• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Failure of the Family Widens America’s Economic and Cultural Divides

Harry Guerrilla said:
Ok, I don't really know where you're going with this.
I've lived in both city and rural environments in Georgia.

Things you discover, most adults, no matter how religious they profess to be here have done all those things aside from spawning fatherless families.
Of course what people are quick to ascribe to the Whites that live here, they forget that we're more racially diverse than most of the rest of the states and the fatherless child homes could easily be attributed to the African American population.

Not that it's a good excuse, we should still be addressing it as a problem.
Click to expand...

Not wearing condoms seems to be a bigger problem among some ethnic groups than others.
 
americanwoman said:
What might be interesting to note is the highest rates are in the South where they also have high teenage pregnancy rates. I could imagine that a lot of those teenagers are pressured to get married, being religious and all, and I think young marriages are the hardest to endure since your basically still growing up and don't know yourself that well and add a baby to the young marriage mix and your screwed.
Click to expand...

Harry Guerrilla said:
I've lived in the South all my life.
Just my view on it but I've never really seen some huge movement among the locals to pressure people into marriage.

The religiousness here is often perceived as more strict than it really is (generally just a hyperbolic stereotype imo).
Ideologically, a lot of people here are religious, effectually that's often not the case though.
Click to expand...


Yeah... And not to be "anti-P.C.," or anything, but most of those teen pregnancies come from the massive minority population down here, who aren't likely to marry to begin with.
 
Riveroaks said:
What are the Conservatives conserving, CP ??
Click to expand...

That's an excellent question. In this country, the notion of classic liberal government and the strong social knitting that is required to make it work.
 
Nilly said:
Amazing how conservatives espouse the values of liberty and freedom only to suggest we should all conform to their specific ideals of family and the home.
Click to expand...

When you step out of the social convention of being one political fan or another, you can start to see the benefits offered by many different lines on reasoning.
I for one am not religious but I do see the benefit of religion, providing a speed bump, from easy divorce over petty differences.

Most here aren't advocating an absolute but a strong preference.
A 2 parent household is statistically superior to a single parent household.
 
Gathomas88 said:
divorce3.jpg


Again, a lot of sources try to pull a fast one on this, by only quoting the "ever divorced" figures, which make the non-religious come off better. They don't account for the fact that atheists and agnostics are a lot less likely to marry to begin with, and hence, naturally, would have a smaller overall number.

divorce2.jpg


"Statistics don't lie, but liars use statistics."
Click to expand...

It's also worth noting that, even within these categories, the numbers differ if one takes the further step of differentiating the "devout" from the "in the name only" Christians.

Church going Conservative Catholics, for example, have substantially lower divorce rates than their Liberal peers. Devout Evangelical Protestants are about on par with them.
 
Luftwaffe said:
Yeah, it could accomplish trampling the **** out of the constitution, which we do enough of anyways, might as well not go any furhter if we can.
Click to expand...

It.s never been done as a nation. What we have now is chaos and anarchy.
 
Dragonfly said:
"Successful marriage" doesn't require religion, and it certainly doesn't require being "being strongly pro-life/pro family/traditional marriage and being a staunch Bible believing Christian or other faith".

Also - back in the good old days, there was still a great deal of dysfunction, abuse, subjugation, and general bad stuff happening inside the homes of many.
Click to expand...

How do you know...been married for 50 years?
 
WCH said:
It.s never been done as a nation. What we have now is chaos and anarchy.
Click to expand...

We do not have "chaos and anarchy," we still have a functioning government even if you disagree with those in charge of it or their policies enacted from it at the moment.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
When you step out of the social convention of being one political fan or another, you can start to see the benefits offered by many different lines on reasoning.
I for one am not religious but I do see the benefit of religion, providing a speed bump, from easy divorce over petty differences.

Most here aren't advocating an absolute but a strong preference.
A 2 parent household is statistically superior to a single parent household.
Click to expand...

An incredibly minor, if existent at all, speed bump. I'm not sure which statistics to trust in the thread but half seem to suggest religious couples get divorced more, whilst half suggest they get divorced less. In any case, the scenario whereby 'no religious affiliation' couples divorce more it is by a couple of percentage points, hardly significant.

I agree that statistically 2 parents are better than one, but that is a different thing to saying the traditional family is better than the non-traditional family, which is the ideal most social conservatives generally strive for. Gay parent households, 3 or 4 parent households, cohabited households, multi generational households can all work in varying contexts and situations. Just because the nuclear family is in decline doesn't mean that we should pressurize ourselves to go back to it in order to get things back on track, it means we should look forward and adapt. The author in the OP says there is no common American experience any more. I consider that a necessary consequence of a free society.
 
Gathomas88 said:
divorce3.jpg


Again, a lot of sources try to pull a fast one on this, by only quoting the "ever divorced" figures, which make the non-religious come off better. They don't account for the fact that atheists and agnostics are a lot less likely to marry to begin with, and hence, naturally, would have a smaller overall number.

divorce2.jpg


"Statistics don't lie, but liars use statistics."
Click to expand...

Riveroaks said:
Barna report: Variation in divorce rates among Christian faith groups:

Denomination (in order of decreasing divorce rate)
% who have been divorced

Non-denominational ** 34%
Baptists 29%
Mainline Protestants 25%
Mormons 24%
Catholics 21%
Lutherans 21%


Good article, however it still looks like the truly devout have lower divorce rates -- just NOT in the US South (realm of the Baptist church).
Click to expand...


"non-denominational" does not equal atheist/agnostic.

You may wish to actually read rather than just look at pictures.

** Barna uses the term "non-denominational" to refer to Evangelical Christian congregations that are not affiliated with a specific denomination. The vast majority are fundamentalist in their theological beliefs.
Click to expand...


:2wave::lamo
 
David_N said:
It's a great help?
What 'War on Marriage?' Divorce Rates Are Highest Among Evangelicals | Alternet
Being pro life and wanting to force women to give birth tramples over the constitution. Pro family? Pro family is wanting mothers to have family leave, paid vacation, childcare programs.. All pro life wackos want to do is control their bodies. Pro marriage? Yes, I am pro marriage, regardless of male or female. Unlike bigoted conservatives who cry like babies when they see a gay couple making out.
Click to expand...

You sound bitter
 
Nilly said:
An incredibly minor, if existent at all, speed bump. I'm not sure which statistics to trust in the thread but half seem to suggest religious couples get divorced more, whilst half suggest they get divorced less. In any case, the scenario whereby 'no religious affiliation' couples divorce more it is by a couple of percentage points, hardly significant.
Click to expand...

Well it still stands the point that they seem to fair better.
It's rather unfortunate that bigoted attitudes exist all around (anti religious and religious), because while I'm not religious I do recognize wisdom regardless of where it comes from.

Nilly said:
I agree that statistically 2 parents are better than one, but that is a different thing to saying the traditional family is better than the non-traditional family, which is the ideal most social conservatives generally strive for. Gay parent households, 3 or 4 parent households, cohabited households, multi generational households can all work in varying contexts and situations. Just because the nuclear family is in decline doesn't mean that we should pressurize ourselves to go back to it in order to get things back on track, it means we should look forward and adapt. The author in the OP says there is no common American experience any more. I consider that a necessary consequence of a free society.
Click to expand...

Traditional doesn't necessarily mean straight only and yes multigen housing was common, until we unhitched that by providing elder benefits like social security.
I don't see it as a free society but a manipulated one.
All kinds of programs and laws have been established, for better or worse, that alter behaviors including how households function.
 
Dragonfly said:
"non-denominational" does not equal atheist/agnostic.

You may wish to actually read rather than just look at pictures.




:2wave::lamo
Click to expand...

David_N said:
buuuuuurn!
Click to expand...

Good thing my source said "non-religious" rather than "non-denominational" then. :roll:

FYI, his source was not my source.
 
OrphanSlug said:
We do not have "chaos and anarchy," we still have a functioning government even if you disagree with those in charge of it or their policies enacted from it at the moment.
Click to expand...

What is functioning for one man..... 8)
 
Gathomas88 said:
Good thing my source said "non-religious" rather than "non-denominational" then. :roll:

FYI, his source was not my source.
Click to expand...

FYI, your source isn't anymore valid then his and doesn't prove your point. Religious people love divorce.
 
Nilly said:
An incredibly minor, if existent at all, speed bump. I'm not sure which statistics to trust in the thread but half seem to suggest religious couples get divorced more, whilst half suggest they get divorced less. In any case, the scenario whereby 'no religious affiliation' couples divorce more it is by a couple of percentage points, hardly significant.
Click to expand...

By all metrics available, people who actually take their religion seriously have substantially higher marriage rates, and substantially lower divorce rates, than those who endorse more "modern" views of love and commitment, or eschew religion entirely.

Frankly, why on Earth wouldn't they? Modern culture only barely tolerates the notion of marriage and life-long commitment anyway.

There's not much incentive to even really try and keep such a union together.
 
David_N said:
FYI, your source isn't anymore valid then his and doesn't prove your point. Religious people love divorce.
Click to expand...

Lol. Your ignorant appeals to blind anti-religious bigotry are the only things that are "invalid" here.

The statistics say what they say. I apologize if you happen to dislike it. :shrug:
 
Gathomas88 said:
Lol. Your ignorant appeals to blind anti-religious bigotry are the only things that are "invalid" here.

The statistics say what they say. I apologize if you happen to dislike it. :shrug:
Click to expand...
Anti religious bigotry? The facts about divorce don't lie.
 
Gathomas88 said:
By all metrics available, people who actually take their religion seriously have substantially higher marriage rates, and substantially lower divorce rates, than those who endorse more "modern" views of love and commitment, or eschew religion entirely.

Frankly, why on Earth wouldn't they? Modern culture only barely tolerates the notion of marriage and life-long commitment anyway.

There's not much incentive to even really try and keep such a union together.
Click to expand...
How the hell do you define people who take their religious seriously? Only people who follow your specific interpretation?
 
Dragonfly said:
"non-denominational" does not equal atheist/agnostic.

You may wish to actually read rather than just look at pictures.




:2wave::lamo
Click to expand...

I don't hang out with the atheist or agnostic crowd. It's not a big crowd.

My friends are mostly nonpracticing Catholics and Protestants. An occasional Eastern Orthodox too.
 
David_N said:
Anti religious bigotry? The facts about divorce don't lie.
Click to expand...

No, they don't. Hence why it can be seen that the barely religious, and explicitly non-religious, marry less and divorce more.

Simply speaking, they don't really believe in it. They treat it more as a cutesy cultural relic. :shrug:

David_N said:
How the hell do you define people who take their religious seriously? Only people who follow your specific interpretation?
Click to expand...

They actually make an effort to follow its commandments and attend religious services, for a start. :roll:
 
cpwill said:
That's an excellent question. In this country, the notion of classic liberal government and the strong social knitting that is required to make it work.
Click to expand...

Then if they are conserving "classic liberal" government aren't they liberals ??
 
Gathomas88 said:
No, they don't. Hence why it can be seen that the barely religious, and explicitly non-religious, divorce more. :shrug:



They actually make an effort to follow its commandments and attend religious services, for a start. :roll:
Click to expand...

LOL. Here we go. "Barely religious." Ah, so now you believe anyone who doesn't follow your explicit version of Christianity is wrong. Absolutely laughable.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom