until the person in question was rather firmly "on the market." Really... If this other person's actually interested in you on any kind of serious basis, it's the least they can do anyway.
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If they aren't in a serious relationship they are in the market. I've dated several people at the same time. None of those were serious. I was shopping.

In the case of a married person, I'd simply do my best to avoid the situation entirely.
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I have been in that situation. It wasn't because I did anything or sent any messages. It just literally reached out and grabbed me.
 
Gathomas88 said:
If you felt yourself to possess a mutual attraction with someone, or were flirtatiously engaged by someone, who simply happened to already be in a relationship, would you pursue it?

*In all scenarios, assume you are single.*

Scenario 1: They are simply dating another person.

Scenario 2: They are married to the other person, or, are in such a serious long term relationship with this other person that they might as well be married.

What say you?
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Since you make no mention of any other details, I do feel free to run with this a bit.

The difference between the two scenarios makes no difference. Since you mention relationship, vice sex, I would be asking if they were in a poly relationship. Were I only looking for sex then the question would be are they in either an open or poly relationship. If the answer is no, then I would not pursue anything serious. I already do list flirting with a number of people, and I make sure they understand it is for the fun of it and not serious, so further flirting is not out of the question. Assuming that the other person answers in the affirmative to open or poly, my next step would be to meet and hear from the significant other, directly, that they are in this type of relationship and is alright withy perusing a relationship or sex with their partner.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
Why would any libertarian not approve?
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There is a difference between what a libertarian might approve of for personal behavior and what they believe should be allowable under law. A libertarian does not have to believe in polygamy personally to believe, as a general rule, that it should be legally allowed.
 
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