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could transgenderism largley be a result of sociol conditioning?

M

MisterLogical

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_sworn_virgins There is this concept that is called a Sworn Virgin. In society where this happens the rules are men have certain jobs and girls have certain jobs. In the US this is often still believed but not always enforced in a legal sense. So woman have made some progress. I had discussions with people about this before. About what causes transgenderism and if its something you are just born with or if its a result of conditioning. Now for this discussion lets leave out people with obvious differences such as hormonal problems and hermaphrodites(For there are a number of other problems that actually can occur in these cases).

I have had this discussion with woman as well and even straight woman will gladly admit they would be much happier if they were men. That if they one day woke up as a man they would love it. These are not woman who identify as bisexual, gay, pan-sexual, trans-gendered either. The reason usually given is that men have more rights and get treated better by society. Like how if a girl has a lot of guys who likes her she must be a whore, while when a guy does it hes a hot shot. That a lot of people will automatically take men more seriously than a female.
 
MisterLogical said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_sworn_virgins There is this concept that is called a Sworn Virgin. In society where this happens the rules are men have certain jobs and girls have certain jobs. In the US this is often still believed but not always enforced in a legal sense. So woman have made some progress. I had discussions with people about this before. About what causes transgenderism and if its something you are just born with or if its a result of conditioning. Now for this discussion lets leave out people with obvious differences such as hormonal problems and hermaphrodites(For there are a number of other problems that actually can occur in these cases).

I have had this discussion with woman as well and even straight woman will gladly admit they would be much happier if they were men. That if they one day woke up as a man they would love it. These are not woman who identify as bisexual, gay, pan-sexual, trans-gendered either. The reason usually given is that men have more rights and get treated better by society. Like how if a girl has a lot of guys who likes her she must be a whore, while when a guy does it hes a hot shot. That a lot of people will automatically take men more seriously than a female.
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So much wrong with this beyond the fact that it would mean women are giving up rights for apparently no benefit when they transition to a woman.

Plus, I know very few women who seriously would prefer being a man, especially for the reasons you mentioned, since my generation has pretty much every right a man does, and sometimes more say in certain things depending on where you live.
 
roguenuke said:
So much wrong with this beyond the fact that it would mean women are giving up rights for apparently no benefit when they transition to a woman.

Plus, I know very few women who seriously would prefer being a man, especially for the reasons you mentioned, since my generation has pretty much every right a man does, and sometimes more say in certain things depending on where you live.
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How do women transition into a woman?
 
MisterLogical said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_sworn_virgins There is this concept that is called a Sworn Virgin. In society where this happens the rules are men have certain jobs and girls have certain jobs. In the US this is often still believed but not always enforced in a legal sense. So woman have made some progress. I had discussions with people about this before. About what causes transgenderism and if its something you are just born with or if its a result of conditioning. Now for this discussion lets leave out people with obvious differences such as hormonal problems and hermaphrodites(For there are a number of other problems that actually can occur in these cases).

I have had this discussion with woman as well and even straight woman will gladly admit they would be much happier if they were men. That if they one day woke up as a man they would love it. These are not woman who identify as bisexual, gay, pan-sexual, trans-gendered either. The reason usually given is that men have more rights and get treated better by society. Like how if a girl has a lot of guys who likes her she must be a whore, while when a guy does it hes a hot shot. That a lot of people will automatically take men more seriously than a female.
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You have ZERO understanding of what transsexualism is or entails. You also don't understand the difference between wanting to be the other gender because of advantages and the inconsistency between one's biological brain sex and one's anatomy that creates transsexualism. The level of lack of understanding of this issue in your post is quite staggering.
 
BTW, actual scientific studies have revealed that there is a difference in chemical make ups between the brain of transgendered and non transgendered people.
 
MisterLogical said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_sworn_virgins There is this concept that is called a Sworn Virgin. In society where this happens the rules are men have certain jobs and girls have certain jobs. In the US this is often still believed but not always enforced in a legal sense. So woman have made some progress. I had discussions with people about this before. About what causes transgenderism and if its something you are just born with or if its a result of conditioning. Now for this discussion lets leave out people with obvious differences such as hormonal problems and hermaphrodites(For there are a number of other problems that actually can occur in these cases).

I have had this discussion with woman as well and even straight woman will gladly admit they would be much happier if they were men. That if they one day woke up as a man they would love it. These are not woman who identify as bisexual, gay, pan-sexual, trans-gendered either. The reason usually given is that men have more rights and get treated better by society. Like how if a girl has a lot of guys who likes her she must be a whore, while when a guy does it hes a hot shot. That a lot of people will automatically take men more seriously than a female.
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If you want to be a woman, it's not just because you like boobs.
 
I would rather present that gender identity is primarily a social construct, not gender biology.
 
roguenuke said:
So much wrong with this beyond the fact that it would mean women are giving up rights for apparently no benefit when they transition to a woman.

Plus, I know very few women who seriously would prefer being a man, especially for the reasons you mentioned, since my generation has pretty much every right a man does, and sometimes more say in certain things depending on where you live.
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Women have LEGAL rights. That is not the issue. However a lot of men and women still believe in the old ideals and will often try to enforce them on woman and men, if these men and woman have a right to go against them or not. Its the attitude against the thing not the legal rights. So you really dont have any understanding of what the issue is here. Gays can legally be gay without being hurt for it but a lot of people still dont like or agree with it. Just because you have legal rights, does not mean you dont get attitude for going against Gender Standards. Its about how people are treated not what they legally can and can not do. I never said they did not have rights.
 
MisterLogical said:
Women have LEGAL rights. That is not the issue. However a lot of men and women still believe in the old ideals and will often try to enforce them on woman and men, if these men and woman have a right to go against them or not. Its the attitude against the thing not the legal rights. So you really dont have any understanding of what the issue is here. Gays can legally be gay without being hurt for it but a lot of people still dont like or agree with it. Just because you have legal rights, does not mean you dont get attitude for going against Gender Standards. Its about how people are treated not what they legally can and can not do. I never said they did not have rights.
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The ones generally getting treated the worst for going against gender standards are men/boys trying to dress as women/girls, not the other way around. Women can easily wear a dress or pants and not have anything said to them. Men cannot generally wear a dress and not face issues. That would say that a man has less rights than women, not the other way around. Look at the boy who was not allowed to wear makeup on his driver's license. Girls are allowed to wear makeup or go sans makeup on theirs.
 
MisterLogical said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_sworn_virgins There is this concept that is called a Sworn Virgin. In society where this happens the rules are men have certain jobs and girls have certain jobs. In the US this is often still believed but not always enforced in a legal sense. So woman have made some progress. I had discussions with people about this before. About what causes transgenderism and if its something you are just born with or if its a result of conditioning. Now for this discussion lets leave out people with obvious differences such as hormonal problems and hermaphrodites(For there are a number of other problems that actually can occur in these cases).

I have had this discussion with woman as well and even straight woman will gladly admit they would be much happier if they were men. That if they one day woke up as a man they would love it. These are not woman who identify as bisexual, gay, pan-sexual, trans-gendered either. The reason usually given is that men have more rights and get treated better by society. Like how if a girl has a lot of guys who likes her she must be a whore, while when a guy does it hes a hot shot. That a lot of people will automatically take men more seriously than a female.
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No. There are neurological markers of transsexuality. And in fact, male-to-female is actually more common. So there is no evidence for your claim in reality.

I'd recommend to those women that they start hanging out with less misogynistic people. I've never had this problem with anyone I associate with, or at work. I simply don't allow people like that to be around me.

I don't know any such women, who wish they were men for social reasons. But then, I don't have any women who tolerate misogynists in my circle.
 
MisterLogical said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_sworn_virgins There is this concept that is called a Sworn Virgin. In society where this happens the rules are men have certain jobs and girls have certain jobs. In the US this is often still believed but not always enforced in a legal sense. So woman have made some progress. I had discussions with people about this before. About what causes transgenderism and if its something you are just born with or if its a result of conditioning. Now for this discussion lets leave out people with obvious differences such as hormonal problems and hermaphrodites(For there are a number of other problems that actually can occur in these cases).

I have had this discussion with woman as well and even straight woman will gladly admit they would be much happier if they were men. That if they one day woke up as a man they would love it. These are not woman who identify as bisexual, gay, pan-sexual, trans-gendered either. The reason usually given is that men have more rights and get treated better by society. Like how if a girl has a lot of guys who likes her she must be a whore, while when a guy does it hes a hot shot. That a lot of people will automatically take men more seriously than a female.
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Of course it's a result of social conditioning. What logical rational person could possibly believe that hacking off your penis makes you a girl? :roll:
 
countryboy said:
Of course it's a result of social conditioning. What logical rational person could possibly believe that hacking off your penis makes you a girl? :roll:
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What logical person thinks biology is the last word in gender?
 
There is no real logic in this, only emotion.

Reasonable people don't go of the deep end if a person wants to change their gender.

Reasonable people don't lock us into the mentality that our gender identity and social roles is determined by our biology.

At lease in a country that is supposed to value individuality, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
 
countryboy said:
Every single one.
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CB, I'm going to disagree with you, from personal experience. You can say whatever you want, I've probably thought or tried to believe that. Guess what? It's wrong.
 
countryboy said:
Of course it's a result of social conditioning. What logical rational person could possibly believe that hacking off your penis makes you a girl? :roll:
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You're another one who has absolutely no knowledge on this issue. There are plenty of informative posts on this forum explaining why what you posted above has no validity whatsoever. I'd direct you do them, but you and I both know you are uninterested in learning about this.
 
Ancient Herald said:
BTW, actual scientific studies have revealed that there is a difference in chemical make ups between the brain of transgendered and non transgendered people.
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That maybe true, but there would still be no transgenderism at all (or barely any) if there were zero differences between the social expectations/norms for men and women in a society.
 
solletica said:
That maybe true, but there would still be no transgenderism at all (or barely any) if there were zero differences between the social expectations/norms for men and women in a society.
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i don't agree.

There will always be people who don't fit in some way, and some people have their poles in reverse to the group they're part of.

And there will always be people who are jsut not happy with the way they were born with.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Gender is how you present yourself. If you wear a long hair, dress and make up, that's public with your gender.
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So you are saying guys can not have any long hair?
 
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