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Why are so many girls attracted to bad boys.

I got as far as this before I just hit my talking-reality-with-Gathomas limit.

Gathomas, you are aware we are a profoundly social, communal species and always have been, aren't you? And that we generally existed in rather small numbers?

It has NEVER been to the benefit of human evolution to be a hyper-aggressive asshole. That kind of crap got you kicked out of a tribe. And this runs right through some of our closer primate relatives too. Even bonobos will shun a rapist or an otherwise violent jerk, for example.

Even bonobos? Really? wtf.gif

You realize that bonobos are an exception to basically every rule concerning primate behavior we're aware of, right?

Chimpanzees are aggressive as Hell, and function more or less exactly along the lines of what I have described. Males among their number fight, rape, hunt, and even make war with one another.

Spare me the "noble savage" hogwash.

I know in your head you like to imagine manly men wrestling saber tooth cats barehanded and ordering around the starry-eyed wimmenz, but humans are not a caveman comic strip from the 1950's. In reality, we stayed the hell away from the big carnivores no matter how big our testicles were, and humans survived by profound cooperation because that's how you make a big brain count -- especially when you're slow and weak on your own.

Ok, my brain hemorrhage limit must be low today. I'm out.

Which is why neolithic hunter gatherers made their huts out of mammoth bones, right? :roll:

hut_mammoth_bones2.JPG
 
Even bonobos? Really? View attachment 67164992

You realize that bonobos are an exception to basically every rule concerning primate behavior we're aware of, right?

Chimpanzees are aggressive as Hell, and function more or less exactly along the lines of what I have described. Males among their number fight, rape, hunt, and even make war with one another.

Spare me the "noble savage" hogwash.

Which is why neolithic hunter gatherers made their huts out of mammoth bones, right? :roll:

Huge tribe. Of cooperating people. Hunting an herbivore. Dude. Are you blind?

:2brickwal

You're paying my medical bill.
 
Saint complex. That's perfect. :lol: I'm going to have to use that one.

There are some dudes out there who take their romantic tragedy to heroic levels, like an Irish Catholic Priest who wants tales and songs to be written about him because he chooses to be slain unarmed by the pagan Viking barbarians.
 
There are some dudes out there who take their romantic tragedy to heroic levels, like an Irish Catholic Priest who wants tales and songs to be written about him because he chooses to be slain unarmed by the pagan Viking barbarians.

Then the term martyr complex could also fit, but saint complex sounds better. :)
 
Huge tribe. Of cooperating people. Hunting an herbivore. Dude. Are you blind?

:2brickwal

You're paying my medical bill.

Okay. So, again...

A) Why are you talking about the (puny, matriarchal) Bonobo as if it were in any way representative of generalized primate behavior?

B) Who in the Hell doesn't stay away from large carnivores if they can help it, and what on Earth does that have to do with anything I was saying?

Red herring much?
 
Why are moody pricks who may or may not thrash on their ladies so popular with the ladies? I have never understood it. Have any of you? Why are moody jerks attractive to the ladies? Answers please.

The hot sex.
 
There are some dudes out there who take their romantic tragedy to heroic levels, like an Irish Catholic Priest who wants tales and songs to be written about him because he chooses to be slain unarmed by the pagan Viking barbarians.

Ummm... Wut?
 
Ummm... Wut?

Higher sense of self combined with woe is me. The rest was an actual incident involving an Irish priest with dreams of being labeled a Saint. Became more of a footnote and an amusing anecdote instead.
 
I think the most desired traits are: being interesting and someone who makes you feel good about yourself.

Does your intellectual model comport with reality? Can we observe that this is really what women are seeking when they reject "nice guys" and instead choose "bad boys?" Bad boys make women feel good about themselves? Really?

An explanation is only good if it explains what is going on. When it becomes a rationalization, then it's pretty worthless.
 
Why are moody pricks who may or may not thrash on their ladies so popular with the ladies? I have never understood it. Have any of you? Why are moody jerks attractive to the ladies? Answers please.

My impression is that's not entirely true.

Ladies want self-conscious men. It's perfectly fine when they're nice and no pricks, as long as they have self-consciousness and are secure.

The number of jerks just happens to be higher among self-conscious men.
 
Higher sense of self combined with woe is me. The rest was an actual incident involving an Irish priest with dreams of being labeled a Saint. Became more of a footnote and an amusing anecdote instead.

I was unaware of that story. Do you have a link?

My impression is that's not entirely true.

Ladies want self-conscious men. It's perfectly fine when they're nice and no pricks, as long as they have self-consciousness and are secure.

The number of jerks just happens to be higher among self-conscious men.

That might not be the term you're looking for here. :lol:
 
I was unaware of that story. Do you have a link?

Drunken bar story with history students and grad students. Didn't ask the dude's name or a book to grab from. Perhaps I'll dig around sometime. I ought to with all the random stories I've been told over beer and liquor.
 
Sorry, the language barrier. ;)

What's the appropriate term for a guy who's secure, decisive and content with himself as he is? "Self-aware"?

"Self-confident" is probably the word you're looking for there. "Self-awareness" is a virtue as well, but generally not one women are known for flocking towards.

"Self-consciousness" denotes that a person is awkward and uncomfortable in social situations.

For obvious reasons, an attribute like that generally tends to repel women, rather than attract them. :lol:
 
"Self-confident" is probably the word you're looking for there. "Self-awareness" is a virtue as well, but generally not one women are known for flocking towards.

"Self-consciousness" denotes that a person is awkward and uncomfortable in social situations.

For obvious reasons, an attribute like that generally tends to repel women, rather than attract them. :lol:

Thanks for clearing that up! Never too late to learn more! :D

So, what I wanted to say is that in my impression, it's rather self-confidence that appeals to woman than being a "bad boy". It's just that the number of "bad boys" is higher among self-confident guys.
 
Thanks for clearing that up! Never too late to learn more! :D

So, what I wanted to say is that in my impression, it's rather self-confidence that appeals to woman than being a "bad boy". It's just that the number of "bad boys" is higher among self-confident guys.

Ironically, they are often so "self-confident" precisely because they lack "self-awareness." :lamo
 
Thanks for clearing that up! Never too late to learn more! :D

So, what I wanted to say is that in my impression, it's rather self-confidence that appeals to woman than being a "bad boy". It's just that the number of "bad boys" is higher among self-confident guys.

There is also the issue of how dominance is displayed and men who express behaviors which signal dominance plays a big part in attracting female attention.

This guy doesn't fit the bill:

Pajama-Boy-copy.jpg
 
Does your intellectual model comport with reality? Can we observe that this is really what women are seeking when they reject "nice guys" and instead choose "bad boys?" Bad boys make women feel good about themselves? Really?

I covered several points - mainly these:

1) People who think they are (or who other people think of as) nice guys might not be nice guys.

2) People who think they are (or who other people think of as) bad guys might not be bad bad guys.

^ That's all I said in regard to good-guy / bad-guy.
_____

Then came this next point which is about attraction and relationships in general:
"I think the most desired traits are: being interesting and someone who makes you feel good about yourself."

People tend to be drawn to other people who make them feel good about their selves. This, here, has absolutely nothing to do with whether someone is a 'good guy' or a 'bad guy' - this has to do with how person A treats the person B and makes person B feel.

If you do not agree with that point then you are you saying that people are drawn to people who make them feel bad about their selves? (And this is not true at all. Very few people are attracted to someone when that person makes them feel bad about their self)
_____

This next part relates to your point: Can a 'bad guy' make someone 'feel good'.
Yes - yes they can. Why can't they? Why not? Why can't a girl be head over heels for a 'bad guy' and he make her feel really good about herself? (Why? Because he robbed a liquor store? Because he and his granny don't get along? Is that the way he treats his girlfriend? It might not be. Maybe she's his angel and he worships the ground she walks on)

Example: the movie Natural Born Killers.

Both Mickey and Mallory Knox are bad people.
Yes.
Very bad.
But they make each other feel good.
Mainly, in the beginning of their relationship, Mickey makes Mallory feel good even though he is the bad boy.

We think of him as a bad boy. She does not think of him as a bad boy - he is her nice guy because he saves her from a ****ty life.

It's all relative and it depends on what is considered 'nice guy / bad guy' and who is drawing the conclusion, what their personal view is.
 
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I covered several points - mainly these:

1) People who think they are (or who other people think of as) nice guys might not be nice guys.

2) People who think they are (or who other people think of as) bad guys might not be bad bad guys.

^ That's all I said in regard to good-guy / bad-guy.
_____

Then came this next point which is about attraction and relationships in general:
"I think the most desired traits are: being interesting and someone who makes you feel good about yourself."

People tend to be drawn to other people who make them feel good about their selves. This, here, has absolutely nothing to do with whether someone is a 'good guy' or a 'bad guy' - this has to do with how person A treats the person B and makes person B feel.

If you do not agree with that point then you are you saying that people are drawn to people who make them feel bad about their selves? (And this is not true at all. Very few people are attracted to someone when that person makes them feel bad about their self)
_____

This next part relates to your point: Can a 'bad guy' make someone 'feel good'.
Yes - yes they can. Why can't they? Why not? Why can't a girl be head over heels for a 'bad guy' and he make her feel really good about herself? (Why? Because he robbed a liquor store? Because he and his granny don't get along? Is that the way he treats his girlfriend? It might not be. Maybe she's his angel and he worships the ground she walks on)

Example: the movie Natural Born Killers.

Both Mickey and Mallory Knox are bad people.
Yes.
Very bad.
But they make each other feel good.
Mainly, in the beginning of their relationship, Mickey makes Mallory feel good even though he is the bad boy.

We think of him as a bad boy. She does not think of him as a bad boy - he is her nice guy because he saves her from a ****ty life.

It's all relative and it depends on what is considered 'nice guy / bad guy' and who is drawing the conclusion, what their personal view is.

Eh. People keep telling me that I'm a "nice guy." I'm not necessarily sure if I believe them though. :lol:
 
Thanks for clearing that up! Never too late to learn more! :D

So, what I wanted to say is that in my impression, it's rather self-confidence that appeals to woman than being a "bad boy". It's just that the number of "bad boys" is higher among self-confident guys.

I don't think the bolded is truly the case. I think that many of the "bad boys" may appear to be self-confident in certain mannerisms, but I think it's really just a façade to cover up an actual lack of self-esteem.
 
"Self-confident" is probably the word you're looking for there. "Self-awareness" is a virtue as well, but generally not one women are known for flocking towards.

"Self-consciousness" denotes that a person is awkward and uncomfortable in social situations.

For obvious reasons, an attribute like that generally tends to repel women, rather than attract them. :lol:

I'm attracted to the self-conscious, because I identify with them. :lol:
 
I'm attracted to the self-conscious, because I identify with them. :lol:

You're not alone... I know many girls in my environment who are into "complicated" guys (which maybe is a mix of self-consciousness, yet being "interesting"?). And that's often just as fatal as being into "bad boys" ... :D

And I also don't think that physical dominance is that important. Now of course, there is a number of women who is into that kind of thing, but in my environment, the macho-bodybuilder type is rather ridiculed by many women, while the slightly androgynous, hipster-indie-rock type of guy is all the rage. :p
 
I'm attracted to the self-conscious, because I identify with them.

Honestly (and I hope I don't creep anybody out by saying this lol ), I'd guess that I probably come off a bit like that guy who played the Governor on the Walking Dead.

I'm outwardly pleasant and friendly enough to interact with if you engage me. I can also "turn on the charm" fairly well if I feel I've got a certain task to accomplish, and I'm actually a pretty confident public speaker as well.

However, apart from that, I'm generally kind of quiet, reserved, and - for lack of a better word - "stiff." I've also been accused of being "hard to read."

I lighten up quite a bit once you get to know me though (ya know... as opposed to flying off the handle and murdering people 'just 'cuz' :lol: ).
 
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