Do you flirt or get flirted with? With who, or by who? (1 Viewer)

Gathomas88 said:

The issue at hand isn't being rejected. It's coming up with an approach that doesn't come off like a complete farce to begin with.

You wouldn't go into a job interview wearing a T-shirt, without having bathed in three days, and start off with a line like "Sup dude! How's it hanging!" If you would, you'd frankly be better off just staying at home.

It is the same principle here.

Yes. Obviously, my first order of business is getting her number, and preferably her Facebook, so that we can communicate.

Again, my only really concerned is keeping things somewhat timely. New Years is already a week away, and the stand might not even be here past Christmas.

There is something of a limited window at play here.

Click to expand...

justabubba said:

are you a muso?
only 2.1% of the population are INTJ's
but on a musician site i am active on, a large number identify as INTJ's


and as an INTP, i DO understand the reluctance to move forward with a relationship until everything is in place

Click to expand...

SmokeAndMirrors said:

What's farce-y about "I'd like to talk to you more. Can I get your number"? I don't get it.

This isn't a job interview, Gathomas. This is a human being. Human beings want to be with human beings. Being simple and sincere and saying you want to spend time with her is human. It is not trashy or disshelved. It's basic humanity.

So yes, the issue is rejection. You're afraid your normal human self isn't enough to impress another human.

Either you're wrong, she's shallow, or you need to do some soul searching. If you want non-shallow relationships, you need to appeal to non-shallow people. If you want to be in any relationship, you need to feel you are a good enough person that someone will want to spend time with you, or you have to be willing to work towards that end.

If there's a time limit, get her number now and do ANYTHING that isn't a drunken New Year's party where she'll feel obligated to let you get physical with her. That will come off as either intimidating, or just looking for sex.

Offer only you, to only her.

Click to expand...

Gathomas88 said:

Getting her number isn't the hard part here, Smoke. I'd have asked for it already if she had actually worked today. She didn't, so I couldn't. :shrug:

Frankly, if I were less of a socially awkward dork, I would have asked right after it happened. Unfortunately, however, I was a bit too stunned at the time to think of it. lol

In any case, the issue at hand here is what happens after that. All I'm saying here is that, objectively speaking, the prospects look to be a bit limited right from the start.

New Years simply happens to be the most obvious opportunity to present itself.

Click to expand...

SmokeAndMirrors said:

That's fine. Dork can enhance the sense of sincerety -- if you're really being sincere. If you're not, it's all the more obvious.

What happens after that is simple. Here, Gathomas: "Hey, it's Gathomas. [chat for a minute] Hey, do you want to get coffee somewhere? What are your hours like? Do you know a good place?"

This is not hard.

There are many days between Christmas and New Year's. There's even a full weekend. There is no reason you cannot do something on one of those days.

Gathomas, listen. I am a woman. I have been asked out by many men. I know many women asked out by many men. If you want to date, do not invite her to a New Year's party. She will read that as aggressive, or "fun only."

Go do something low key this weekend. Or after New Year's. Just not a party on New Year's. Anything but a party on New Year's.

Click to expand...

Gathomas88 said:

Well, okay then! I won't ask her out for New Years! Gheez! :lol:

Eh. With any luck, she'll hopefully be able to interject some ideas of her own after we start talking.

Click to expand...

SmokeAndMirrors said:

Just trying to help. You want the family life, yeah?

Lovely. Let her talk. Maybe she'll name a place she's never been. Just be nice, and be human. FFS, Gathomas. :lol:

Click to expand...

Gathomas88 said:

(Though I'm not necessarily convinced that all women would view it the way you seem to)

Click to expand...

SmokeAndMirrors said:

Nope, they wouldn't. But you know what kinds of women definitely would?

The conservative type who want something serious. The women you're looking for. Those are the women who will view it negatively.

Any woman who says yes to a party with socially mandatory kissing on the first date is about 90% certain to not be the type you're lookng for.

Click to expand...

CLAX1911 said:

Gay guys can tell who is gay. Likely they are just playing with you. Or you are sending off signals.

Click to expand...

Gringo allstar said:

Or maybe its my dashing good looks?..:lamo But seriously how can a gay guy just "know" that another man is likewise? Is it body language, metro sexual look, efeminit mannerisms? How would you just know without any conversation?

Click to expand...

CLAX1911 said:

If he is checking out men, he is gay.

So body language.

Click to expand...

Gringo allstar said:

Dude I had guys wearing bunny ears giving me whistles when I was with my wife walking down Bourbon St in New Orleans! Wtf

She still to this day teases me about it.

Click to expand...

Gathomas88 said:

"I'm going to be at X downtown for New Years, would you like to join me?" carries somewhat different connotations than "Hey, my friends and I are going to be at X for New Years, you should join us!" regardless of whether said friends happen to be there when she arrives or not. After all, if it comes to that, you can just split off from the friends in question and hang out together anyway.

I could also suggest that she bring some of her own single friends, which could carry more of a "group date" kind vibe.

Click to expand...

CLAX1911 said:

Yeah they were probably teasing you. Sounds like you were good natured about it.

If it was me in your shoes, I'd tell your wife when she gets to teasing you about it, "Yep...I'm just that irresistible."

But really I think they were teasing you. They know you are straight if you ate with your wife.

Click to expand...

lizzie said:

Maybe it's just my age showing, but for me, that would never work. If someone wants my company, I expect my company to be the ONLY company for that time period. If I were interested in something more than casual friendship, I would invite a man to a party that I was having at my house for a bunch of friends. If I were interested in something romantic and intimate, I would make that my MO from the beginning. When it comes to my feelings, I don't play it safe. I may play it slow, and it may take me awhile to fully see the entire picture, but there is nothing safe about something which is truly meaningful. When it's that important, you open yourself up for serious pain and discomfort. Imo, that's the only way to go. It's uncomfortable as hell, but it's sincere.

From what I see, younger people do the hanging out thing, then seem to pair up from that type of setting. To me, that concept is foreign. I do not want to be the one who "will do in a pinch". I want to the be one and only one who will do.

Click to expand...

Gringo allstar said:

I'm sure from a few of our exchanges Clax you might be under the impression I'm " up tight". But nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm all about having a good time, and to each there own... Merry Xmas

Click to expand...

lizzie said:

Maybe it's just my age showing, but for me, that would never work. If someone wants my company, I expect my company to be the ONLY company for that time period. If I were interested in something more than casual friendship, I would invite a man to a party that I was having at my house for a bunch of friends. If I were interested in something romantic and intimate, I would make that my MO from the beginning. When it comes to my feelings, I don't play it safe. I may play it slow, and it may take me awhile to fully see the entire picture, but there is nothing safe about something which is truly meaningful. When it's that important, you open yourself up for serious pain and discomfort. Imo, that's the only way to go. It's uncomfortable as hell, but it's sincere.

From what I see, younger people do the hanging out thing, then seem to pair up from that type of setting. To me, that concept is foreign. I do not want to be the one who "will do in a pinch". I want to the be one and only one who will do.

Click to expand...

SmokeAndMirrors said:

I don't see younger people hanging out in groups for the purposes of dating. Trying to find someone who "will do in a pinch," possibly. But not dating. And yes, people do still do that.

They just do it without much theater. There's no big production dates, or anything like that. I prefer it that way, personally -- I have no interest in inauthenticity. But you definitely do spend time with just each other, usually in a relatively sober state, if your intent is in any way serious.

Click to expand...

Gathomas88 said:

Personally, I just don't see what you're talking about. "Hanging out" has been the norm ever since I hit college.

In point of fact, I know a number of people who either met spouses that way, or are well into their late twenties and early thirties and still using it as their primary means of courtship, often paired with some form of online match making service.

The situation isn't so "cut and dry" as you're making out. Generally speaking, social dynamics have become quite a bit more complicated since our parents' generation

Click to expand...

SmokeAndMirrors said:

Yeah. Just hanging out alone, versus with a bunch of people.

The fact that so many of them have gone decades without this strategy working for them should tell you it's not a good one, and one primarily used by people who either don't understand social cues, or are kind of commitment-phobic.

Everything has worked for someone. There are plenty of people for whom getting a hooker has wound up working. Doesn't mean it's a good strategy. It sends the message that you're not serious.

Click to expand...

Gathomas88 said:

In my experience, "commitment-phobic" and "not serious" is exactly what most people these days tend to be, Smoke. :lol:

I was actually discussing this with a co-worker of mine the other day, and his immediate response to the prospect of a date was "people don't do that any more," before promptly suggesting a bar or club as an alternative.

Sooo... Yea. If I'm "confused," I'm sure as Hell not the only one. :lol:

The "less serious" approach would actually seem to be the contemporary social consensus, rather than any kind of fringe exception. This is something I tend to see reflected not only in my day to day life, but in most studies on the subject as well.

If that hasn't been your experience, so be it. However, don't try and pretend like it's something that's "just in my head" either.

It rather clearly is not.

Click to expand...

Gathomas88 said:

In my experience, "commitment-phobic" and "not serious" is exactly what most people these days tend to be, Smoke. :lol:

Click to expand...

SmokeAndMirrors said:

Of course it is. Because that's how you're playing, and you don't seem to understand that. If you play like a commitment-phobe who wants a casual thing, that's what you'll get, and that's exactly what you're doing.

In younger people who serious, "dating" means doing for informal, talking-based, or fun one-on-one things. No, people do not "date," with the big fake production of flashing money or spending 2 hours on your face. But they still do it the way they always did, in the ways that actually matter when getting to know people: one-on-one, talking focused.

You don't see it because you're continuing to play it like you're not serious, and you're hanging out with and taking advice from people who aren't serious. What the hell do you expect? That's like going to the library and expecting a concert.

I dunno, man. I'm just a younger woman who's had actual success in real dating, and therefore obviously met men who are successful. What the hell do I know, right? :coffeepap

Click to expand...

Gathomas88 said:

Ummm... No. Again, it's how most people are playing. That's what you don't seem to get, likely because you're simply isolating yourself from it. :lol:

Again, objectively speaking, just like two generations ago, roughly 80%-90% of everyone could be expected to be in a serious relationship by age 25. Today, it's more like 40%, if that. Frankly, even that figure really kind of depends on how you define a "serious relationship" in the first place.

In any case, this isn't about me personally anyway. I was simply addressing your persistent denials of the obvious here.

The less "serious" nature of today's dating market isn't something I'm simply imagining. I'd actually say that it's more common than the reverse, for most people.

Click to expand...